Stronger spring?

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Panzerschwein

Panzerschwein

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Hello all! I got to shoot my '51 Navy (Cimarron/Uberti) at the range today.

I was having about a 50% misfire rate. I am using the stock Uberti nipples on the gun, and the Remington #10 caps didn't seem to do so well on them. I used a dowel rod to make sure the caps were all seated very firmly, but half the time they required second strikes to go off. No bueno.

I decided I needed better nipples, so after looking at reviews, decided to order some Treso AMPCO nipples for my gun. I hear they work nicely with #10 Remingtons, which I have several hundred of.

A big part of the problem, I think, is my mainspring. It feels very light... too light in fact. The hammer is so easy to cock, but it seems to lack power. It just isn't whacking the nipples hard enough. I am wondering if anyone knows where I can get an INCREASED power mainspring for my gun?

Thanks all! Hopefully I can troubleshoot this gun and make it more reliable. Despite the misfires, it was still plenty of fun and I can't wait to go shooting next, just need to make sure the gun goes off more often.

Thanks! :)

Cooldill
 
Get a Pietta 1851 Navy spring from VTI. Cheaper than Wolff. IMO, you will have no problems! I have a Pietta 1851 Navy [CM] 2014 and a Pietta G&G [CN] 2015 and have no problems.

Jim
 
Did you talk to Mike about it? Try Remington #11s with the shorter skirt.

Mike did mine too and it's 100% with Tresos and Remington # 10s, with a very light hammer pull.
 
dickydalton said:
Did you talk to Mike about it? Try Remington #11s with the shorter skirt.

Mike did mine too and it's 100% with Tresos and Remington # 10s, with a very light hammer pull.
Click to expand...
Yeah I've talked to him about it, mine is not reliable! I am going to try the new Treso nipples and want to try a stronger spring. I think mine is light enough that the hammer still rebounds, despite the cap rake.
 
I used cci #11s with it and it seemed fine.
You may try some new nips, the spring tension really should be fine.

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks
 
You don't need a stronger spring.
You need nipples that fit your caps.
When you hit the cap the first time, you were seating it. The second hit sets it off.
Italian nipples are not very good.
Treso or Slix nipples with Remington #10 or #11 caps will make all your ignition problems go away.
Those of us who shoot cap guns at cowboy action matches know this.
It is the standard.
I've not tried Track of the Wolf stainless steel nipples, but I hear from Larsen Pettifogger that they are the equal of Treso & Slix.
You want your cap guns to be reliable?
Follow this advice.
Mine are as reliable as cartridge guns.
--Dawg
 
Thanks so much gang! I've got a set of Tresos coming. Hopefully this cures the problem. I'll report back next weekend!
 
cooldill I hope it works out as I have a brass 58' Remington 44 and mine the spring is really strong I wish it was a little lighter and that goon would work mine over but for some reason he won't but I like this pistol! :) I don't run it hot but only 20gr 3f bp with 35gr cornmeal for a filler and mine shoots great, and soon will be a 51' colt soon coming... :)
 
Well holy cow!! I just read another thread that said I wasn't interested in working on brass Remington revolvers. I totally missed that the few times I looked through that thread (about if brassers are worth fixing).
I must have missed an email or phone call?
Anyway, I don't not work on anything. If it is worth it to you to have any S.A. tuned, I'd be glad to tune it for you. I always have brass Colt type revolvers here to work on. Hmmmm.

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks
 
Italian nipples work just fine (I did not replace the stock nipples on my Uberti or Hege-Uberti Remingtons). The problem is the mainspring, a percussion cap needs a good whack to set it off, and if the spring is defective (too light) or you back out the tension screw, you won't get positive ignition.

If you take a Remington and back out the tension screw - just bring a screwdriver to the range - you'll see that you do need a good amount of pressure to reliably set off caps.

Plus, a stiff mainspring means hammer moves down faster, improving lock time, a good thing. Of course don't want to get into mack truck territory as that'll wear things unecessarily, but light is not a good thing on a cap and ball gun.
 
Branko,
Light on a C&B is awesome! All mine get a 3 1/2 to 3 3/4 pound hammer draw and I use #11 cci caps to test. I've lightened some as much as 3 pounds and have perfect ignition. Depending on the nipples themselves ( none are exactly the same all the time).
Light hammers make a SA much more pleasant and easier to handle and competition guns get half their hammer faces diminished so just one side does the "smacking"!! And it smacks them better than a factory "truck spring " main spring. I say it's combo of caps/ nipps.

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks
 
You might also want to read Kit Ravenshear's booklet on springs and afterward modify your spring.
 
Well, if you work on the hammer, logically a lighter hammer (perhaps polished also to remove any causes of friction) would work with a lighter mainspring. You know, you really ought to write that book on revolver smithing!

When I experimented with the tension screw, with a stock hammer, lightening the hammer pull to something like 3 pounds did not work on my guns, not even with Remington #10s, much less with cheap Sellier&Bellot caps.

Turned the tension screw back in (its about, I don't know, 6-7 pounds or so, now; requires some force but not truck like) and primers get ignited reliably. The hammer pull isn't an issue for slow fire.

That said, how and why do you modify a 1858 hammer? That sounds like an interesting modification.
 
I find Taylors and company is cheaper than VTI. If you order one small part and call them up you can get cheaper shipping.
Good luck with your '51 cooldill!
 
Branko,
It involves more than polishing. It has everything to do with removing as much of the friction the hammer has to overcome on its way to popping a cap. I won't get in to it here but, when you don't have to fight a 6,7,8 pound hammer just to make a revolver ready to fire, it makes it a much more pleasurable experience and gives the shooter much more confidence in his or her overall handling of the weapon. Most folks hear this stuff and it doesn't really register with them what a difference it would make in their shooting experience.
It's the same thing as the difference in a store bought suit and a custom taylored suit.
It's one of the steps involved in taking a $300-500 revolver and turning it into one that would rival a $1000-1200 revolver.

The mods done to the '58 hammer is the same thing done to all. It along with all the other improvements allows a light but sharp/crisp action that is built like a tank and can be rapid fired without damage. My own converted Dragoons have a less than 3 pound hammer draw. Of course, they have more mass in their hammers and they are hitting a firing pin but, to take a large gun like that and be able to cock it with two fingers is amazing. They are the finest functioning revolvers I've ever owned!

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks
 
Last edited:
The very fact that the second strike fired the caps says that it's a nipple to cap fitting issue.

If the caps are seriously undersized then you can push on them with a stick until it splits along its length and still not seat the caps correctly. What you need is either the new nipples or a size of cap which fits the nipples you have. LIkely as not if you switched to Remington #11's you'd be fine and a snug press with the dowel would be enough to seat the caps.

But since the Treso nipples are already enroute.......
 
Just to satisify curiosity, take a real close inspection of the stock Uberti nipples. I just bought a new 2nd model Dragoon last year and one of the nipples was shorter than the others and would not set off a cap. Several years ago I ordered a set of new stock Uberti nipples and I swear no two were exactly alike, either length or taper. I usually have good luck with Uberti products, but that nipple situation is my biggest complaint.
 
My 2014 built Uberti '51 does well with Remington #10s but doesn't like CCIs, #11s of either work, manual says #11s.
When your Remington #10s are forced on do they bottom out, in a pinch I have spun the nipples in a drill chuck and "adjusted" them with a safe sided file.
 
I think they are bottoming out... hard to tell. Even when pushing with significant force with my dowel, the caps still weren't going off. At least half required a second hit of the hammer. None needed three hits.
 
If the mainspring seems lighter than normal just replace it with a stock one. Only reason to go aftermarket is for lighter springs. A stock Uberti spring from VTI will fix it if the spring is the problem.

I do put Wolf springs in my cartridge revolvers for CAS but I leave my cap guns with stock springs.

All that said I do agree with it sounding like a cap seating problem if the second strikes set them off. That is usually a sign of high primers or improperly seated caps but it sounds like you've went to efforts to eliminate that so if the spring feels weaker than it should I'd swap one from another revolver or get a replacement.
 
Thanks guys, I got a replacement spring on order from Dixie Gun Works. It should be a bit stronger. Together with the treso nipples, hopefully it will solve this problem. :)
 
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