to shoot full house .357s all day long like the Model 586 , or just for occasional shooting? I saw one with a Texas Dept of Justice stamping and SW refurbed. Excellent condition in stainless steel for $ 350 . They come with Hogue grips . The price is tempting.
SW model 65 4 inch. Are these safe
- Thread starter nathan
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Brian Williams
Moderator Emeritus
Sure, just shoot 158gr or heavier,
jad0110
Member
I'd heavily limit, or completely restrict loads under say, 135-140 grains and over 1300-1350 fps. 1250 fps 158 grain loads should be fine, but the gun still isn't intended to bang away with tens of thousands of .357s all day like the S&W L and N Frames, Ruger SP101, Six Series or GP100.
A small number of K frame 357s have experienced forcing cone failures. Some suggest heavier bullets to avoid the problem but some guns failed with these, too, and at least one I know of failed with 38 Special ammo.
The vast majority of the failed 19s were M19-5s. The earlier guns with pinned barrels are far less likely to fail. I tend to suspect the problem was in the QC of the steel or the installation of the crush-fit barrels. One former police armorer told me he thought it may have been due to carbon deposits creating hot spots. He said all the broken guns he saw were filthy.
I have had a couple of K Magnums and shoot nothing but full power 125 loads in them. So far no problems. I keep them clean for good measure.
I have never seen or heard of any of the stainless guns (M65 or M66) having this problem. I think it was unique to the carbon steel guns unless someone can say otherwise.
I have had this one for over 20 years. Countless full power Magnum loads have been fired through it by me and the previous owner. So far... nada.
The vast majority of the failed 19s were M19-5s. The earlier guns with pinned barrels are far less likely to fail. I tend to suspect the problem was in the QC of the steel or the installation of the crush-fit barrels. One former police armorer told me he thought it may have been due to carbon deposits creating hot spots. He said all the broken guns he saw were filthy.
I have had a couple of K Magnums and shoot nothing but full power 125 loads in them. So far no problems. I keep them clean for good measure.
I have never seen or heard of any of the stainless guns (M65 or M66) having this problem. I think it was unique to the carbon steel guns unless someone can say otherwise.
I have had this one for over 20 years. Countless full power Magnum loads have been fired through it by me and the previous owner. So far... nada.
easyrider604
Member
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- Mar 28, 2008
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- 735
No. It is not safe for your shooting hand. Unless you are a masochist.
For the 65, why even subject a thing of beauty to such pain? Get a GP100 for all day 357 mag shooting. I would shoot mostly 38 +P LSWC in a K frame 65. Plenty powerful for almost any need. But that is just me. YMMV.
I havent jumped on getting it yet but i called few minutes ago on that same shop. The guy said he stil has them in stock .
I remember they still have the older designed hammer mounted firing pin.
BTW whats a good brand speedloader to go with these ? This will be my first revolver and price of $ 350 plus tax is so enticing.
I remember they still have the older designed hammer mounted firing pin.
BTW whats a good brand speedloader to go with these ? This will be my first revolver and price of $ 350 plus tax is so enticing.
Just browsing about this particular model before i get one, This is a video of one owner
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=58031655
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=58031655
Balog
Member
Whoa whoa whoa, this shop has multiple examples? Will they sell it interstate and ship to my FFL? Which shop is this again?
drewball
Member
the problem with forcing cones is worse with the carbon steel guns than with the stainless versions (65 & 66). i have both and shoot mostly magnums with no worries. i do try to stick to loads over 140 but have shot lots of 125's. keeping them clean is important and not just for carbon. shooting hot 125's after leading up the forcing cone isn't a good idea either. Buy it shoot it lots and don't worry about it.
I truly do not know how many thousands of rounds I've shot in my 1984 vintage 3" Model 65 and in theory a 3" barreled gun would be "weaker." It is still as tight as new and I've shot a lot of handgun matches with it through the years.
Back in the day of a lot of revolver competitions and serious competitors shooting thousands of practice rounds per week the K frames got a bad rap with those super hot 110 grain and 125 grain .357 hollowpoints . . . BUT FRANKLY . . . HOW MANY PEOPLE STILL SHOOT THAT MUCH HOT, SUPER-FAST ammo out of their revolvers, K frame or otherwise. But . . . back in the day, the gun rag writers wrote about it and now the tail is repeated as nauseum over and over again.
IF A VINTAGE K FRAME TODAY is still tight without much flame cutting, it should be a moot point!
I LOVE the M65 revolvers . . . much more so than any "L" frames I've ever owned.
Unless abused (just like any other guns) a fine K frame should outlast you!
I'm a real sucker for the 3" M65 and M13 K frames, so I'm sure I'll pick up some more during the years. What great guns they are! The 4" "service revolvers" are also well-balanced revolvers that shoot extremely well.
T.
Back in the day of a lot of revolver competitions and serious competitors shooting thousands of practice rounds per week the K frames got a bad rap with those super hot 110 grain and 125 grain .357 hollowpoints . . . BUT FRANKLY . . . HOW MANY PEOPLE STILL SHOOT THAT MUCH HOT, SUPER-FAST ammo out of their revolvers, K frame or otherwise. But . . . back in the day, the gun rag writers wrote about it and now the tail is repeated as nauseum over and over again.
IF A VINTAGE K FRAME TODAY is still tight without much flame cutting, it should be a moot point!
I LOVE the M65 revolvers . . . much more so than any "L" frames I've ever owned.
Unless abused (just like any other guns) a fine K frame should outlast you!
I'm a real sucker for the 3" M65 and M13 K frames, so I'm sure I'll pick up some more during the years. What great guns they are! The 4" "service revolvers" are also well-balanced revolvers that shoot extremely well.
T.
NOw these are quite impressive rounds for .38 Special Plus . Great for hunting as well.
http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=108
http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=108
Stainz
Member
My 6" 66 is much later - a 66-6 made 1/03. It has a regular partial lug... and the IL! It was $349.99 new/closeout from CDNN 9/03 - a bargain (I just got their latest flyer - no S&W revolvers... sigh!). The HKS #10 speedloader works fine - as it did with my old 3" 65 from '88, which I stupidly sold. They are not unsafe with light Magnum loads, but a longer fc life will be insured with heavier loads. Shoot it and don't worry - if you wear out or crack that fc, S&W has more barrels!
Now... as to ammo. I have a couple of .38s... but I have more labelled as .357 Magnums. They have capacities, barrel lengths, and other features simply unavailable in .38 chamberings. Sure, I reload .357 Magnum cases - and keep thousands loaded on hand - as target plinkers. They top out at +P .38 Special. My home defender and pocket protector loads alike are the venerable 'FBI load' - the Remington R38S12 158gr LHPSWC +P .38 Specials - all I need. Feel free to stoke your .357 Magnums with hot loads - but I won't. Mine likely were tested with 'real' Magnums - the last time they saw them, too. My son will inherit some revolvers in fine condition one day. YMMV. LSMFT.
The L-frames were brought out to instill a greater feeling of the longevity to the .357 Magnum S&Ws. The front strap is .040" thicker, allowing a .025" larger OD fc. The gripframe is the same size - K&L frames take the same grip. The cylinder opening is taller - permitting a larger OD cylinder - and a seventh round (686+). It also would fit a 5-shot .44 Special cylinder (296, 396, & 696). Of course, with a .429" bore, even more of that fc was gone - a real 'knife-edge' resulted. Of course, the .44 Special, at least non-Keith level loads, is a lower pressure round - the fc should last (My 296 & 696 are fine.). I think the K-frames are fine... the partial/no-lug makes them unreal pointers - really an 'extension of your hand'. Buy it!
Stainz
Now... as to ammo. I have a couple of .38s... but I have more labelled as .357 Magnums. They have capacities, barrel lengths, and other features simply unavailable in .38 chamberings. Sure, I reload .357 Magnum cases - and keep thousands loaded on hand - as target plinkers. They top out at +P .38 Special. My home defender and pocket protector loads alike are the venerable 'FBI load' - the Remington R38S12 158gr LHPSWC +P .38 Specials - all I need. Feel free to stoke your .357 Magnums with hot loads - but I won't. Mine likely were tested with 'real' Magnums - the last time they saw them, too. My son will inherit some revolvers in fine condition one day. YMMV. LSMFT.
The L-frames were brought out to instill a greater feeling of the longevity to the .357 Magnum S&Ws. The front strap is .040" thicker, allowing a .025" larger OD fc. The gripframe is the same size - K&L frames take the same grip. The cylinder opening is taller - permitting a larger OD cylinder - and a seventh round (686+). It also would fit a 5-shot .44 Special cylinder (296, 396, & 696). Of course, with a .429" bore, even more of that fc was gone - a real 'knife-edge' resulted. Of course, the .44 Special, at least non-Keith level loads, is a lower pressure round - the fc should last (My 296 & 696 are fine.). I think the K-frames are fine... the partial/no-lug makes them unreal pointers - really an 'extension of your hand'. Buy it!
Stainz
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