Surplus Rifles

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zastros

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I'm actually getting money back from the dad gum guvmint and what does one do with spare money? One buys more guns. Old surplus guns in my case. Now my problem is, which one? I've sort of boiled it down to one of three choices.

1. Swiss K-31: very accurate, coolerific straight pull action (appeals to my love o' gadgets) However, 7.5 swiss ammo don't exactly grow on trees. I know I can reload but the more time reloading the less time shooting.

2. Mosin-Nagant (or some variant there of) Plenty available cheap, ammo too, fairly accurate from what I read. Doesn't particularly trip my trigger though.

3. Enfield (#1 Mark III) I like the looks of them. .303 easy to come by. Already have dies for this. Not sure about accuracy at range. Haven't seen many of this model around recently.

My plans for this rifle are killing paper and the occasional deer (will probably have to load my own for that). I already have a '93 mauser and a yugo sks. Collectibility isn't a particular issue for me (I'm poor). Any thoughts on these or suggestions in another direction. I have to keep around a $200+ ceiling or I won't be able to afford ammunition.
 
Good choices, all. I might be inclined to add most any nice Mauser 98 in either 7 or 8mm and the Swedish Mauser (model 96 or 38). From the three you've listed, for purposes of ready feeding I'd likely go with the Enfield as far as the relative availability of ready-rolled .303 from your handy Jumbo Mega Store just down the road, unless you got one of the Ishapore models that was chambered in .308 Winchester/7.62 or whatever chambers best in it. The trouble with those, I've read here, is that the accuracy and feeding is a little iffy.

If you can buy (surplus) ammo in bulk, the Mosins are sweet. Ugly, but then most any Russian girl over the age of 35 is.
http://www.mosin-nagant.net

8mm commercial for the 98's is underloaded a bit, out of respect for all those rusty bring-backs from the last Great Unpleasantness in Europe 60 and 80 years ago. Still, you can buy 8mm more places than you can 7.62x54R (see Jumbo Mega Store) or the 6.5x55. 7.5 Swiss....you'd better get your checkbook ready and be very nice to your UPS guy on that one.

Unless you've got all the stuff to reload anything you need any time you need it, I'd get something I could buy ammo for locally if it came to a must-have situation. Of course, I love the Swede, have a Mosin, and a 7x57 Mauser among others. Of all those, probably the most inherently accurate are the Swede and the Swiss, with perhaps a (thin) edge to the Swiss.

I'm sure your mileage may vary. Mine does daily.

Regards,

Rabbit.

"If we could just get everyone to close their eyes and visualize world
peace for an hour, imagine how serene and quiet it would be until
the looting started..."
 
I have examples of the three rifles you mention, all excellent firearms for different reasons.

The K-31 holds the same appeal for me as a mechanical wonder. I can keep myself busy for a long time just studying the workmanship and design and observing the operation of the action. I've heard consistent praise for its accuracy, but I have not yet set out to test it myself. You are correct about the limited availability of ammo and what not for the rifle. It is available now, however, so I've stocked up on surplus and Hornady's factory-loaded softpoints. Since the rifle itself costs under $100, I bought one just for a complete parts set, because they'll be hard to find if needed. The magazines themselves are about $50.

The Mosin never appealed to me until I studied its history. Now I adore the rifle and am absorbed by all the varients that may be had at such low prices. The ammo too is cheap and I've found it pretty accurate for the 100 yard maximum distances in the forested region I live in. I'll concede that the rifle is not a traditional beauty, but it has certainly grown on me. The main real complaint about the thing is its impractical safety. I just never use it.

The Enfield is my recommendation if you can find one in good condition in your price range. The SMLE is not only steeped in history but a pleasure to shoot. I enjoy plinking with it and have taken a couple of deer with my Lithgow manufactured model. I just love the balance of the rifle, too. Parts and ammo are easy to find as well
 
Benton's right about the safety on a Mosin-Nagant being a bear. I swear, some days I think I'm gonna just weld a cheater pipe to it for leverage. It might improve the looks, too, and it'd be a bonus carry handle.


Regards,
Rabbit.

The absence of alternatives clears the mind marvelously. - Henry Kissenger, "They are Fated to Succeed," Time. January 2, 1978.
 
Off Topic

Sylvilagus Aquaticus, I'm sure you were joking about Russian women over 35, correct? I know a number of Russian women over 35, my wife included, who are quite nice looking. In fact, I've been to Russia several times and few men here would believe the beauty of the women...they'll give Texas women a run for their money, and that ain't easy to do.

Granted, they've got their dogs, just like any country or state (man, Colorado seems to have its share and then some), but the stereotypical babushka (grandmother) image is just one of a long line of media fabrications. Plus, the Russian women I've met are quite learned, genteel (they don't cuss like men), and personable.
DAL

P.S. One of these days I'm going to put my CCR license to use and get a Mo-Nagant 1938.
 
If you want a No. 1 Mk. III SMLE, look for an Australian one in really nice condition. They made them longer than the UK did, until 1954, and some were imported a few years ago in new condition.

Do you insist on a No. I .303? You'll get a newer rifle and a more accurate design in the No. 4 Mk. II. Some of these have been sold in unissued condition. The trigger is usually a little better than on No. 4 Mk. I's, the rifle will be newer, and the Mk. II's were made in relative peacetime, with better workmanship than on most Mk. I's.

I recommend Winchester or Federal commercial .303 ammo for hunting, and especially like the shape of the Winchester 180 grain Power Point bullet. Be sure that the ten-round magazine is legal under the game laws where you live. (Sometimes, aftermarket 5-round mags have been sold.)

Lone Star
 
Zastros......yeah, these military surplus rifles do grow on you.....I bought a Swede M96 first, then of course had to have a British Enfield mk4 #1 long branch made in Canada....then, found a Russian MN M44 I had to have...next is the K31 Swiss.......already had a ar15, Garand, AK47, and 2 SKS's......running out of room in my safe with all the other rifles and shotguns I have........
 
My choices would be these:

1. A high quality 98 Mauser: ( not the Yugo's ). Some surplus WWII Russian captured German 98's that are basically rebuilds are now on the market.

2. A Swedish 6.5 mm Model 96 Mauser. Outstanding workmanship and super accuracy.

3. A Swiss K31 outstanding trigger pull and workmanship and accuracy. The downside is if you are not a handloader ammo is scarce for these guns.
 
I've got a Spanish mauser (7x57)[the first rifle I ever bought] and love the hell out of it. And, of course, the ubiquitous yugo sks.

Since I have a mauser I was thinking of going with something else, but I hadn't particularly thought about the swedish. I've heard about it's accuracy and just beautiful workmanship. I had some question about the punch of the 6.5 unless you loaded them REAL hot. And why not the yugo mausers?

My only reason for the #1 MKIII is that I like the looks better. I hadn't researched any further than that. (Shallow, Moi? [Oh jeebus I spoke french.])

Great, thanks, you've talked me out of the mosin nagant but now I'm gonna have to consider a mauser again.:confused:
 
Don't give up on those Mosins just yet. Might I suggest an M-39 Mosin, which is a Finnish rebuild from rifles captured from Russia during the Winter War. These are beautiful rifles. Well made and very accurate. They can be had for under $200 from Wholesale Guns and Ammo (ww.gunsandammo.com). Here's a picture of one of mine. This is a 1944 "B" barrel.

Mosin%20M-39%


Well, I've tried three times to post the picture but all I see is a red x. You'll just have to take my word for it.
 
I used to have a No 1 MkIII* Enfield, and i also used to have a Mosin Nagant M44.

I purchased the M44 first, and tried it at the range. It was fairly accurate, but it pounded the snot out of me. Ofcourse, i was 18, and weighed about 150 lbs back then, so that could have been the problem. :D The ammo was also inexpensive, but it was very corrosive, so proper cleaning was very important. Also, i did end up with a problem rifle. It would fire, but it was extremely difficult to open the bolt to eject a round. I figured there was something seriously wrong, so i returened it as defective.

In exchange, i picked up the Enfield. I enjoyed the Enfield, except that the magazine didn't load all that well, so i had to tweak it with pliers to get it to feed more than 3 rounds. The action is pretty quick, although i much prefer the action on an M96 Swede. Ammo wasn't too hard to get, but it was more expensive then the 7.62X54R. Also, its a fairly hefty rifle. I never really got too attached to it in the 6 years that i owned it, and i only fired it a few times. It was nice to look at, and it worked well, but it just wasn't what i was looking for.

I also purchased an Swedish M96. Talk about workmanship!!!! Absolutly gorgeous. Great to shoot, great to look at, but the ammo was more expensive and harder to find. But what a looker. Recoil was also pretty mild. Other than the ammo cost and availibility, the only downside i saw to it was how long it was. In the end, i realized that mine wasn't what i really wanted it to be, and i would have felt bad had i sporterized it, so i traded it and the Enfield in. Got a little more for them than i paid, and i purchased a SKS with that money.

Odd trade, i know, but man do i love these commie rifles. So i think i will probably have to pick up another M44 again soon.

Although, i did get a chance to try out a friends jungle carbine enfield a few weeks back, and i gotta say, i loved that thing. The sights were nicer than the No1 mkIII*, small and handy, easy to shoot.

I.G.B.
 
A high quality 98 Mauser: ( not the Yugo's ).
Click to expand...

Curiousity aroused--why is a Russian capture acceptable but not a Yugo? Or are you refering to the M48/M48a.

I am picking one of these up on Monday. It has no markings other than the serial numbers and a nice laminated stock.
 
Curiousity aroused--why is a Russian capture acceptable but not a Yugo? Or are you refering to the M48/M48a.
Click to expand...

Well Harry maybe I better apologize. I did briefly own a couple of these guns but sent them back quickly.

They are solid servicable , accurate weapons and they are of course 98 Mausers but you see I have been spoiled all these years by the very high quality Mausers that I have bought in the past and the Yugo's are frankly pretty crude in the workmanship department. This doesn't mean that they are not a good buy if you do not have 98 or if you want a gun that is arsenal rebuilt to like new.

You can't beat the Yugo Mauser considering the very low price but I personally will pass on them. I own too many of the really great contract guns that I have bought in the past.

I recently bought an unfired contract Czech 98/22 Persian Mauser but it cost me a lot more than the Yugo Mausers. Its workmanship is of course flawless but I paid the price for its quality and it was not cheap in price.

As far as the Captured German Mausers I have not looked at one in the flesh but some of them being advertised state that many are early war German Mausers. As long as they were not heavily pitted they would be a good buy because of their outstanding workmanship even if they were rebuilt.
 
I would go with the Finn M-39.
Mine is my favorite rifle.
In my world, I like to shoot alot of guns. If I buy one, and it turns out that the gun isn't all it is supposed to be, I part with it relatively quickly. The Finn will be around for many generations, unless the Brady Bunch has their way.
 
2. Mosin-Nagant (or some variant there of) Plenty available cheap, ammo too, fairly accurate from what I read. Doesn't particularly trip my trigger though.
Click to expand...
If Mosin's don't trip your trigger, you probably haven't looked closely at the Finnish M/39 variant. These are beautiful rifles that can hold their own against a Springfield, Mauser or Enfield.

m39s_1.jpg
 
the Yugo's are frankly pretty crude in the workmanship department
Click to expand...

But aren't the k98's German manufacture and the Yugoslavians simply refinished them, along with removing the Nazi emblems? I do have an Argentine 1909 and a couple Swedes--this k98 wasn't that far behind.
 
HarryB

From what I hear, the M48 Yugo Mausers are NOT refurbished German K98s.. The receiver is slightly different, although I can't remember specifically how.

They would be a great shooter, and worth the cheap price. I intend to get at least one eventually. I've seen pics of a few that a few online friends have, and they have potential to look awesome!

Me personally, I'm going to try to find another No4Mk1 or 2 and have it converted to fire 7.62x39, and cut it down to look like a No6 carbine. (www.pyramid.net/sia)

Then I'd really like to get one of the No1MKIIIs in 7.62x51.

A mosin and K31 are on the list, but further down. I did get the chance to shoot a buddy's K31 a while back. That K31 was a very cool action, but damn did it kick!! Can't tell about accuracy... we weren't shooting at paper that day...
 
Harry, perhaps we misunderstood each other. I was refering to the M48's and M48a's.

I also had an early Yugo that predated the M48 I am trying to remember the model number (24?)but it was a Yugo not a German Rebuild. Its workmanship was about like the M48's and it had been reblued over a lot of previous pitting.

I also have a German rebuild which was done in Yugoslavia after the war and they used all German parts. Now this gun is nice and the workmanship is very good. The side of these guns were marked as "Preduce 44" which means arnsel no. 44. it does not refer to the year the gun was rebuilt as they were all rebuilt after the war.
 
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Well here's the wild card ,and you can have your .303 too. Try looking for a P14 in .303 ( the 'American Enfield') you can find them for less than $300 (the 30-06 P17 are a LOT more) and you get good sights, good materials and accuracy. When you are done playing with the milsurp or the surplus ammo dries up they make the basis of elephant gun supreme.:)
 
I just checked for you and Auction Arms on web has the cherriest one I've yet seen with a beautiful stock and accesories for $335 no bids and 24hrs left! # 4157518
 
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