Suit Blames Video Game for N.M. Slayings

[Phenom]

Bad parents don't always have bad kids you know. My mother is a con artist and my father is a convict. Yes I did the lie, cheat, and steal thing when I was younger. I did what I had too to survive, I'm not proud of doing it either.
Look at it this way. By the time a person reaches puberty they usually start gaining common sense.

 

[AirForceShooter]

it's always somebody elses fault.
Don't you understand that.

:banghead:

AFS

 

[GEM]

Justin - Grossman basically gave an opinion in his book which was mostly a review. He is not an experimentalist. My point is that if one looks beyond newspaper reports and Internet discussions of 'I never went bad and I played DOOM' - there is a lot of research in peer reviewed journals about this issue.

If one went to court, it could be that researchers on both sides could be called. I can come up with review and research reports from the major psychological and sociological journals on this.

The issue is not simple and it not that the games will cause all to be violent. Violence is multicausal and one might make an argument that such a game is a trigger to a disturbed person. That's one model.

If I were a lawyer or an expert in this case, it would be a deeper debate than the one we see on the surface. In fact, I wouldn't go near Grossman as an expert but called a set of folks who do aggression research.

The arguments one sees on forums really don't touch the techy debate and aren't really convincing either way. They are on the surface.

I would suggest that the serious student of the issue do a little digging. My take on the argument is that in cases of some troubled individuals violent media and games may reinforce existing tendencies or key them to specific actions. However, many risk factors do the same. Does that call for a blanket ban - no. Just as a blanket ban on sexual images would not be realistic.

Can someone make a case that might get a jury on their side? They might or might not - it would depend on the lawyers and the law, obviously.

 

[Otherguy Overby]

B.F. Skinner

GEM Justin - Grossman basically gave an opinion in his book which was mostly a review. He is not an experimentalist. My point is that if one looks beyond newspaper reports and Internet discussions of 'I never went bad and I played DOOM' - there is a lot of research in peer reviewed journals about this issue.

If one went to court, it could be that researchers on both sides could be called. I can come up with review and research reports from the major psychological and sociological journals on this.

Seems to me the main person leftists use to validate their goofy claims is B.F. Skinner. He's the one who came up with the "product of his environment" concept which is now a leftist mantra. As far as being experimental, didn't he also do sensory deprivation experiments on his daughter?

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Is MTMilitiaman implying that More Videogames = Less Crime?

Bureau of Justice Statistics
Violent Crime By Age Group and Year,

YEAR....14 and younger.....Ages 15 to 17
----.....---------------.....-------------
1993.......42, 230.....................97,280
- 1993 DOOM released .....
1994.......46,724.....................104,350

1996.......40,145......................96,347
- 1996 Quake is introduced.....
1997.......38,041......................85,412

1998.......34,471......................77,729
- 1998 Grand Theft Auto introduced.....
1999.......33,703......................69,313

2000.......33,130......................66,261
- 2000 Hitman is developed .....
2001.......31,982......................64,591

2003.......30,447......................62,088

 

[GEM]

The seminal work on the issue came from Bandura, not Skinner. Second, he didn't do sensory deprivation on his kid. His kid says he was a good dad.

As far as the environmental mantra - isn't that the core of right wing kookoos belief's on sexual orientation?

Everything in the gun world is a leftist plot, the sky is falling, Chicken-Lenin. Try to educate people - what do you get?

For those who are seriously interested beyond have a tantrum or or silly internet arguments - get thee to a database as mentioned before. There is a real discussion of the problem and factors.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Reference post 55

The release of DOOM was followed by an increase in youth crime.
The release of QUAKE, GRAND THEFT AUTO and HITMAN were
followed by decreases in youth crime.
Obviously, we need to prohibit DOOM and make QUAKE, GRAND
THEFT AUTO and HITMAN mandatory required by law.
To save the children.

 

[Fosbery]

@ the article: Utter, utter rubbish.

 

[molonlabe]

 

[GEM]

Don't be defense lawyers, guys!

 

[Justin]

The issue is not simple and it not that the games will cause all to be violent. Violence is multicausal and one might make an argument that such a game is a trigger to a disturbed person. That's one model.

Of course it isn't that simple, but if it isn't, then that brings us back to square one. Sure, *maybe* somebody who's already mentally unbalanced could be sent over the edge after exposure to violent media, but that just brings us back to square one. The company that produced the video game shouldn't be held any more responsible for the actions of a nut than Glock. Thus far, I haven't seen any actual evidence that exposure to violent media precipitates violent actions, especially in people who aren't already predisposed to such actions.

If I were a lawyer or an expert in this case, it would be a deeper debate than the one we see on the surface. In fact, I wouldn't go near Grossman as an expert but called a set of folks who do aggression research.

Then you're ahead of most anyone else. Grossman is the constant go-to guy any time this topic gets dredged up.

I would suggest that the serious student of the issue do a little digging. My take on the argument is that in cases of some troubled individuals violent media and games may reinforce existing tendencies or key them to specific actions. However, many risk factors do the same. Does that call for a blanket ban - no. Just as a blanket ban on sexual images would not be realistic.

Again, I haven't seen any actual research that I've found to be terribly compelling. Not saying it isn't out there, but I've yet to come across it. But what Thompson and other dollar-seeking moral handwringers want to assert is that the producers of these games are somehow culpable for the actions of a person who is already deeply troubled.

Can someone make a case that might get a jury on their side? They might or might not - it would depend on the lawyers and the law, obviously.

And the jury. After all, it's a common occurrence in the US for juries to award plaintiffs offensively high monetary damages for reasons that are patently ridiculous.

 

[MTMilitiaman]

Is MTMilitiaman implying that More Videogames = Less Crime?

Not really. I am mostly implying that violent video games can't be seen to influence violence among youth in either direction. The biggest factors are elsewhere and violent media is really the least of our concerns. However, as I pointed out, a better case could be made that violent video games have given youths a way to vent their frustration without commiting actual acts of violence, and are thus responsible for a drop in violent crime, than the opposite. It simply isn't logical on any level to state violent material, be it video games, movies, books, art, or whatever causes or even provides heavy cohersion towards violence amongst youths when access, quantity, and scale of violence portrayed has increased exponentially in the last 12 or 15 years, but crime amongst this age group has decreased during the same time period.

 

[The Deer Hunter]

Man, if the licencer could be sued if someone used their product as a weapon,
everything would be considered a weapon.
thats so messed up.

maybe someone shoud go GTA on their butts

 

[Carl N. Brown]

A disturbed person might be triggered to violence by
violent images in a videogame, or by the scent of a rose,
or by a change in the weather (Kathy Bates in "Misery").

Some people are stirred by the name Jack Thompson apparently.

 

[MechAg94]

What happened to blaming Bugs Bunny and the Road Runner? I remember they were blaming cartoons a while back.


The Coyote made me jump off the cliff.
Tom & Jerry made me do it!!! (that is one violent cartoon. )

 

[GEM]

Grossman may be the guy in the gun world. He is not in the research based literature. No offense but not many folks read Psychological Science, Journal of Experimental Social Psychology, Aggressive Behavior, etc.

What I'm saying is that there is a professional literature out there that could be used in trial.

If I were to get experts, it would be from that set and not Grossman as the main person.

I read this stuff professionally and there's a world of difference between Grossman's scholarly but popular box and the real literature.

I'm just trying to suggest to folks that there is a level different from the surface debate and one might be aware of it, if having to deal with it professionally.

 

[Justin]

Links?

 

[Otherguy Overby]

GEM

The seminal work on the issue came from Bandura, not Skinner. Second, he didn't do sensory deprivation on his kid. His kid says he was a good dad.

As far as the environmental mantra - isn't that the core of right wing kookoos belief's on sexual orientation?

Everything in the gun world is a leftist plot, the sky is falling, Chicken-Lenin. Try to educate people - what do you get?

This morning I talked with my neighbor who is a psychiatrist. He shares my opinion that Skinner was a lunatic.

Also, if you actually go back and read my post it said nothing about environmentalists. I specifically mentioned left wing lunatics believing in B.F.Skinner and using his "findings" as a basis for their "enlighthened" view of the world.

Lastly, regarding Skinner and his daughter: He actually did lock his daughter up in a box during the first part of her life. It was air conditioned with transparant walls. He compaired it with a crib. There still remains some debate about whether this was good or bad. His daughter can't remember that part of her life, so she assumes he was right.

By last reports, she was an "artist" in London. The rest of us can draw our own conclusions.

 

[GEM]

I'm sure the neighborhood psychiatrist would call someone a lunatic. If so, then he is not very competent.

Go get a book on the history of psych, read and then worry about leftist behaviorists in black helicopters coming to get your guns.

Sometimes, I wonder why I even bother -