Steyr AUG and TAVOR Comparison

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Cowboybebop

Cowboybebop

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I've become interested in bullpups recently. Through my research I have found that many consider the AUG to be just as good if not better than the new TAVOR SAR rifle. This got me thinking - was the AUG so far ahead of its time that even the Israelis couldn't meaningfully improve on the design?

I've examined and compared both rifles - and the only objective advantages I can come up with for the TAVOR is that it comes with BUIS from the factory, has a slightly shorter OAL, and has steel fire control parts (which may not even be an advantage).

If the TAVOR is indeed not any better than the AUG, why did the IDF pour the money into R&D to design a completely new rifle, when the patents for the AUG had already expired?
 
Owning both and shooting both here is the breakdown for which is better to me at least:

Barrel: Tavor since it has chrome-lining 1/7 milspec twist added for better reliability and durability. (AUG is 1/9 and hammer forged but no barrel lining that I know of)
Ammo: AUG is picky with ammo in that it doesn't like steel-cased ammo at least on mine whereas the Tavor has been fed nothing but steel case ammo and runs it like a champ. However I am switching to brass cased 5.56 exclusively since I have had better results and reliability in my guns with it so the ammo issue won't be an issue with my AUG anymore.
Trigger: AUG stock trigger better than the Tavor to me. The Tavor one has a heavy pull and gives me bad cheek slap. I won't shoot it again until I get an aftermarket upgrade. That being said the Tavor has much more aftermarket triggers that are simple plug and play whereas the AUG has a few complex mods AFAIK. I plan on leaving the AUG trigger stock for now.
Bulkiness: Tavor feels way more bulky than AUG.
Rails: If you care about rails then the Tavor has the AUG beat but they make aftermarket rail extensions for the AUG that fit over the barrel.
Maintenance: Both are simple to take down but I give the slight edge to the Tavor.
Mags: Depending on what matters more to you AUG mags are superior but more pricey and not as common as AR mags that the Tavor takes. If you don't like spending money on mags but already have a bunch of AR mags laying around the Tavor is a better choice. However there is a NATO mod to use AR mags in the AUG but you lose the bolt hold open feature if that matters to you which the Tavor retains.
Accuracy: I haven't had time to really shoot them for accuracy but once I get the new Tavor trigger I am hypothesizing I will get better results with the Tavor.
Reliability: As mentioned above my Tavor has been 100% reliable. The AUG is reliable IF you use brass ammo.
Aftermarket support: The Tavor seems to be taking the bullpup market by storm when you have major companies like Geissele and Timney as well as others getting involved. The AUG market has been mainly stagnant. I don't see much for it especially when it has been around for a while and largely has been ignored.
Ergonomics: The Tavor wins this hands down. Better location and manipulation of everything compared to the AUG. Better charging handle, mag release is easier to use on Tavor, safety switch also easier to manipulate and feels more solid.
Sights Although the Tavor comes with iron sights I find them inferior to what can be put on the AUG. The AUG can use any AR sights. Yes the Tavor can use other backup sights but you have to use extra tall sights not standard AR sights unless you use some kind of adapter.

Overall if I had to choose between the two I would choose the AUG in its stock configuration mainly because it does not give me cheek slap despite its issues. The Tavor seems to lend itself to be better once some stock items are replaced out of it.
 
The Tavor is by no means a new design. Select fire versions have been in service for over 10 years in Israel. I suspect it has been in production for at least a dozen years.

If interest in bullpups continue, I don't see why an extremely high quality bullpup to rival the AUG, Tavor and others cannot be available for $1K or less.
 
Scott7891 sums it up pretty well...and yes, the AUG truly was that far ahead of it's time

I personally don't think the barrel comparison makes much difference. The AUg barel is excellent.

My experience with the AUG were with the first ones imported to this country. I was pretty amazed by the trigger, especially when you consider how it was a modification of the original select-fire trigger...you pulled harder to go from semi to full auto.

The original AUG, came with their sights inside the carry handle, which were an excellent ring arrangement.

If the TAVOR is indeed not any better than the AUG, why did the IDF pour the money into R&D to design a completely new rifle, when the patents for the AUG had already expired?
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The same question could be asked about the development of the M-14, when the FAL was a better battle rifle. It has more to do with politics than practicality or economics
 
The factory AUG barrels are hardchromed and swap without tools. They can be swapped hot as the release and grip are both plastic.

I've had a couple instances where crap Russian ammo was causing short stroking when it is cold out. On the AUG you can turn the gas to adverse to get more force on the op rod. You can also turn the gas regulator to 'off' if desired, say for training/teaching.

The AUG has a forward assist function built into the charging handle for positive closing if you do a chamber check. The charging handle also folds to prevent damage if the rifle is dropped on its side.

The mag release on the AUG is well shielded against accidental release, but is still very easy to get to. The AUG mags are an excellent design, having over insertion stops molded in and locking with a stationary wedge (on the mag) mating with a movable wedge (on the mag release).

The AUG safety works very well. If you can feel it with your trigger finger (assuming you're right handed), the rifle is on safe. If you can't feel it, it's ready to fire. It may not be as convenient for guys that flip the safety on between individual shots, but because of its location you won't try to pull the trigger on a safe rifle either.

Since the AUG's short stroke gas system is outside of the action, the recoiling parts stay very clean and stay oiled. The gas system parts are hardchromed, with the left side op rod serving as a reamer for the gas regulator.

The AUG hasn't changed all that much since it was introduced in the mid-70's. Steyr got it right the first time.

The Tavor isn't a bad rifle, and it can be completely converted for left hand action. You can't flip the AUG's CH to the other side and you can't flip the safety either.

BSW
 
Scott is slightly mistaken with the barrels, the AUG uses a chrome lined, hammer forged FN barrel, which are literally, some of the best barrels you can buy. Although, the rest of the analysis is good. And since it has a 1/9 twist, it will group 55gr bullets a little better than the tavors 1/7 (but I think you can just swap the barrel for a 1/9 after you buy the tavor).
 
the isrealis pride themselves on unique designs. their MBT is probably one of the most sophisticated battle tanks in the world, the Galil was essentially a nato standard AK47 with ambidextrous controls. isreal likes being top gun with weapons R&D. even if it has no advantage over the aug(I've read a number of reports that say the trigger is far superior on the tavor, and optics are easier to work with on the tavor), it's still something that can be attributed to isreali craftsmanship and generates revenue for isreal.
 
The simplicity of the Aug is what sold me.(plus a great price!) Yes the barrel is chrome lined.
Take it apart in 30 seconds with no tools. Cleaning is a breeze. Take out the gas piston clean it Maybe clean the barrel. Done. A few drops of oil and it's lubed;)

The gun is extremely accurate.

Can not comment on the Tavor never shot one.
 
The AUG market has been mainly stagnant. I don't see much for it especially when it has been around for a while and largely has been ignored.
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Until the last year or so, weren't AUGs basically unavailable, aside from occaisional MSAR/other clones? The A3 variant we see now really does compare well with other "modern" polymer short stroke guns like the SCAR or FS2000 (among a host of others, these days). We seem to forget that before the SCAR made it cool to be a 2000$ tactical rifle, few would justify dropping that much on a polymer anything. Even now, the Tavor's thousandish price makes it an order of magnitude more popular.

TCB
 
I also should have been more clear I have an AUG A3. Also these are just my observations based on my experiences and what other gun owners may prefer not a objective judgment on which is better.

9mmepiphany- The barrel issue is if someone likes shooting heavy grain ammo in the 1/7 twist. Me personally I have no problem with 1/9 but some shooters do.

briansmithwins I heard mixed things on whether the barrel was chrome or not. Some saying that they are and others they are not depending on when it was made. Mine was made in 2013 or earlier and it is VLTOR if that makes a difference.

I also switched the gas setting to adverse and it still would not function with steel ammo and it was also making ammo dents on the side of my stock far back from the ejection port.

The safety itself I have no problem with on the AUG I just like the Tavor one better. Personal preference.

Also the mag release thing while secure however is awkward for me to use. Maybe from my small hands and fingers but I am used to drop-free mags or mags you grab close to the top to release. On the AUG I have to shift my grip towards the bottom while depressing the button at the same time for it to release which I find very awkward. The Tavor mirrored what I was used to so I like it better.

Kanzenbach1 Were the AUG A3 barrels always chromed? Mine does not look to be. I thought I had a Steyr barrel?

barnbwt AFAIK I am sure the A3 has been around since 08/09 but Steyr was using Sabre Defense instead of VLTOR. Then you had the BATFE shutting down Sabre which took the AUG off the market until about I want to say either 2011-2012 when they came back using VLTOR.

Yea before the A3 you had the MSAR series but they were proprietary in many regards refusing to open their modified design to the aftermarket seeing as how there was very little of it. Before that even you had the original and A2 AUG's but again I never heard of any mainstream domestic companies coming out with anything for them.

Then once the Tavor came out the gun market made it sound like it was the next coming of Jesus like there was no other bullpups that existed or that were any good before the Tavor came. I bought a Tavor not because of them but because I genuinely wanted a Tavor. I blame video games for the influence :D.
 
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The mag change technique for the AUG that I use is to run my left hand back until my open fingers hit the front edge of the mag. My thumb hits the mag release as I grip the mag. I can either drop it or retain it, depending on circumstances.

I think the Tavor is easier to switch to if you're used to the M16/M4 series. Kind of like how the SCAR's manual of arms matches the M4's except for the location of the CH.

BSW
 
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"Then once the Tavor came out the gun market made it sound like it was the next coming of Jesus like there was no other bullpups that existed or that were any good before the Tavor came. I bought a Tavor not because of them but because I genuinely wanted a Tavor. I blame video games for the influence."
Israeli weapons have that effect on Americans, for some reason. Never quite understood it, myself, seeing as they are no better at bringing out designs than the other big gun nations we're exposed to (Belgian, German, Czech). I suspect quite a few folks now believe Heston held off the Egyptians with dual Galils and DEagles in that movie, though, hence the popularity :p. People seem to have already forgotten the fiasco that was the DROR; the Israeli's have had their share of turkeys, too :D

TCB
 
Scott7891, I think I may be wrong about the FN part, but all of the A3 barrels should be chrome lined.
 
I owned an original AUG back in the late 80's when I was in the Army. Really liked it but then Bush 41 stopped their importation and prices tripled... I sold it and bought several other things with the money.

When the MSAR's were on sale at Bud's for something like $1100, I bought one. Maybe I got lucky but mine works just fine. Uses standard AUG mags that I prefer. 20" barrel so I get full size ballistics in a package smaller than a 16" AR. I swapped out the integral optic for a Burris, modified the trigger, few other small things. I'm not selling mine and wish I had bought two. My only real regret about it being an MSAR is that the barrels don't interchange with Steyr's. Mine actually seems like a nice barrel but I would love to have a quick swap 16" one. Actually I would love to have a 14.5" barrel with fixed muzzle device. It is possible and a few have been sold or made that way. Then you REALLY have a short rifle.

Gregg
 
Nice analysis Scott. I think that the Israelis will do with the Tavor what they did with the Galil. They will use small amounts for their Army but continue to use the M-16's which they get free from the US and mainly sell the Tavor for the international market. I handled one a few weeks ago in a LGS. They are very handy and ergonomic. IF I had a couple of thou to throw to the winds I would buy one, but like I predict the IDF will do, I will stick with my AR's and AK's.
 
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Hi guys and gals I'm saving my pennies for a AUG and wonder about the optic. Thinking about a ACOG 1.5x16 TA44 with Larue mount and green donut. Intended use is SHTF and home defense gun. Will use it at Gunsite tactical carbine course next year.
 
I think that the Israelis will do with the Tavor what they did with the Galil. They will use small amounts for their Army but continue to use the M-16's which they get free from the US and mainly sell the Tavor for the international market.
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From what I've gathered around the web the IDF is switching their active units to Tavors. New conscripts get issued Tavors and use them through their enlistments. The M16s are being retained as war reserve for mobilized troops (who trained with them when they were active).

Plus IWI is marketing the Tavor heavily for foreign sales.

BSW
 
the AUG M1 is an awesome rifle, they made a few updates, for example the NATO stock now has a functioning LRBHO.. unlike the tavor i can get a couple heavy barrels, some C mags and have myself an LMG with quick change barrel comparable in sustainable firepower to the M249 (assuming you could get one in FA).. thats just how much more adaptable the weapon is, and when the aftermarket picks up for it more, expect to see a bunch of caliber conversion options for them
 
Scott7891 said:
Owning both and shooting both here is the breakdown for which is better to me at least:
Maintenance: Both are simple to take down but I give the slight edge to the Tavor.
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Very nice review of the two, but giving the edge to the Tavor I just cany understand ... The barrel pulls out of the AUG by simply locking back the bolt, flipping the release lever and pull it out ... you have to tear down half the gun to get it out ... I'm an owner of both as well and the Tavor is one of the biggest disappointments I've had in years.

Have you removed the redundant trigger spring on the Tavor? It reduced the trigger pull on mine from about 13 to about 7 pounds ... I haven't sold it yet but I probably should as I doubt I'll ever shoot it again ... I'm only about 5'y" and the 16" LOP just makes it totally uncomfortable ... most rifles have a 11" - 13" LOP and that extra 3" takes all the fun out of shooting it.
 
Very nice review of the two, but giving the edge to the Tavor I just cany understand ... The barrel pulls out of the AUG by simply locking back the bolt, flipping the release lever and pull it out ... you have to tear down half the gun to get it out ...
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The AUG is easier to break down to component level for an individual. The Tavor is elegantly designed to be soldier proof. IWI actually came up with something that's simpler for the individual troop than an AK.

You've got two different design philosophies going on. With the AUG, a user can and is expected to swap out barrels and change from RH fire to LH. With the Tavor, both those tasks are done by the unit armorer.

BSW
 
briansmithwins said:
The AUG is easier to break down to component level for an individual. The Tavor is elegantly designed to be soldier proof. IWI actually came up with something that's simpler for the individual troop than an AK.

You've got two different design philosophies going on. With the AUG, a user can and is expected to swap out barrels and change from RH fire to LH. With the Tavor, both those tasks are done by the unit armorer.

BSW
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yes, so unless you have a unit armorer with the tools to do the rest for you, buy the AUG
 
The AUG has features like the quick change barrel that stem from its original role as the Army Universal Rifle. The AUG can be used as a support weapon with the long barrel, bipod, and open bolt hammer pack, changing barrels every 200-300 rounds. Or it can be issued with short barrels to AFV crews and rear echelon troops.

The IDF didn't have a need for the light support weapon features so IWI didn't include them. The IDF apparently did want a rifle that the average troop couldn't break, so IWI designed the Tavor.

BSW
 
Then once the Tavor came out the gun market made it sound like it was the next coming of Jesus like there was no other bullpups that existed or that were any good before the Tavor came.
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While I don't think it's the next coming of Jesus, I've been eyeballing bullpups for over 20 years, and until the Tavor, none quite did it for me.
(Well, maybe the PS90, but only in SBR version which requires additional expense, and don't care for the caliber).

There's a lot to like about the Tavor (everybody has to decide what features are important to them), and the trigger doesn't bother me a bit, but I grew up on DA revolvers.

I ascribe to Massad Ayoob's philosophy... A light trigger pull is, more than anything else, a crutch for bad trigger technique. :scrutiny:
 
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