Teetering Tensions on the Mexico Border

[Art Eatman]

Maybe Devil's Advocate for the BP spokesman: If the Mexican has already decided to cross, and the booklet persuades him to not be violent or to not lie if apprehended, from a BP officer's viewpoint it's a Good Thing.

From what why_me posted about the Balkans, it's easy to see parallels with what's happening in today's U.S. As far as I can tell from seeing and reading, there is either a lack of or a slowness to any acculturization of a large percentage of today's immigrants, particularly the illegals.

Slowness of acculturization will work itself out in a generation or two. Wilful resistance is another matter, particularly when encouraged by such as the Aztlan activists.

Regardless of any other comments by Pat Buchanan, he was exactly correct when he spoke of the differences in cultures of the various sources of immigrants. Two immigrants might be honest and ethical people, but one from western Europe would certainly be more able to fit in and be self-supporting than, say, an Indian from Chiapas.

Lord knows we have enough conflict, philosophically, between city folks and rural folks in this country. We don't need further Balkanization that is apparently deriving from the influx of illegals, now estimated at well above the oft-mentioned 12 million...

A problem for those of us who shoot and hunt is that since most of these illegals are here for economic and not philosophic reasons, those who finally gain the right to vote are not that much in favor of our Second Amendment. They come from "gunless" countries and aren't militant about freedom as are guys like Oleg. Note that these people, once they do vote, vote for those who cater to their needs--and these are mostly "Welfare Democrats" who also vote for gun control.

Art

 

[why_me]

Bottom line

They have to go. And we need to go after both the illegals,and the employers.
I think the fine is 10000 per illegal. That should be incentive enough for employers

 

[El Tejon]

Art, are you saying that the Irish, German, Italian, Polish, Chinese immigrants all came here because of political philosophy?

 

[longeyes]

What the previous pattern of immigration--the fabled Irish, Poles, Italians, et al.-- was is no longer germane. Mexico is clearly a special case because of geography and the number of Mexicans and recent Mexican-Americans now in the United States. No one with any knowledge of Southern California--to cite but one example--could be blind to the fact that "the Balkans" have already arrived.

The big difference, though, from past immigrant streams is the political and social climate in America today. The American Left has been trumpeting its theme of multiculturalism, diversity, and NON-assimilation for decades. Unfortunately, that message has been adopted by education, media, government, and corporations all too readily.

At some point we need to zero in on the cultural attributes that define "America" as a polity. Are all immigrant groups equally consonant with those attributes? I think not. They can become so, but ONLY if the concept of assimilation prevails.

 

[longeyes]

"If they've already gone ahead and made that decision to cross illegally . . . then anything that helps protect lives is worth it," said Andy Adame, spokesman for the Border Patrol's Tucson sector.

The Border Patrol has turned into an official welcoming committee for Mexican migrants--with the blessing of the White House. After all, family values, we have been told, do not stop at the border.

 

[why_me]

The Border Patrol has turned into an official welcoming committee for Mexican migrants--with the blessing of the White House. After all, family values, we have been told, do not stop at the border.

Maybe its easier to arrest some one who is walking than it is to have to pick up there lifeless body

those who finally gain the right to vote are not that much in favor of our Second Amendment

Most illegals I know actually own guns. I also knew a guy who used to smuggle 2 things into mexico. Electronics and guns.

Read the rest here or do your own google search
http://www.sanantoniolightning.com/mr1.html
Though portrayed as such by academics, the majority of Mexican-Americans are not pro-La Raza, pro-gay, pro-choice extreme leftists. Most Mexican-Americans are conservative, pro-gun, pro-family, pro-small business, pro-military and pro-American. Many have fulfilled the American dream. Mexican-Americans overwhelmingly supprot legitimate enforcement of border laws.

 

[Sean85746]

Well...time for me to add my two pennies.

I live in Arizona, and until last year...lived on the far southwest side of Tucson. My wife and I bought the house in June of 2001 because of the location (lots of desert) and I had my own pistol and rifle range scraped out by a neighbor that is a heavy equipment operator.

The place was perfect, or so I thought. The neighbors were far enough away that my shooting sessions were not a problem, and I had peace and quiet unless it was I that was making racket.

One night, my rottweiler Tyla Von Puppymonster, and her copmpanion Barbie Dog the 115lb lab, started baring and growling viciously at the back door.

My wife was not home from her office yet, and I was alone. So, me being me, I grabbed a 45, went out through my garage with the dogs and my Mag Lite.

My shed door was open, and there were voices coming from inside. I yelled in english "COME OUT NOW!"

It got real quiet, so I yelled in spanish "MANOS ARRIBA ES TU AQUI!, IMMEDIAMENTE!"

Then after a few seconds...I sent the dogs in.

Three illegals came out with about 220lbs of dog chasing them. I called off the dogs and scared the bejeebers out of them.

I never pointed my gun, so don't everyone get all upset, though I did have it next to my leg with my finger OFF the trigger.

I told them to vamanos, and after that posted sings on my fence line that read in english and spanish:

"DANGER NO TRESPASSING. DANGEROUS DOGS."

On the bottom of the sign was a picture of a Glock and a shotgun.

I installed spots with motion sensors, and had a few night fire sessions with my neighbors....funny how my yard became quiet and serene again.

 

[TaxPhd]

""MANOS ARRIBA ES TU AQUI!, IMMEDIAMENTE!"


Not surprising they didn't come out. The "manos arriba" is pretty clear, as is the "immediamente" (even though it isn't a real word). But, "es tu aqui" is pretty much meaningless. So is telling them to "vamanos."

But, they probably should have got the idea.




Scott

 

[Gregory J. Mayfield]

WHY-ME=Selection by Genetics

I select for genetics when I chose my dog, and I selected for genetics when I chose to date my wife. Didn't you? Therefore I chose the genetic material for my children.

 

[S Roper]

Since we annexed the Southwest from Mexico, isn't it natural for it to be inhabited by a large population of ethnic Mexicans? We have a state called New Mexico for crying out loud! I would expect our country to have some degree of multiculturalism given its British, Spanish, French, and native history. Obviously individuals will resits this, but it shouldn't be the goal of a free Republic to enforce a single national culture.

 

[garyk/nm]

Since we annexed the Southwest from Mexico, isn't it natural for it to be inhabited by a large population of ethnic Mexicans? We have a state called New Mexico for crying out loud! I would expect our country to have some degree of multiculturalism given its British, Spanish, French, and native history. Obviously individuals will resits this, but it shouldn't be the goal of a free Republic to enforce a single national culture.

Yes, it is completely natural for ethnic Mexicans to live here. Just as it is natural for ethnic Anglos to live in New York, New Jersey and New England.
But you have (conveniently?) ignored the ILLEGAL part of the equation.
As I stated previously, those of you who don't live in one of the border states really have no idea or clue as to the effect that illegals have on the local economy. Wages around these parts are largely set based on the willingness of illegals to accept substandard wages; so that I, as a college educated person with 15 years experience in my chosen field, have to accept $7.40/hour if I wish to remain living here.
If all of those fine folks who snuck across the border were actually here legally, then they would have no fear of being turned in to Immigration, and would be able to demand a higher wage, to the benefit of all.
New Mexico has a state income tax as well as sales tax. How much are the illegals contributing? Not nearly as much as they suck out of the system in freebie "social services"! That part of the Constitution which says that "if you are born in the US, you are a citizen", needs to be changed to read " if you are born in the US to parents who are here legally, you are a citizen".
That would really cut down on the welfare drain.

 

[DRZinn]

That part of the Constitution which says that "if you are born in the US, you are a citizen", needs to be changed to read " if you are born in the US to parents who are here legally, you are a citizen".

I've been saying that for years.

I would expect our country to have some degree of multiculturalism given its British, Spanish, French, and native history.

The thing is, that works only as long as we have a "melting pot" type of philosophy, in which all blends together into one cohesive culture. Picture a metal alloy, which is stronger than either of the elements in it. But if you just throw together some aluminum and some steel, it'll crack under just a little pressure.

 

[wingman]

we have a "melting pot" type of philosophy, in which all blends together into one cohesive culture. Picture a metal alloy,

Would be nice it if worked like that however with the current numbers
coming it isn't necessary for the melting process nor is it PC for the
general public to "pressure" them into the mainstream as once was done.
In truth its now the reverse in that we must learn another language in order
to work in certain areas/fields in this state.

I once lived in a small border town, it was very quite, most were english
speaking, those coming in from Mexico wanted to learn english. Now that
same town speaks only spanish if you do not you are not accepted, the folks
there now seem "very" anti-american however most money comes from
government jobs or welfare and of course the ever present drug trade.
The city government is run much like that of Mexico and in truth it is
Mexico other then American taxpayer money doing most of the funding.
It is a very strange place and sad to say many like it only the border. :banghead:

 

[Ezekiel]

Oh my...

I select for genetics when I chose my dog, and I selected for genetics when I chose to date my wife. Didn't you? Therefore I chose the genetic material for my children.

Sig Heil, Mein Fuhrer!

Are you seriously indicating that the border should be closed to protect the "purity of our lineage"?

 

[why_me]

It is too bad

Some groups talking about Illegal Immigration, stain the issue. They cater to and were founded by white supremacists . If you look at some of the groups espousing closed borders. You will find eugeniscists and white supremacists.
Its unfortunate. Im all for booting the illegals. But i dont want to be associated with the racists like john tanton ,barry primelow, and steve sailer.

Here is an excerpt from there bible, Camp of the Saints


Tanton’s “prescient†novel describes the takeover of France by “swarthy hordes†of Indians who arrive on France’s beaches in a desperate refugee flotilla. It attacks white liberals who, rather than turn the Indians away, would “empty out all our hospital beds so that cholera-ridden and leprous wretches could sprawl between white sheets … and cram our nurseries full of monster children.†It describes in grotesque detail the orgy that Indian men, women and children are said to take part in aboard the flotilla. It explains how, after the Indians take over France, white women are sent to a “whorehouse for Hindus.†The novel ends where it began, with the landing of the alien hordes: “[F]irst to land were the monsters, the grotesque little beggars from the streets of Calcutta. As they groveled through the wet sand like a pack of basset hounds, or a herd of clumsy seals exploring an unfamiliar shore, with their snorts and grunts of joy, they looked like an army of little green men from some remote planet. … Yes, [France] would suit them fine.†In an interview added as an afterword to The Social Contract Press edition, Raspail explains his fear that “the proliferation of other races dooms our race, my race, t extinction… .â€

 

[why_me]

One more thing then ill get off my soap box

These are the groups John Tanton founded. Taking this mans opinion on anything relating to race is akin to taking farrakhans view on whites

*American Immigration Control Foundation
AICF, 1983, funded

*American Patrol/Voice of Citizens Together
1992, funded

California Coalition for Immigration Reform
CCIR, 1994, funded

Californians for Population Stabilization
1996, funded (founded separately in 1986)

Center for Immigration Studies
CIS, 1985, founded and funded

Federation for American Immigration Reform
FAIR, 1979, founded and funded

NumbersUSA
1996, founded and funded

Population-Environment Balance
1973, joined board in 1980

Pro English
1994, founded and funded

ProjectUSA
1999, funded

*The Social Contract Press
1990, founded and funded

U.S. English
1983, founded and funded

U.S. Inc.
1982, founded and funded

 

[Sindawe]

Some groups talking about Illegal Immigration, stain the issue. They cater to and were founded by white supremacists . If you look at some of the groups espousing closed borders. You will find eugeniscists and white supremacists. Its unfortunate. Im all for booting the illegals. But i dont want to be associated with the racists like john tanton ,barry primelow, and steve sailer.

Dude, have you ever considered the possibility that your fixation with racists is as much an obsession as racists have with race?

 

[Orthonym]

Steve Sailer is a Rational Guy, IMHO.

I agree with his definition of a "race." It's nothing more or less than an extended family, to some degree or other.

 

[Orthonym]

Umm, When We Won the Mexican War,

We could have grabbed all of Mexico, had we wanted to do so. Jeff Davis counseled against it. IIRC, he recommended that we keep only those parts of Mexico with very few Mexicans in them. (i.e. Cali, New Mex, Colorado, etc.)

We did that. Later, we managed to develop the dry areas we'd captured so that they support agriculture and industry. And population. Our people got rich, and wanted cheap labor.

Do the math.

Do the rest of the math:

I do believe there are more people on this planet than there are good and useful things for them to do.

I don't care what y'all think, I'm old and grumpy.

 

[O.F.Fascist]

I agree with Bush on the issue of immigration.

I'm glad there are finally some Republicans who see the bigger picture about where this country is headed in the future.

I would have absolutely no problem if we had a more open border with Mexico similar to how we have with Canada. If that were the case we would definately have alot less of people crossing into the wilderness and trespassing onto other people's private property.

For some of the ignorant people on where who cry terrorism. Those that attacked us on 9/11 were not Mexico and they did not come into this country via Mexico.

Travel throughout this continent should be less restricted, but what we need to do is further restrict travel from other continents into ours. Our country should work more with Mexico and Canada and pressure them to make travel in from abroad a whole hell of a lot tougher.

 

[O.F.Fascist]

garyk/nm,

Wages around these parts are largely set based on the willingness of illegals to accept substandard wages; so that I, as a college educated person with 15 years experience in my chosen field, have to accept $7.40/hour if I wish to remain living here.

It should go along with that that cost of living should also be lower. It certainly is in South Texas.

New Mexico has a state income tax as well as sales tax. How much are the illegals contributing? Not nearly as much as they suck out of the system in freebie "social services"!

So then work to change your tax system. Texas has no income tax. Sales Taxes only.

That part of the Constitution which says that "if you are born in the US, you are a citizen", needs to be changed to read " if you are born in the US to parents who are here legally, you are a citizen".
That would really cut down on the welfare drain.

No reducing or eliminating welfare would really cut down on the welfare drain. I have no problem with people working to do just that.

 

[Orthonym]

What?

Though I (reluctantly) voted for W last time, I think he is at his absolute wrongest when he's going along with his rich Mexican oligarch buddies in allowing them to sluff off their underclass social problems to their northern neighbors.

Mexico has an entirely different culture from ours, and always has. Most Mexicans are not "hispanics," they're Indians!

I believe that if one comes from Spain, he cannot claim to be ethnically "hispanic" in the USA.

Owhell, had our ancestors not been so zealous to shoot so many Apaches and Comanches and Utes, etc., mayhap they'd have helped us resist the onslaught of their relations from further south.

 

[O.F.Fascist]

Orthonym, I disagree.

Muslims have an entirely different culture than ours. Indians have a completely different culture than ours. Chinese have a completely different culture than ours.

Mexicans do not have a completely different culture than ours. Damn near all Mexicans are Catholic, that means they are Christians for some of the slow people on this board, and as such share many of the same values most Americans do.

GWB and his people have the right idea. Hispanics will eventually be the majority of this nation, better to get them becoming Republicans than to try to let the Democrats take them.

 

[why_me]

Dude, have you ever considered the possibility that your fixation with racists is as much an obsession as racists have with race?

Nope I think the most i have ever talked about race was on this board in my entire life. Just kinda knaws at me that some people want the illegals gone cause ..well...there ... you know mexican.

GWB and his people have the right idea. Hispanics will eventually be the majority of this nation, better to get them becoming Republicans than to try to let the Democrats take them.

And i can directly relate my job loss. Our unions loss. The loss of income on illegal aliens. Unions want all the illegal aliens legalised. They need this because companies hirng them use them as a wedge against unionisation.

Everything in the last five years costs more. But the wages for my industry have not kept pace. Im schooled, intelligent, and skilled in my feild. Yet im worth only 14.50 an hour. And that is directly as a result of technology and cheap illegal immigrant labor. Just like the construction companies hiring nail bangers with 1 skilled carpenter (fixing lots of mistakes) machining is now being run the same way. You have a setup guy and a whole bunch of button pushers, many of them can not even read a micrometer. The mistakes they make are offset by there low wages. Maybe it is inevitable that in 50 years there will be more hispanics than any others. I could care less i need to make money Now.
Human Biodiversity Institute
The Human Biodiversity Institute is a conservative-run eugenics thinktank headed by Steve Sailer.

In regards to some one elses post. Is human breeding ethical This is steve sailers organisation that he founded and runs

Steve Sailer is a Rational Guy, IMHO.

http://www.humanbiodiversity.org/

The Human Biodiversity Institute promotes the study of biological differences among humans and their impact on society. Major areas of interest include race, sex, and sexual orientation.


Our Mission


The constant innovation in genetics and reproductive technologies is a sign that the evolution of the human race is about to accelerate almost unimaginably. Thus, we can no longer afford the comforting illusion that evolution doesn't really apply to humanity. We desperately need to understand the social impact of the various possible changes in our gene frequencies. Fortunately, we have a huge storehouse of data available to base predictions upon: the vast amounts of existing biological diversity. Unfortunately, we now discourage serious thinkers from examining it. Our only chance of foreseeing the potential world-shaking impact of Galtonian artificial selection rests in the honest, unstifled study of Darwinian natural selection. God help us if we don't start helping ourselves.

BTW this heavy genetic thinker know what degree he has? Well he is not a phd he is not a md and he makes his money doing movie reviews this is is side line. Eugenic research and writing articles they reprint on stormfront
(stormfront is a neo nazi organisation)

 

[O.F.Fascist]

why_me,

Im schooled, intelligent, and skilled in my feild. Yet im worth only 14.50 an hour.

I could care less i need to make money Now.

Yeah you do, so does most everybody else on this rock called Earth.