Taurus 709 Slim

[Good Ol' Boy]

So I'm itching to get my "warm months" carry gun and up until recently was pretty set on a CPX-2 or CPX-3 (if it ever becomes available). I stumbled across the 709 Slim and although it's ugly as sin IMO looks aren't a requirement for CC to me. I hear lots of good things about the trigger compared to others in it's class. Please someone school me on the SA/DA trigger. I'm familiar with DA/SA, DAO and SAO but not with this. The stuff I've read so far on it are confusing and don't make any sense.

Also, does anyone make a grip extension? That would be an absolute requirement for me.


Anything else anyone cares to share in regards to this pistol is welcome.



Thanks in advance...

 

[Big7]

SA/DA trigger means first shot is single action.
The rest are double action. After the first one, it's DAO..
If that makes sense.

Taurus makes FINE weapons.. be it carry or hunting.
I have never had or even heard of a "bad one"..

My USUAL carry is a PT111 Millennium Pro in 9 Para.
Never had one single issue.

I'm sure you can expect the same from the Taurus 709 Slim.

 

[primalmu]

Big7, you've got it backwards. On SA/DA guns, the FIRST shot is double action, because it is cocking the firing mechanism and firing the round with a single pull of the trigger. After the first round, it becomes a single action because the cycling of the slide cocks the gun rather than the trigger.

I think its simply a typo, because it makes absolutely no sense for the first shot to be single action but all following shots be double action. I don't think the order that it is listed (SA/DA vs DA/SA) is relevant to the order in which the gun operates.

BUT, someone please school me if I'm wrong.

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

After more reading/watching I've actually heard/seen some folks refer to this pistol as SAO, it's only DA if there's no round in the chamber, which makes zero sense.

If it truly is a SA pistol with a claimed 4-5lb pull that would make me that much more interested.


And on further research I've found there are grip extensions so that's a plus...

 

[C0untZer0]

In order to chamber a round the slide has to go back - somehow, and that partially cocks the striking mechanism. Once the gun is partially cocked Taurus calls that "Single Action Mode"

If the shooter pulls the trigger and the cartridge doesn't ignite, the trigger can be pulled again, this time in double action mode.

This is different from a Glock or a Kahr or some other pistols where if you pull the trigger and the slide doesn't go rearward, the trigger becomes inactive or sometimes its called a "dead" trigger.

So actually, the first shot would never be DA and the trigger would be DA only if the slide for some reason didn't travel rearward after the pull of the trigger.

 

[MedWheeler]

The "double-action" function is Taurus marketing the gun as having "re-strike" capability in the case of a round failing to fire. There is no other way to have a live round in the chamber with the mechanism at rest for a DA first shot.

 

[stchman]

The Taurus PT709 and PT111 would be much better if Taurus would make version without a manual safety.

 

[C0untZer0]

I just purchased a PT111 and the DA trigger seems better than the SA trigger. I know that sounds backward but with the SA trigger, there is a tremendous amount of take up, then the rearward movement stops, and then quite a bit of pressure to get the trigger to break. I find it difficult to keep a good sight picture when I'm applying the pressure to get the trigger to break.

In DA mode I'm already applying pressure as the trigger moves rearward and it seem to break easier than it does in SA mode.

You can try the DA trigger by dry-firing, but I don't do it much because in practice you'll almost never use the DA trigger.

 

[Dragon breath]

SA/DA trigger means first shot is single action.
The rest are double action. After the first one, it's DAO..
If that makes sense.

Taurus makes FINE weapons.. be it carry or hunting.
I have never had or even heard of a "bad one"..

My USUAL carry is a PT111 Millennium Pro in 9 Para.
Never had one single issue.

I'm sure you can expect the same from the Taurus 709 Slim.

So you have never seen or heard of any problems with Taurus handguns? Can you tell me what rock you have been living under?

 

[Big7]

I have not figured out how to "quote" for some reason, all I have is the Quick Reply
and Post reply.. So here goes..

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=10298120&postcount=3
"Big7, you've got it backwards. On SA/DA guns"

Yes, the confusion was SA/DA when the proper term is DA/SA.
Thanks for catching that.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=10298606&postcount=9
"So you have never seen or heard of any problems with Taurus handguns? Can you tell me what rock you have been living under"?

Have not been living under any rocks as far as I know. I have several Taurus firearms and have friends
that have a few models that I don't own but have shot.
So, no, I have never had or heard of problems with Taurus.

If you know of any, please share..

 

[C0untZer0]

I just purchased a Taurus Millennium G2 PT111, with some trepidation, so I am really hoping that I have a problem-free gun, and I'm not trying to jinx myself. The biggest bunch of Taurus fanboys ever can all be found hanging out at TaurusArmed.net and even they admit that Taurus has problems. They have a forum category for product problems:

http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/taurus-product-problems/

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

CountZero and MedWheeler that makes sense, thanks. So basically a restrike capability in DA mode.


Now that we've settled that, does anyone have any experience with the 709? Most of the reviews I've seen have been pretty positive overall. The SA trigger seems to be one the that people like the most and is most appealing to me. Most small CC pistols have a DA action with a very heavy pull which I am not fond of. IIRC the CPX-2 is somewhere in the neighborhood of 12lbs.

 

[C0untZer0]

If you can dry fire one in a gun store I definitely would. I think when we hear "Single-Action" we assume its a decent trigger.

The SA trigger on the Taurus Millennium G2 PT111 is nothing to write home about.

 

[VoodooMountain]

SA/DA trigger means first shot is single action.
The rest are double action. After the first one, it's DAO..
If that makes sense.

Taurus makes FINE weapons.. be it carry or hunting.
I have never had or even heard of a "bad one"..

My USUAL carry is a PT111 Millennium Pro in 9 Para.
Never had one single issue.

I'm sure you can expect the same from the Taurus 709 Slim.

Are you being serious?.....

I'm being honest here.

 

[VoodooMountain]

So, no, I have never had or heard of problems with Taurus.

If you know of any, please share..

There's a whole thread that has been recently running about firearms you would never purchase again and Taurus (and its counterparts Rossi and Heritage) make up about 90% of the posts.

 

[George Dickel]

My suggestion is to shoot one before purchase. I bought a 709 and at the gun counter it felt good in my hand but at the range me and the pistol just didn't work together well. For my hands the trigger was too far back towards the grip and my trigger finger was hitting on my supporting hand. I have wide hands with short fingers. No matter how I placed my finger and supporting hand to reduce the interference it wasn't the optimal hold. The pistol shot low and left for me and I had to adjust the sights to the maximum and still had to hold off a bit. The pistol carried well and concealed well, never had a malfunction in 300 - 400 rounds. If you can shoot it well buy it but shoot it first.

 

[cc-hangfire]

The PT709 is unusual for a striker fired handgun with its double strike capability. As kind of explained above, after racking the slide and chambering a round, the striker is tensioned and the trigger will be SA. Only if the round doesn't fire will it then be a DA trigger meaning the trigger pull both tensions and releases the striker.

I have the three following handguns among others, and this is the trigger pull into on my sample of three:
Springfield XD-40 subcompact: 3/4" take up, 1/4" travel with 5.2# break
S&W Shield 1/2" take up with 1/8" travel at 7# to break
Taurus PT709 SA 1/2" take up, 0" travel with 6# break; DA 7# with about 1/2" travel to break

The Taurus trigger breaks really far back; the trigger is almost to the frame at break. I have to be sure I use the pad or tip of my finger to make the pull

I haven't put more than 300 rounds through each gun (maybe 500 through the Shield), but no FTF or FTE from any of the 3 with mostly FMJ and a sprinkling of JHP. My Taurus did shoot low, so I replaced the front sight to get point-of-aim to point-of-impact. The PT709 gets decent reviews on the web. They are really inexpensive right now, but extra magazines are a little hard to come by & therefore can be expensive.

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

The PT709 is unusual for a striker fired handgun with its double strike capability. As kind of explained above, after racking the slide and chambering a round, the striker is tensioned and the trigger will be SA. Only if the round doesn't fire will it then be a DA trigger meaning the trigger pull both tensions and releases the striker.

I have the three following handguns among others, and this is the trigger pull into on my sample of three:
Springfield XD-40 subcompact: 3/4" take up, 1/4" travel with 5.2# break
S&W Shield 1/2" take up with 1/8" travel at 7# to break
Taurus PT709 SA 1/2" take up, 0" travel with 6# break; DA 7# with about 1/2" travel to break

The Taurus trigger breaks really far back; the trigger is almost to the frame at break. I have to be sure I use the pad or tip of my finger to make the pull

I haven't put more than 300 rounds through each gun (maybe 500 through the Shield), but no FTF or FTE from any of the 3 with mostly FMJ and a sprinkling of JHP. My Taurus did shoot low, so I replaced the front sight to get point-of-aim to point-of-impact. The PT709 gets decent reviews on the web. They are really inexpensive right now, but extra magazines are a little hard to come by & therefore can be expensive.

Thanks for the thoughtful and informative review.

I'm still on the fence. I've handled a CPX and it just feels great in the hand out of the box. I just double checked and it's a 9lb pull so not quite as bad as I thought but not what I'm used to by any means. Haven't handled a 709 yet but just from pictures and video it's easy to see that the trigger is set way back towards the grip. Having XXL hands I could see this as an issue like George mentioned.


How do you guys feel about the CPX versus the 709? Right now I think I'm still leaning towards the CPX.

 

[MedWheeler]

I'd go with the CPX-II only because I'm already heavily-experienced with actual double-action triggers, and I don't like using a manual safety.

But that's just me. I can't answer for you.

 

[Tallball]

I owned a 709 slim. It fit in my hand well and was reliable. But my fingers are very long and something was very awkward about the angle of pulling the trigger. It was very difficult for me. I ended up trading it in on an LC9.

 

[C0untZer0]

The SCCY CPX II and Taurus 709 are different guns, the 709 is a single stack, the CPX II is a double stack. The CPX II is more comparable to the Millennium G2 PT111.

I really didn't like the trigger on the CPX II but I'm not sure it's better than the 709, maybe by a tiny bit?

I think if the CPX II and the Millenium G2 were the same price I'd go with the CPX II, but they're not the same price. I can get the Taurus Millenium G2 PT111 for $184.99 + $12.99 S&H, that makes it almost 25 bucks cheaper than the SCCY.

The Taurus 709 is even cheaper right now - $181.99 at Whittaker Guns:

https://shop.whittakerguns.com/product/427

 

[wild cat mccane]

It never is, nor can it be set into DA unless the trigger is pulled and the slide isn't actioned.

It is SA only for all purposes unless a no bang.