Stupid or Civil? I had to draw.

[chipperi]

The cop who took the report said it was the right thing to do. But I have been thinking about it ever since.

Yesterday morning on the way home from work it was very foggy so several cars in front of me as well as everyone behind me was doing the speed limit. I turned where I needed and a black Toyota pickup also turned. this is a 2 lane road that cuts through a farm and makes a sudden hard right hand turn about 1/4 mile into it. This idiot in heavy fog and no headlights crosses the double yellows and begins to floor it.

Now heres where the cop said I did good but I put myself in a potentially bad spot.

I straddled the lines and slowed to a stop. I stepped out next to the truck and motioned for him to roll his window down, and he did. I said calmly and not aggressively that "sir you need to slow down a little this is a farm road and most mornings the guy is parked halfway in the road feeding cattle ahead and you wont be able to see him in this fog." I started back into my truck as he jumped out of his yelling "*** boy I have probably been driving longer than you are you calling me stupid?" he grabbed what appeared to be a bat or ax handle from the seat or behind it, and walk briskly toward me. For the first time in the 3 years I have had a permit I drew and aimed. I advised him I said what I had to say and to get back in his truck and leave. Which he did.

The best part of the whole fiasco is that sharp right had turn I mentioned earlier he was going to fast and put the drivers side wheels into a deep ditch and bottomed. I drove past him and called the law and advised them what had happened. Turns out he was an out of state visitor here for the race and was DUI already at 830 in the morning. The deputy told me not to sweat it.

 

[Deer Hunter]

Glad you are ok. You did as well as anyone could have done.

 

[Louisiana Carry]

You did wonderfully.

 

[Packman]

Glad it worked out OK for you. Some people just don't take advice well.

Good call.

 

[BruceRDucer]

Hey Chipperi

One can only wonder about a world in which you cannot even "talk" to someone, even if it is with the courtesy you showed.

You did absolutely the right thing. If you were hesitant, you might have been hurt, not to mention what might have resulted to the other driver.

I'm glad to know guys like you are out there looking out for me and my loved ones.

 

[Bones11b]

Had you not advised him and he caused injury or death to another driver you would have felt much worse. Sometimes the right thing doesn't feel like it till you take into account what the circumstances may have been had you just done nothing at all. If I were in your shoes my conscience would be clear.

 

[brerrabbit]

Everyone involved is still alive and not perforated or beat with an axe handle.

Well handled.

 

[Rob G]

I say good job. It doesn't sound to me like you did anything wrong.

 

[gbran]

Turns out he was an out of state visitor here for the race and was DUI already at 830 in the morning.

You sure he wasn't one of the drivers? (just joking)

 

[bogie]

Sounds like you tried to do a good deed, and darn near got punished....

 

[Mr White]

Nothing to question as I see it. Someone comes at me with a ball bat, That's a threat with lethal force and he's definitely getting drawn on.

Actually, I'm kind of disappointed with you. You should have stopped and ridiculed and laughed at the guy when he was stuck in the ditch.

 

[scrat]

AWESOME job this thread just made my morning

 

[CountGlockula]

Wow, intense situation. Glad nothing else escalated.

Question: did you mention this to your lawyer, if the older gentleman retaliates later on? If the cop says, "no problem", I'd just want to cover ALL areas.

Just curious.

 

[Avenger]

Actually, I'm kind of disappointed with you. You should have stopped and ridiculed and laughed at the guy when he was stuck in the ditch.

I'm pretty sure the night in jail for the DUI and the damage to his truck is all the ridicule needed. The return visit for the DUI charges is going to be the icing on the cake, they can't just send the ticket in with payment on those.

 

[Sans Authoritas]

Chipperi,

What else could you have done? You were totally civil with the guy, justified in letting him know the danger of his actions, he was drunk (even though you didn't know that at the time,) and he spazzed. In this day and age, people are so prideful that they can't take charitable correction (let alone letting it slide when someone is rude or obnoxious.)

Look at it this way: if you didn't draw, were you likely to get beaten up with an ax handle? You don't know, and the guy himself might not have known. There were too many variables to take into account. The fact is, he came at you with an ax handle. It's not your job to fret about whether or not he was truly about to beat the tar out of you. It's your job to stop an aggressive act. You did great.

-Sans Authoritas

 

[The Tourist]

I had a similar event happen a few nights ago.

I was driving home here in Wisconsin. Our record amount of snow is finally starting to melt, and many of the intersections are polished ice. I was going slowly in some bad spots in my F-150--and picked up a guy on my tail.

As I maneuvered through our neighborhood, the guy followed me turn for turn. I was reluctant to drive directly home. I thought about 9-1-1, but the driver hadn't done anything accept "drive through the suburbs."

Finally I pulled over. I figured "the big bad biker" thing works sometimes, and I was no worse off facing him now then later. I got half-way to his car and he yells, "Your brake lights are out."

I responded, "No, they're not, it's a five-speed."

Why this idiot followed me several miles, ducking around turns, refusing to break off is beyond me. It's creepy. And knowing that neighborhood I might have just as well been an older woman in fear that I was being stalked.

Not to mention his safety. I've become a nice guy, but he didn't know that. What if I had been a badass biker looking to deal with stress by kicking a townie?

These problems are clearly MYOB. If he was concerned for my equipment, then call 9-1-1 and report the issue. Clearly he could read my plate number. But stalking a guy who might switch from condition yellow to orange is one stupid idea. And as a citizen I can't be calling the law every time I encounter an idiot--I'd be on the phone all day long.

These are potentially dangerous issues--for both parties. And I'm not really sure there is a correct answer.

 

[Sans Authoritas]

The Tourist,

Not for nothing, but I'd drive to a police station in a situation like that. It's almost always the safest bet. If he was cooking up a badness platter with ugly sauce, it would be better to have him bug out when he saw you enter the police parking lot, rather than chance an unnecessary confrontation. And if things went south even after you pulled into the police parking lot? You would A) Have some assistance and B) Have proven that you tried to avoid a confrontation the best you could.

-Sans Authoritas

 

[tpaw]

Confronting another driver like that is not advisable. What if he was the one with the gun? Obviously he wanted to do you harm but did not because he feared getting shot. Consider yourself lucky he was not armed with a handgun or rifle.
As for telling the police, you did the right thing. He could have turned the entire scene around and said that you were the aggressor, and threatened him with a gun, a crime know as menacing with a deadly weapon. Without any witnesses, you would have been arrested, lost your carry license, and spent thousands of dollars on a defense lawyer to exonerate yourself.
The next time, if there is a next time, just keep going and report the driver and a description of the car, with license number if possible, to the police. Let them enforce the law, not you.

 

[Jorg Nysgerrig]

So you used your truck to block the path of someone who was under the influence so you could go confront them about their driving? Sounds like you were asking for a conflict to me.

 

[Harry Paget Flashman]

You are a better man than me, chipperi. I share a sense of shadenfreude with Mr White and would have wanted to roll down my window when I passed the driver and given him a braying horse laugh.

 

[The Tourist]

The Tourist, Not for nothing, but I'd drive to a police station in a situation like that.

Oh, undoubtedly, you're right.

I was tired, I've been nursing a bad chest cold, I was on my feet on wet concrete for a full shift repairing some abused knives and I was just hungry enough to totally blame this guy for my plight.

And this sums up my feelings on MYOB. I am the victim of two attempted muggings here is the supposedly safe Peoples' Republik of Madison. (It's three times if you count the group of road-rage teenagers who chased my girl friend and I through the east side until they saw my colors.)

I could make your same argument for the guy who followed me. He's not a sworn officer or even a high school crossing guard. Highway safety isn't his job, his right,or even his specialty.

And that's the point. Granted, I am responsible for my own actions--but Sheez Louise, I have bad days like anyone else. Following me through several turns in rush hour traffic simply becomes folly after a reasonable period--which I granted him.

I even have a Harley "bar and shield" sticker on the rear window of my truck. I know I wouldn't stalk a guy who's tired, obviously headed home and undoubtedly has a type-T personality for solving his own problems.

Sometimes the best action you can take as a concerned citizen is to simply do nothing. I wonder how this would have played out had he gotten out of his car and squared his shoulders to me. It was a foolish action for him over a minor and misperceived vehicle equipment problem.

 

[SaxonPig]

You are not a cop.

Not your job to tell people how to drive. Guy turned out to be drunk. That's bad... but you didn't know that when you approached him with a gun on your person. As far as you knew he was just speeding. That is not justification for you to confront him with a gun handy.

You initiated the contact and he could have killed you and claimed that he was the victim of a road rage incident.

Your actions could be interpreted as road rage. If somebody stopped in front of me in the middle of the road blocking my passage and then got out and approached me I would feel threatened and it wouldn't be an ax handle I'd be pulling out.

You stopped and parked and walked around in the middle of the road in the fog? You say the conditions were bad with poor visibility yet you saw nothing wrong with parking in the middle of the road and then walking around in the dense fog on the road? Doesn't sound smart to me.

You were lucky that you didn't get hurt or killed. You are lucky that you didn't cause an accident.

You are lucky that you didn't shoot him and face criminal charges or civil action. You are lucky you weren't arrested for brandishing a gun.

When carrying you have to be more careful about avoiding confrontation. You sought out a confrontation. This is a MAJOR point with judges when deciding who was at fault. He could claim he felt threatened by you and grabbed the club to defend himself. YOU started the confrontation, remember? Again, YOU are not the police. Don't try to do their job.

I don't know about these cops telling you that you done good. I would have had your permit yanked. I strongly disagree with any responses on this tread that congratulate for a good job. You didn't do a good job IMO. You almost did the pooch, pal.

Next time you see somebody driving dangerously call 911 and report it. Pulling your gun on bad drivers is not a good habit to develop.

You skated, this time.

 

[Bones11b]

I still think you did alright based on the circumstances;

this is a 2 lane road that cuts through a farm and makes a sudden hard right hand turn about 1/4 mile into it. This idiot in heavy fog and no headlights crosses the double yellows and begins to floor it.

sir you need to slow down a little this is a farm road and most mornings the guy is parked halfway in the road feeding cattle ahead and you wont be able to see him in this fog."

Had this taken place in a more urban area or an area where you were not familiar with the local habits then I might feel differently. I don't think I am a law enforcement officer, therefore it is not my job to tell persons to behave safely. Yet I do live in a quiet neighborhood on a dead end road. If you drive wrecklessly thru our neighborhood most of my neighbors will step out into the road and have a few words with you. Believe me own my worst day I am still much friendlier than the little old ladies around here

 

[NASCAR_MAN]

I am going to agree 100% with Saxon on this one: ya' nearly screwed up big. You chose to initiate force when you used your vehicle to block the truck's path, and this have escalated into a shooting.

You could have honked your horn, waved and flashed your lights...I know, for I have done so myself. But..ya' chose to use a vehicle as a weapon - and this lead to using your gun as a weapon.

The next time you think about initiating force, I hope you stop and consider the tragic consequences that could result. In our society, only the police are authorized to initiate force. Please think about it.

NASCAR

 

[Kind of Blued]

I'm not buying that SaxonPig.

I may be young, but I still live by the "old-fashioned" idea that looking out for the safety of others is respectable, even if it isn't the "norm" today. Sure, its none of your business, but when somebody dies when you could have prevented it, it becomes part of your business.

Chipperi knew about a potentially deadly turn up ahead, and informed the driver, probably effectively saving his life. That is all there really is to the story.

As far as blaming Chipperi for "pulling your gun on bad drivers"... give me a break. He pulled his gun on the guy that was threatening his life with a blunt object, not the guy that was driving in an erratic manner. The situation changed. He didn't see a guy driving recklessly and stop, thinking "This guy needs to be shot right now". He offered some friendly advice that would probably save the guys life and was thanked with a threat on his life.

Maybe you aren't the best close reader, or maybe you've had enough bad experiences with people that everyone is now unworthy of interaction, even if you may be saving their life... I can't speak for you. I just find your blaming of the good samaritan off-putting.