"Tactical" Automobile?

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Hrmm.... pack a Mercedes 300D diesel into a Jeep Cherokee with a mild (4") lift, detachable sway bars (stable on the road, pop 'em loose for off-road travel) and a roof rack with at least 2 extra wheels, an air system (I mean air compression, like for tools) and a dedicated 120V supply system with enough amperage to supply a small MIG welder. Oh, and an extended or extra fuel tank.

That would get you cross-country no matter what the conditions, I suspect. Even if things were to *seriously* break you've got the means to repair in the field, and if the diesel can get you 25mpg then 30 gallons will get you 750 miles, plenty far.

I'd probably keep some top-end lube or ATF or something to add to the tank if the only fuel I could find were something like kerosene.... and IIRC you can run on fuel oil if you adjust the injection pump accordingly, not to mention veggie oils (keep filters).
 
I like Suzuki XR-7 better than Subarus. I was a (Japan 1974) factory trained Suburu mechanic for the dealership my uncle owned since 1972. These vehicles are well built, however when they stopped push rod 4 cyl engines they are nowamong the trickiest and difficult to work on! Think dealership only! The Suzuki's are more straight foward and you CAN work on them your self with minimal special tooling. They are built about as well built as Subaru and have a real 100,00 mile warranty. They have real 4wd not AWD from a front wheel drive. No they are as fast as a WRX but they get alot better mpg. Also the Jeep Rubicon is the most "tactical" veficle you can buy IMHO and the new ones are stone reliable.:D
 
Subaru. It meets all of your criteria.

I have an A6 quattro- I NEVER thought that it would do as good as it did in the NH snow this winter. I came from a Toyota Highlander. GREAT SUV/ CAR on steroids. I would never think of taking it off road, though. It's a Yuppie SUV. Back to the A6- Quick, easy to drive, and fun to drive. Tends to stick out a little more than an Outback or Forester, though. I assume more expensive to fix. Also, the Subaru will finally end it's breakin period at about 200,000 miles!
 
I'm sorry, but "cheap to fix" and either Subaru or Toyota just don't mix.

If I had to pick from current production, I'd say go for a police package Crown Vic. If you want to talk a tactical car in general, a Caprice Classic with the LT1 engine. These cars are stable, powerful, have a ton of storage and the amount of sheetmetal between you and trouble cannot compare to any import short of the Titan pickup. Nothing is cheaper to fix than a Chevy.
 
Dunno bout that, White Horseradish.... I can pick up various sundries for my shadow, things like $9 brake rotors, $120 clutches, $85 for a crankshaft... :)

It's seriously been the cheapest car I've ever owned to keep running, and I haven't found anything comparable yet. I even bought a brand-new set of black steel wheels for it, $120 for 4. I think it's got a lot to do with the sheer volume of shared chassis chrysler cranked out in the 80's and 90's, basically everything they ever built in FWD was either an L or K based chassis, with darned near 100% driveline compatibility along the lines and 75% interchangeable between. Gives you several tens of millions of vehicles that were cheap to begin with (re: lots in junkyards) that you can snag anything off of, and enough still on the road that aftermarket part costs get driven down.

Plus I can do somethign easy like fit a 1979 dodge ram 150 master cylinder, '86 caravan rotors, and daytona rear discs and have a car that'll stop from 60 in less than 110 feet for $400 or less :D
 
Well, I suppose I should qualify that. First off, that is my personal not-so-humble opinion. I have a somewhat less than rational attachment to GM cars. Second, this applies to RWD Chevys. There are certain things that a RWD vehicle lacks that are a regular maintenance item on FWD - driveaxles, for instance. Cheapest ones run $80 or so, while the comparable part on a RWD is the u-joint that is between $7 and $15. The labor is at least two hours for an axle, a u-joint can be done in 30 minutes.

RWD vehicles usually have longitudinally mounted engines, which makes service easier. I'll just mention one thing here - back three plugs on a transverse six.

Also, in my experience, a RWD Chevy is much like a Russian gun(to which I also have an attachment) - you can beat it to hell and back and it will still work. I have a 1985 Astro van that just kicked over 300,000 very hard miles. I know it has not been maintained very well before it got to me and at one point I ran it down to 1 quart of oil (don't ask), but it still runs well without major breakdowns and starts every time no matter what the temperature is. The thing that will kill it is rust. Minnesalta, don't'cha know.

There are a few things that I absolutely hate about Chryslers. Their automatic transmissions and the 3.0 Mitsubishi engine come to mind. I dislike any engine with a timing belt, really. I'll take a steel chain any day. What can I say, I like heavy metal...
:D
 
At risk of ambushing the thread....

Yes, driveaxles are $80. They also are daily proven to take 300hp and 300+lb-ft of torque in stock configurations... turbododge.com . They also take me 25 minutes to change, 45 if they're passenger axles on an early turbo (U-jointed mid shaft).

I'm talking specifically 2.2/2.5 TBI with the *good* auto or a manual tranny when I tout these vehicles as being tough and ready for anythign but a drag race :) No sixes, none of the overengineered 4 speed autos. The motor has four plugs at hand level on the front of the motor, oil filter in front and reachable from top of bottom with both hands, mounts easily visible, enough room to stand in the compartment in front of the engine, and the only thing behind the engine is the intake and exhaust manifold and the power steering pump. When the timing belt breaks (150,000 miles or so), you can take the road jack to hold the engine up, remove the passenger side engine mount, pop the covers loose, line the pulleys back up, adn slap the new one on. Not rocket science, and it's a noninterference engine, you can crank it all day long with a broken belt and never bend a valve.

I'm not saying RWD Chevys are bad.... I'm saying they're bigger, generally older, aren't going to get the mileage out of a well tuned motor, and may not do as well off-road or in inclement conditions.
 
You know, I'd thought of objecting, but this really is a "tastes great/less filling" type of a debate. What it really comes down to is you have to have a vehicle that fits you. No matter what the manufacturer, if you're uncomfortable, it ain't a good car. I, for examle, am not comfortable in a Jeep no matter how much I move the seats, mirrors and the steering column.

As for the "tactical" bit, just mount a couple of lasers on it, maybe a solenoid-fired shotgun in a fender. :D Me, I am a van guy. An M60D in the sliding door would work for me. Barring that, I'll build some secret compartments in the floor and goose the engine to make .5 past light speed so that I can make the Kessel run in less than twelve parsecs. :D

Seriously, though. Any car that is well maintained, not flashy and comfortable for the driver can be a good "tactical" car. Having horsepower over stock would be handy for hauling posterior in case of trouble, but like anything else it is totally useless and possibly dangerous if the operator lacks the skills to apply it properly. Know your equipment, its strong and weak points and, most importantly, its limitations. I used to drive a 1985 Camry with which I was fairly regularly able to get away from much faster and more powerful cars because I knew just how fast I could take certain turns. The guys in Mustangs either chickened out and braked or went too fast and slid out of the turn. There are few good drivers out there, and if you make sure you are one of them, you have a tactical edge.
 
WH brings up another good point.

If you really want to know how your car handles, get yourself to an SCCA-sponsored autocross. It'll teach you what the combination of you and your car can really do. Unfortunately, it'll also make you want to buy the really good tires.
 
That is a good point. I am used to driving an 1983 Buick Electra (think boxy Chevy Caprice), which was nearly indestructable, but had floaty suspension. That was great on dirt roads, but on pavement corners weren't your friend at speed. You had better be prepared to swing for the fences with that.


Enter the 1983 Mercedes Benz 380 SEL. 17ft long, but handles better than my old Beretta. It seems to like curvy roads. I used to think I could drive well, but I can't keep up with the car. At least I know that there is more there if I need it. I want to test the limits of it, but I dont want to wreck the thing. When its not on the highway, it seems to think it is some sort of Porsche or something. Ever seen that Herbie movie where he is passing all those expensive cars? Just like that. Anyone who has traveled Hwy. 12 out to Hobb's range out past Rogers in Arkansas knows the road I am talking about. It loves to do 50 there.

Yes, driveaxles are $80. They also are daily proven to take 300hp and 300+lb-ft of torque in stock configurations... turbododge.com . They also take me 25 minutes to change, 45 if they're passenger axles on an early turbo (U-jointed mid shaft).
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Huh. Must be alot better than the crap that Chevy put on 89' Berettas. I broke 3 CV axles w/ 90hp. That 3rd one is still on there, sounding like it is going to beat the car to death. But it still propels the car.
 
Huh. Must be alot better than the crap that Chevy put on 89' Berettas. I broke 3 CV axles w/ 90hp. That 3rd one is still on there, sounding like it is going to beat the car to death. But it still propels the car.
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I lost a driveaxle on my Toyota, and they are reputed to be uber-reliable. Naturally, it grenaded all over the road at 3AM on 34th Street in Manhattan.

A u-joint will take more abuse than a tripod CV joint. Most FWD cars use CV joints on their driveaxles. Turbo Dodges are a rare exception.
 
As an owner of an 02 Subaru WRX wagon, I would have to say that it meets your criteria perfectly, except for a few things.

Fuel Range is not that great. 14.5 gallons @ 30 MPG, but much less if you enjoy stepping into the gas, which is hard to resist in this car.

Other then that, it is reliable, fast, fun, has great ground clearance for a sports car, good traction, good handling, and a robust body (Quite a few kids have crashed them).

BTW, the new Baja Turbo comes with 210 HP, so it moves quite well. I had a guy try to follow me up an offramp in one, and he stayed with me quite well ;)
 
Subarus are great, but I always had problems with getting them worked on. And kids on ten speed can run you down from behind, unless you're talking WRX. The Crown Vic, rigged like a police cruiser, would probably be a safe bet. However, I feel compelled to mention the Mercedes E55 AMG.

Stop laughing.

Yeah, I know it's roughly 80 grand worth of car. However:
1. Manueverability / Performance: Literally handles like a sports car. Okay a sports car with a load of bricks in the trunk, but it'll dust anything else mentioned so far except the Porsche, and make almost anything you can mention work up a sweat catching it. 469 HP and 516 ft/lbs of torque. 0-60 in about 4 seconds. Is still pulling strong when you hit the limiter at 155mph. That's a whole lot of 'get outta Dodge'.

2. Ground clearance / Traction / Articulation: AWD and traction control, and quite frankly the traction control is good enough that you don't really need the AWD. Not an SUV, but if you are prepared to lose bodywork, will climb curbs without issue.

3. Fuel economy: Only gets 21 miles/gallon on the highway, but compensates with a 20 gallon tank. 5 hours of 80 miles per cruising between fillups.

4. Passenger capacity / accessibility: Full size 4 door sedan.

5. Storage capacity: Almost 16 cubic feet of storage, which isn't Crown Vic territory, but is way better than a Legacy sedan

6. Reliability: In my experiance, the mechanicals of MB products are excellent. People will mention problems, but the problems are usually inconveniances, i.e. the power windows are acting up, or the sunroof won't open. But they alway start, run, and will continue to due so right up until a tactical nuke is detonated on the hood. Then it might need a tuneup.

7. Safety: Keep in mind that this is a car designed to keep it's occupants alive thru crashes at Autobahn speeds; the chassis will take a lot of punishment and still hold up. Also keep in mind that MB has a nice sideline turning these things into "Guard" cars. They have better tires, glass, armoured skin, and a reinforced chassis, but the basis platform is the same one that protects most heads of state around the world.

8. Everyday practicality: A dentist could (and many do, I'm sure) drive it. Just not to it's full potential.
 
The driveaxles on FWD chryslers are *beasts*, especially the newer "unequal length" style. My shadow only makes 105hp on a good day. But as for abuse... like I've said, I took the car rallycrossing.

When you rallycross on grass and mud in a FWD car with bad(ish) tires, the driveline sounds like a boat jumping off plane. I leave it in second gear with my foot on the floor, and the wheels constantly spin and slip, spin up to 45mph and *whoomp* traction and it reads 25. Most of the time this is with the wheels turned a little, partly with the wheels at full lock. That's about the worst abuse you can feed to a CV jointed drive axle.... and those same axles are still driving the car, silently and smoothly.

Like I said, turbododge.com has bunches of people who have determined that stock FWD Chrysler drive axles are more than beefy enough to handle their 25+psi turbocharged monsters... the driveaxles actually often outlast the differentials in the transmissions (which is kind of unfair, there's a design "flaw" in the trannies from New Process).

That said, it is pretty wierd to look underneath an economy car that makes 93hp stock, and see driveaxles with ~4-5" CV joints as big as two fists put together and a roughly 1.5" thick shaft.
 
Jeep cherokee or Grand Cherokee.
The only disqualifying factor is gas mileage. My 4.0 HO got about 18mpg. However, you can get an extended range tank for it, which would be my top pick for aftermarket add-ons.
If I owned another one, here's how I'd build it:
Roof rack
front and rear reciever hitches
removable 8,000lb electric winch
optima battery
3" budget lift
30" A/T tires
extended range gas tank
external spare tire rack, with slots for a couple jerry cans.
 
Once again - Jeep Rubicon! Real Dana 44 axels, proven simple engine , same with transmission. Excellent easily modified coil spring suspension , factory 33" tires - and the list goes on. The hard tops seal up real good now a days. AND say 10+ years down the road : Subarus, Audis chryslers, fords ect... value = junk versus Jeep (traditional jeep) value is still very good. 1994 YJ Jeeps are selling for $6000+ around here in good shape. They sold for $12000 new!
 
Jeep Rubicon!
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I just don't think the wranglers have enough internal storage space for the stated purpose.
When I had my XJ, I've taken me, wife, two dogs camping for three days and had the ability to haul all my crap.
I'm tempted to buy another XJ or ZJ!
 
The wrangler's getting stretched nearly a foot for the 2005 model, and should have a diesel available shortly thereafter...
 
The wrangler's getting stretched nearly a foot for the 2005 model
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That is an optional model, the Wrangler Unlimited. I looked at jeeps website, MSRP is $25,000 base for the stretch. Still not much cargo room compared to a standard SUV.
http://www.jeep.com/wrangler/models/unlimited.html?context=wrangler-index&type=link
A late model low mileage XJ Cherokee 4x4 4.0L can be had for about $10-12,000.
BTW, this is the third time Jeeps had a stretch model of thier open topped jeeps.... there was the LWB CJ5...AKA the CJ6. Also, the Scrambler, which is a LWB CJ7...aka the CJ8 Scrambler.
 
Reliability: In my experiance, the mechanicals of MB products are excellent. People will mention problems, but the problems are usually inconveniances, i.e. the power windows are acting up, or the sunroof won't open. But they alway start, run, and will continue to due so right up until a tactical nuke is detonated on the hood. Then it might need a tuneup.
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An MB E55 AMG is not a vehicle I would want in a SHTF get-out situation, merely because of all the electronic wizardry in them. Their mechanicals are top-notch, but their electrics are all most as un-friendly as the BMW I-drive system :barf: . The last thing you need when you need to GTFOD is your car refusing to work or only working in "limp home" mode.


If you are going to go MB and "tactical", get an old 300TD wagon and put some mods on it. They are all steel, and survive impacts well, like this one did. And you can haul alot of stuff and people, with the ability to push many things out of your way, diesel fuel for fuel economy, and still be able to cruise at over 100mph. Old MB diesels are tough. Getting 750,000mi out of an engine is not unheard of with proper maintenance. Your car body will rust out from underneath it before the engine gives way, as long as you do your part.
 
I wouldn't mind diesel, if it weren't for one problem;

It gets COLD here. As in, -30 centigrade for weeks at a time is not unheard of. I've seen LCD crystals in new car radio displays fail to work at all due to the cold, and in my experience, diesel engines just don't work at all reliably when it gets less than -20; the ambient tempurature is simply too cold for the engine to start. Newer engines may not have that problem as bad, but I don't like taking chances with being stranded. :eek:

The Subarus are looking very nice, however; I should take a look at one ASAP.
 
bokchoi,

Do not underestimate the worthiness of a Jeep Cherokee.
I will buy nothing else as a family car again. Ever.
As for a truck, it's either Nissan or Dodge. Preferably Nissan. Mine has 215,000 miles and not a hiccup.
 
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