Student Killed During Home Invasion

[Matthew Temkin]

Appears this is the type of situation often discussed but rarely happens.
But it did.
In this situation a DAO handgun is NOT the best tool for the job.
I know the Nassau County P.D. carried DAO Sig 226's in 9mm--not sure if they went to 40's yet, but DAO is very likely.
I am curious as to the distance of the situation--hitting the bad guy 7 out of 8 shots suggests it was very, very close--and if cover/disengagement was a possibility.
All in all the police walked into a very dangerous situation--something we can learn from but NOT play Monday morning quarterback.
Don't mean to sound cold, but if the officer was exposed and about to be shot, he has no choice but to engage--saving the hostage is important, but not getting killed is, in this situation, a higher priority.
At least IMHO.

 

[itsa pain]

I say the cops are lying when they say the guy pointed the gun at them. they always say that when they shoot someone and have even more reason when they kill the victim, and it seems all these guys that point a gun at police never seem to get a shot off. shooting 8 times in a crowded room where the girl is inches away from the target is criminal and he should be charged that way but he might get a medal for this

 

[jbrown50]

While folks want to talk about what else the officer could have done, it is a lot more helpful to focus on what the residents could do to help.

Besides the prevention step of locking the door to prevent casual entry, there are steps that can be taken once this situation has already begun to unfold.

1. The escaping sister could have given the arriving officers an idea of what was going on in the apartment; where the suspect was, who he had with him, where the others in the apartment were.
2. The victim could have been prepared to offer the officers the best chance to get a shot, while at the same time, protecting herself.

When the suspect removed the gun from her head, she should have tried to remove herself from the danger zone. Breaking away would have not only taken her out of the line of fire, but would have distracted the suspect to perhaps presented a better shots to the officer. The easiest and fastest way to do this is to just go limp and drop to the floor. Gravity is faster that any muscular motion and very few people are able to adapt quickly to a body which suddenly changes to dead weight.

We used to practice this at work in preparation for possible hostage situations. As the hostage clears the suspect, it is the shooting officer's job to stop the threat of the suspect

This is what I constantly tell my wife to do in case of a hostage situation. As soon as she sees a break she should become dead weight to the hostage taker thereby providing a clearer shot for me or the police. The challenge will be in fighting through the fear to do it no matter what.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Appears this is the type of situation often discussed but rarely happens.
But it did.
In this situation a DAO handgun is NOT the best tool for the job.
I know the Nassau County P.D. carried DAO Sig 226's in 9mm--not sure if they went to 40's yet, but DAO is very likely.

I don't think the trigger action type has been shown to have played a part in this incident.

Whichever trigger action a person chooses, they should become proficient with it's use. In a defensive situation, as we are discussing here, there is no advantage between type as long as the user has practiced.

I'm not even talking about striker fired polymer guns, but DAO platforms like the SIG DAK, H&K LEM or Kahr. Their triggers are all easily learned and managed for excellent accuracy at speed.

As an aside, please bear in mind (to any posters who may be missing a post) that we are not discussing police tactics in this thread, but rather S&T which may be useful to a person to use in their everyday life

 

[freyasman]

I see a couple of things; keep the dang doors locked, and when someone does get in, (and the occupants are all a bunch of young folks like this), everybody scatter, and get out of the house thru any available exit. Backdoor, window, whatever; just run, get out, and call 911. I am not going to second guess the cop's actions...

 

[Deaf Smith]

The ranges were very short and the cop knew the hostage was there. No need to shoot COM as the BG's head was, well, quite exposed since the hostage was in a head lock and at low chest level.

Still lots of questions.

Deaf

 

[Trent]

If the man was coming down from upstairs, the girl probably had no evac route. Lots of houses / apartments have only one stairwell (mine included!)

But we have two egress points upstairs. It's important to have this option for fires, let alone home invasions.

How many people live in 2+ story houses with only one stairwell? Probably the majority of us.

If you "scatter" or "retreat" upstairs, that's fine, stairwells are generally considered "death funnels." (As are hallways). Great defensive posture.

... Unless you are unarmed and a 200 pound assailant chases you up that staircase.

It's likely these kids weren't old enough to even BUY a handgun, let alone possess one in New York, which has stringent requirements on handguns. Which makes most college kids easy pickings for daylight (or occupied dwelling) home intrusions. Bad guys know they aren't likely to meet armed resistance, or any resistance at all.

If you (or family) lives in such a restrictive environment, remember, a sharp knife can easily equal or exceed a firearm's destructive capability in close quarters.

"Refuse to be a victim."

 

[SSN Vet]

This story disturbs the heck out of me, as I will have a beautiful daughter going off to college in a few years... and she is quiet and reserved and not yet able to exert herself forcefully.

As a parent (who will be providing some financial input) of a future college student, I take the security of the campus environment and surrounding community very seriously.

Anybody in my shoes needs to know that colleges suppress violent crime stats, as they don't want you to be scared away (even if their track record warrants being so). And the campus PD will often downplay sexual assault, especially if it involves athletes.

Large public institutions, with a lot of students from families on the dole, situated in urban settings with high crime rates, and reputations for being big party schools are, imo, are high risk environments to be avoided, in the same way as you avoid a bar on new years eve.

And if I'm going to contribute financially to the enterprise, you're darn straight I'm going to have significant input to the school selection.