Quantcast

TC Patriot Pistol

Discussion in 'Blackpowder' started by whughett, Sep 19, 2018.

  1. whughett

    whughett Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2008
    Messages:
    1,377
    Location:
    Rhode Island/Florida
    Recently I acquired a Patriot Pistol. .440 patched round balls over up to 35 grains of 3F are the recommended load and they work just fine, the pistol is a hoot to shoot. For economy sake I've settled on 28 grains of 3f and patches cut from old 100% cotton T-Shirts. I just hate paying up to $18 for .440 round balls, and don't shoot it enough to purchase a mold. What I do have as a bullet caster is an unlimited supply of 45 caliber bullets in several designs. I've tried 200, 230 and 250 grain bullets in both un-sized and sized configured. Sized .452 seem to be a slip fit and un-sized require about the same force to ram down as a patched ball. None have proven to be very accurate. Some even seem to key-hole. Also the lead used to cast is unknown hardness but is not soft, although that would not seem to be a factor. I suspect rifling may be the issue.

    Any here have one of these ? Experimented with different loads other that PRB's. Net info on this pistol is scarce and I assume owing to a factory fire they are no longer produced. Photos on the net show a slightly different forearm arrangement than on mine, a low 4 number serial number on this one may indicate an early model.
     
  2. arcticap

    arcticap Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2005
    Messages:
    6,691
    Location:
    Central Connecticut
    Some options for continued experimentation with those bullets could be to try some using a .005 linen patch, or paper patched and with a Wonder Wad or card loaded underneath it.

    These methods have helped with shooting conicals from rifles, perhaps it would be worth trying with the pistol.

    This thread reports about several people shooting 200 - 250 grain conicals from the TC Seneca & Cherokee .45's using these methods with good to great results, although with larger
    powder charges from 50 - 70 grains.--->>> http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?262810-LEE-REAL-bullet-for-45cal-Seneca

    Along with the bullets needing to be pushed faster, they may need to be properly sealed in the bore and loaded snug enough to not strip the rifling.

    I'm not sure that you would want to risk cracking a fragile and difficult to replace Patriot stock by loading too much powder.
    You'd be better off cast rounding balls using an inexpensive Lee round ball mold.
    A used one can be found on Ebay or gun forums.
    Even if the round balls were cast with hard lead, a lubed patch would help to protect the rifling and hard lead is known to work.

    Maybe ultra light bullets, or a proven revolver or skirted conical would work better
    But to buy a mold to cast those may waste even more money, especially if they don't shoot well.

    What distances are you shooting your cast bullets at?
    Perhaps you can try shooting them at closer distances while you experiment further.

    The only other option that I can think of would be to try a plastic .45 sabot that's designed to fit either a 400 bullet or a .355 - .357 bullet if you have any of those bullets on hand.
    Sabots could help address a lot of problems associated with shooting those heavier bore size conicals.
    These .45 sabots are available from MMP:--->>> https://www.mmpsabots.com/store/mmp-standard-sabots/

    Home Page:--->>> https://www.mmpsabots.com
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2018
  3. paul harm

    paul harm Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2018
    Messages:
    401
    E-Bay has molds for 25$ or so. Buffalo Arms has 440 Hornady swaged RBs for 13$/100. You could do a lot of shooting for 30$. I had one of them back in the 70s - nice gun and well made. I was always sorry I sold it.
     
  4. whughett

    whughett Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2008
    Messages:
    1,377
    Location:
    Rhode Island/Florida
    Thanks for the info. Most of my handgun shooting is done at 12 to 25 yards. It’s 12 yards I was playing with the Patriot at. Fun shooting but no serious use. I do have some 200 grain Lee R.E.A.L bullets and the mold for them, but they are at the Florida pproperty. I’ll tske the Patriot south this winter and continue the experiment over the winter months.
     
    robhof likes this.
  5. whughett

    whughett Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2008
    Messages:
    1,377
    Location:
    Rhode Island/Florida
    What stock did yours have. This one has no fore end brass furniture as those I’ve seen on the net. Where they produced with different options for stocks.
     
  6. Patocazador

    Patocazador Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2012
    Messages:
    3,831
    Location:
    Central Florida
    Mine has the brass furniture as did every one I ever saw. The stocks are notorious for fracturing when loaded without a proper-fitting stand. Yours could be a homemade stock or an after-market one.
     
  7. whughett

    whughett Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2008
    Messages:
    1,377
    Location:
    Rhode Island/Florida
    That would explain the price I paid for it. :( Though the stock is a nice piece and nicely fitted.
     
  8. whughett

    whughett Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2008
    Messages:
    1,377
    Location:
    Rhode Island/Florida
    FF83BE42-89F6-4330-8B0D-B8A8823B46FB.jpeg F83E8929-6890-437F-8445-0D58F232DE79.jpeg 54BE4921-A43F-4045-AD18-D59BFB09FFD0.jpeg 86FBA92C-3EF5-4EA9-9D5E-ECCFF73F1485.jpeg 757D5F3E-3F1A-4679-A9FF-8EE24FC0C984.jpeg A few photos.
     
    robhof, Gordon and Shanghai McCoy like this.
  9. cowboydave

    cowboydave Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2017
    Messages:
    37
    Original stock or not that is sharp looking. Thanks for posting photos.
     
  10. Malachi Leviticus Blue

    Malachi Leviticus Blue Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2012
    Messages:
    967
    Location:
    Michigan
    The first year of production did not have the Brass nose cap on the stock, so that is a plus for possible collector value, and random trivia.

    By the way, the .36 Caliber Patriots sell for a pretty penny.
     
    robhof and Patocazador like this.
  11. whughett

    whughett Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2008
    Messages:
    1,377
    Location:
    Rhode Island/Florida
    So do the 45’s if we can believe Gunbroker. I paid 200, wonder if it’s worth having the barrel refinished.
    Thats a “D” I engraved on the butt plate. Well it’s a shooter to me.
     
    robhof likes this.
  12. Patocazador

    Patocazador Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2012
    Messages:
    3,831
    Location:
    Central Florida
    Mine looks to be in excellent condition compared to your photos and I paid $315 four years ago. I've seen 3 or 4 advertised for $350-$400. $200 is cheap.
     
  13. paul harm

    paul harm Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2018
    Messages:
    401
    It's worth the 200. Mine looks just like yours. Just do the barrel yourself. Brownells sells a spray on blueing - it's only good for about a week after the first use because it's a epoxy. If I remember it cost around $40 and will do a couple of rifle barrels. Friends have used it and really like it. Or, if blueing, some of their cold blueing works good for around 10 to 15$s.
     
    robhof and whughett like this.
  14. Shanghai McCoy

    Shanghai McCoy Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2004
    Messages:
    3,441
    Location:
    The,sort of, Free state
    200 bucks is a real good price. Good looking gun. :thumbup:
    They are good shooting pistols and known for their accuracy in these parts.
     
  15. whughett

    whughett Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2008
    Messages:
    1,377
    Location:
    Rhode Island/Florida
    Today I emailed Thompson Center for possible info on this piece. Zip info. All records destroyed in fire.
    Now I’d like to see about refinishing the barrel.
    Anyone recommend or use an individual or company that will polish out and hot blue the barrel. I’m not anal on looks but this piece is so nice I just hate to look at blemishes.
    Been haunting gunbroker looking for a companion rifle, a Renegade in 45 caliber perhaps.
     
    robhof likes this.
  16. arcticap

    arcticap Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2005
    Messages:
    6,691
    Location:
    Central Connecticut
    Your pistol has a richly blued bolster, and some abrasions on the edges of flats including where there is some factory stamping.
    I'm not sure how well it would come out without some kind of special attention, or if that's even possible for a standard hot blue job.

    I don't know where you're located. But even the best hot bluers can't always get rid of imperfections that are ingrained in the metal without taking risks.
    It's a risk to even mail it to anyone just to have a bluing job done since the barrel is worth much more than any standard shipping insurance would cover if it were ever lost or damaged in transit.

    I would suggest to find the best local or regional hot bluer in your area.
    That would allow you to inspect the piece before paying for the job, and to hold the bluer personally accountable, to protect your level of satisfaction and to help prevent any loss or disappointment caused by shipping it.

    A small shop owner who actually does his own work and has a good reputation is most likely to give you the best service.
    And knowing that his customer is local will allow you to hold him the most accountable.

    Call local gunsmiths and gun shops and try to get some recommendations.
    At least try to keep the job in state.
    That barrel may be worth more than you realize, and it's worth protecting at any cost.
    Even if you need to forgo the bluing until you can locate the right outfit.
    It's not like the barrel is going to melt if a blue job isn't done right away.

    If push comes to shove, it can simply be touched up until you can find the right outfit for the job.
     
    robhof likes this.
  17. whughett

    whughett Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2008
    Messages:
    1,377
    Location:
    Rhode Island/Florida
    arcticap: Sounds like good advice to me and thanks for it. I'll just continue to shoot it on occasion and try to prevent any further damage beyond normal use.
     
  18. Patocazador

    Patocazador Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2012
    Messages:
    3,831
    Location:
    Central Florida
    First, it is not that difficult to do a hot blue job yourself. It is smelly (Bromine gas), and time consuming but relatively easy especially with a short pistol barrel.
    Second, I don't think the Renegade was made in .45 cal. It is 1" across the flats if I remember correctly and was offered in .50 and .54 cal. along with a .56 smoothbore barrel. A .45 would mean a very front-heavy rifle with the small diameter bore.
     
    robhof likes this.
  19. Ironhand54

    Ironhand54 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2016
    Messages:
    291
    Location:
    Central Michigan
    My patriot pistol is in 36 cal but I can tell you that it likes a thin oiled patch and light loads.

    IronHand
     
  20. krinko

    krinko Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2010
    Messages:
    256
    Location:
    Omaha-ha-ha
    For reference purposes, here is a later model Patriot with the brass nosecap and steel thimble.

    413925905.jpg

    -----krinko
     
    robhof likes this.
  21. PapaG

    PapaG Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2010
    Messages:
    3,023
    Location:
    Il
    The first ones had the same 1 in 48 twist as the rifles and didn't shoot conicals worth a hoot and most had a narrow range of loads for accuracy with round balls. We lobbied for a 1 in 22 twist and finally got it. Most of us using custom guns for target shooting used 1 in 20 or 22 twist.
    I picked one up a little while back that had the repaired broken stock for a song. Unfortunately, it is missing the rear sight and has a LER scope mounted in its place. Slow twist also. Probably part it out or list it someday.
     
  22. whughett

    whughett Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2008
    Messages:
    1,377
    Location:
    Rhode Island/Florida
    Well that explains why I cant find one. I had a Cherokee a few years back in 45 Caliber.

    I haven't truly experimented with it other than trying a few sized .452 lead pistol bullets in two bullet weights. Some over wads. They didn't fit the bore tight enough I think.
    My load is a 1.6 lee dipper of 3f and a .440 ball patched with a TC lubed patch from cotton tee shirt material. I've tried powder from a 1.3 and a 1.9 dipper, the middle road seemed best. I'm not a competition level shooter however. I've loaded and fired perhaps 90 rounds or less to date.

    No clue as to what the twist is on this one, features as in the highly polished and blued bolster, stock wood, fit and finish and the monogrammed butt cap would indicate perhaps it was a special order. The ram rod appears to be ebony and as its showing a slight crack at the threaded end I don't use it.
     
  23. Mowgli Terry

    Mowgli Terry Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2016
    Messages:
    658
    Location:
    Tennesse-former Confederacy
    I need some parts for my Patriot. This was after the fire. Promise, T/C sent parts with soot on them. Their help was greatly appreciated. After that fire seems like any work on the Seneca and the like ended.
     
  24. arcticap

    arcticap Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2005
    Messages:
    6,691
    Location:
    Central Connecticut
    By some coincidence, I found another one of those "early style" .45 Patriot pistols for sale.
    Here's a couple of photos of it.

    TC 3.jpg TC 4.jpg
     
  25. D. Buck Stopshere

    D. Buck Stopshere Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2014
    Messages:
    321
    Location:
    South Central NC
    whughett, if you want a T/C in .45 caliber, find a T/C Hawken rifle minus the barrel, or one that has a rusted-out barrel. Just lock, stock, triggers, wedge and furniture. Then, order from Tip Curtis (Tip Curtis Frontier Shop) a brand new Green Mountain "Drop-In" barrel in .45 caliber. A friend of mine showed up at our match last Saturday with his .45 caliber barrel from Tip, and said it cost him $287.00, including shipping. .45 caliber barrel - 1:66" twist.

    The alternative is to find a T/C Hawken in .45 caliber, which is hard to find. The .50 caliber was the most popular with the .54 Hawken taking second place in sales.
     
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice