Tellin' a little squib

[C5rider]

Just finished reloading my first batch of 44 magnums and being relatively new to reloading, I was curious about squib loads. I've never had one but that doesn't mean that I never will. We're pretty meticulous on our reloading process but, I've heard of even factory loads having issues. That's why I'm not sure that this is specifically a "reloading forum" question.

I'm just wondering how big of a difference there would be between my 200gr FMJ with 28gr of H110 and a squib load? It's funny, even though there's still a chance of misfire with factory loads, I never worry about it. But, since I don't trust my mechanic (me), I fret over it probably more than I should.

So, has anyone had a squib with their 44s and, how much of a difference is it? Thanks for any insights.

 

[rcmodel]

how big of a difference there would be between my 200gr FMJ with 28gr of H110 and a squib load?

Seriously??

If the gun doesn't kick vertical and rip your ears off from muzzle blast?

Maybe you should check the bore for a stuck squib bullet!

Squib loads are generally recognized as a load with no powder in the case.

The primer pops and drives the bullet into the bore.
Sometimes far enough the cylinder can rotate, sometimes not.

You best way to avoid a squib load is to use loading blocks while charging cases, and compare the powder levels visually in every case before placing bullets in them and seating them.

If you want lighter loads, change powders to a medium burn rate power like Unique, or W231, or something similar.

If you want mouse-fart loads with no recoil, change to a even faster powder like Bullseye, Titegroup, etc.

Just remain aware that a .44 Mag case has enough room in it to hold a triple charge of some fast burning powders.

Thats when the loading blocks become even way more critical to prevent any chance of a charging mistake.

rc

 

[wow6599]

200gr FMJ with 28gr of H110

RC could answer this, but I think that is close to a max load.

 

[rcmodel]

Yes, it is Very close to a MAX load with a 200 grain jacketed bullet.

Hopefully you didn't load your "First Batch" of .44 Magnum without Starting at the recommended Starting load, and working up to near MAX???

Did you?

rc

 

[Valkman]

That's a lot of 110 - I only use about 20gr with 240gr bullets and get some recoil but it's fun to shoot. As to the difference between your load and a sqib - you'll notice.

 

[C5rider]

Seriously??

If the gun doesn't kick vertical and rip your ears off from muzzle blast?

Maybe you should check the bore for a stuck squib bullet!

Well, you put it THAT way RC, it starts to sound obvious....

Think of it as trying to describe pizza to someone who has never experienced "dough". Let me say that I was pretty sure that I'd notice.

I'm obviously not going for the "mouse-fart" loads. I have some Universal which would be used for something like that. I also have some 44 spl cases which will be used for those "less momentous" occasions.

As for the amount of H110. My sources (Hodgdon) lists the grains for that wieght bullet at 27.5 (starting) and 28.5 (do not excced). The same info was in my Lee dies. I have the Lee scale and try to be as accurate as possible but, neither me, nor the scale are "digital". So, understanding that H110 began to act weird if you went too low in charge (and going too high isn't good either), I went with a "1/2 grain safety margin" both ways. Now, if my thinking is flawed, I welcome your input.

All of my handgun reloading has been using Universal up to this point, which has a pretty wide margin of load wieghts (albeit much lower than H110). I have shot factory loads through my Ruger SBH as well as an initial batch of reloads with H110. I could tell a difference between them so I'm sure that I'll be able to tell if a squib ever did occur with this gun. Much more so than if it were a 22, that's for sure!

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Normal cartridge= bang

Squib = Loud hiss, odd smoke, and no recoil

At least that was my experience. I ended up with a .45 colt bullet lodged in the bbl of my 460.

 

[C5rider]

thanks 460Kodiac,

I had some 45acp brass that had some OLD primers in them from a friend. They were just tossed in a box in a garage for years and I didn't want to trust them so, I put them in my 45 and popped them. There was only about a handful. I was surprised how loud they were for just being a primer and I wondered if there would be any recoil if it had a bullet in front of it.

Again, I don't ever want one, but have thought about it, should it ever happen.

 

[Hk Dan]

I use that exact load with 200 grain Hornady HP/XTPs for deer hunting. I have never had one make another foot print. It has a healthy recoil impulse, and yes, if you get a quib you will notice. The squib will be a pop and virtually no recoil. DO NOT cock the hammer and fire again. Get a long pencil and lide it down the bore with the cylinder tipped out. If you see the pencil at the forcing cone, you're golden. If you don't, you have one in the barrel.

 

[NavyLCDR]

There is more danger from a squib in a semi-auto that the person is trying to empty the magazine of as fast as they can. My experience with squibs has been with 8mm Lebel rifle reloading. It's been a long time, so I can't remember the powder measure, but most data called for a large rifle primer. 8mm Lebel is a huge case and the large rifle primer just wasn't enough to set off the powder. Switched to large rifle magnum primers and no more problems.

I got just a pop - very, very, very, very noticeable difference between that and a regular discharge. Opened the bolt and the brass and unburnt powder fell out with the bullet in the barrel just beyond the chamber.

 

[C5rider]

thanks guys!

That's what I wanted to know.

For those who make deliveries (truck drivers and such), it's a lot like working with a dispatcher who can't imagine why you're having a hard time gettin' there before the docks close. I mean, "St. Louis to Chicago is only a couple of inches on the U.S. map!" That's where listening to those who have actually been there comes in handy!

 

[Certaindeaf]

There's a bit of a difference between a rip snortin bear load and a squib.
One danger (though probably not with a .44 mag) is that some guys can shoot so fast double action that a squib may well have happened and the one following it says hello.
Good luck to us all and don't go below minimum suggested with H110.

 

[788Ham]

My Hornady 7th Edition reloading book shows "28.7" grs of H-110 as a MAX load for that bullet weight, use with caution! I quite imagine that loading will be a tad more than any mouse fart you've ever shot. Possibly anyone you might know, who's familiar with reloading, could advise you and show you in any further reloading, just some simple advice! Be careful !

 

[C5rider]

788Ham,

Thanks for the input. I don't want to tick off the mods for turning this into a reloading thread, but, is there something that I'm doing that is dancing on the edge of danger. I mean, besides that we're basically talking about explosive charges and all.

I've noted that H110 has a much smaller window than my usual go-to powder (Universal) and I was a bit wary of jumping into that pool too quickly. Maybe I did anyways?

I don't foresee going any stronger on the loads as these are plenty. I'll have lower charges with lead bullets for paper-punching but just wanted to broaden my base for bullets. My Ruger SBH won't see a steady diet of these rounds.

My dad helped me a lot when I first started reloading about a year ago. It's been a while since he's done any reloading and he reminds me often of that when I ask him questions about powders and such. I've gone to THR several times as there are members on this forum who's input I respect and follow. I also use factory reload data, not just internet numbers.

I've usually worked up to a mid-point load on all my reloads. I'm not one to want to push the envelope much more than that. I've always felt that gives the largest margin for safety. Is there inherently something different on H110 (and like powders) that changes the scenario? Do you handle them differently due to the smaller window of usable charge rates? Honestly wanting to learn.

thanks again!

 

[RedAlert]

If you are a reloader why not a load a deliberate squib load? Make it the last round of your range session and load the squib and fire it being aware of how it feels and sounds.

Then take your wood dowel and tap it out the back with the cylinder opened out of the frame.

I don't see any harm in this process as long as you plan it and follow the plan. Don't make a mistake and mix it up in a good batch of ammo. Make one, keep it in a plastic bag or something so it doesn't get mixed and take it to the range. If you are shooting with others let them know in advance you plan to shoot a squib for your final round.

 

[Certaindeaf]

^
I don't know if I'd do that with H110. I'm not a big-brain like some here but that might make like a double-spike detonation. I don't know. Stepping aside for the word now.

 

[JRWhit]

If your loading with 110 your on the verge of sending one into orbit.
Just stick to your load data, it may not mirror that of Hornady's.
I cannot remember,but I'm sure one of these other guys will. Isn't h110
one of the powders in which you cannot reduce Never exceed By more than 3%
Due to unfounded phenomenon of over pressure/undercharge?

 

[C5rider]

/\ I've heard where you DON'T want to go below the listed load data. that's one of the reasons why I decided to go to the middle of the road and stay there for my loads. Now, with H110, that road is pretty narrow with only one grain separating the low from the Max. At least on the materials that I've seen listed for this load.

788Ham's Hornady listing shows a little more ceiling but, I'm not looking for MAX loads. Those extra two-tenths of a grain aren't going to keep me up all night, wondering how much I'll be leaving on the table.

I THINK RDF was meaning to simply load a round with a primer and no powder, since that would be more likely the reason for a squib and not a low-charge of powder. To be honest, I've thought about it but I'm not sure that reversing the flow of the bullet would be the best thing for my Ruger's bore. This could be a good illustration to make if I had a gun I didn't care about. Luckily, I've not run into one of those yet!

 

[JRWhit]

I believe that is why your window is so narrow. The h110 starting load should be 3% under that never exceed instead of the standard 10%.
Thats why their is so little difference in start to never exceed. It will make for a deer killa for sure. And if you miss you'll still burn em to death with the fireball.


Any one who can correct that please do. I am going off memory. Am I correct?

 

[56hawk]

Just as a side note it is possible to have a squib load with a full charge of H110. It happened to me when loading a lightweight plated bullet in a 500 S&W. I think it was a combination of using CCI primers and a light crimp. Anyway all I heard was the click of the hammer dropping. When I opened the cylinder though the bullet was stuck in the forcing cone and the powder had been compressed into a solid cylinder.

 

[SEE IT LIKE A NATIVE]

I had a few squib loads when I first started reloading for my Ruger srh 454. They all had powder in them that did not ignite . I am told that sometimes when using powders like h-110 with light for caliber bullets that the flame goes out because the pressure drops from the light bullet moving before the flame gets going strong . Be careful pay close attention to each round and if you get something other than a very robust report and kick , stop and investigate . Kevin

 

[silicosys4]

A lot of people will tell you squib loads are obvious. My experience was the opposite when I recently had one out of a batch of .38 spcl ammo I had loaded (158 gr lrn, cci spp, 3.4 gr. unique), and I'm very lucky it
1. stuck halfway between the cylinder and forcing cone, locking the revolver up without causing damage
2. was the last round of the cylinder.
The loads were not particularly light so I wasn't really "listening" for a squib round, but the first indication that it was a light load was when I couldn't release the cylinder to eject the empties. For some reason, the charge sounded, and recoiled as hard as the others, and didn't give any indication of being light. Since, I've fired some truly "light" loads (350 fps 158 gr) and can guarantee I would have noticed even that light a loading at the time.

 

[C5rider]

Definitely some interesting posts and some great insights too!

Just goes to show that it CAN happen and I'll be sure to keep that in mind.

 

[C5rider]

Well, it happened

Was out at the range yesterday and on the second cylinder, all I heard was a faint "Pffttt!" and a puff of smoke.

First time I EVER had a squib, but as they say, there's a first for everything.

RC was right (like there was ANY doubt about that) and there was definitely a difference between the two. It was also very interesting how much dirtier the squib was from the regular pressure rounds. The black carbon filled up the bore in the cylinder, I assume, since the brass hadn't expanded under pressure of the powder, and allowed the soot to work it's way back up the bore of the cylinder. when I inspected the gun, the bullet was slightly up in the forcing cone.

We tapped it out and moved on with our lives, ever wiser, and better understanding that these things CAN happen and we need to be ever watchful. Anyways, I've got a "Shelf of shame" that I put rounds that are not quite ready for prime time and this will soon be up there among them. Now, before you think I'm accident-prone and wondering my future of reloading, that "Shelf" isn't really full, but more of an assemblage of bullets where I didn't have quite enough bell in the casing and shaved some lead, or cut into the bullet or, one time, the casing caved.

This will soon find it's home among the various reloading "misfits", hopefully, to help me (and those reading this thread) to be careful.

 

[Centurian22]

I know nothing of reloading for this caliber but something in the picture caught me off guard. It looks like there is a circumferential (there's my one big word of the day) groove around the bullet below/behind the canulure. Is that groove present in un-loaded bullets, or is your crimp causing that or is it some other artifact of this specific squib load?

As previously stated I do not reload for this caliber (the closest I get is .32S&W Long) but I'm curious (probably to be answered by RC or someone with way more experience than me) if it is a roll crimp that is causing that groove, could that be:
1) Damaging the jacket to a dangerous point?
2) More likely to cause a squib or other failure due to not holding the bullet as tightly as if it were crimped in the canulure?
3) If its meant to be seated to the point of crimping in the canulure and you aren't seating it that far could you be creating an 'under pressure/greater volume' senario (is your COAL to spec)?

Just trying to learn from something that caught a newbie reloader off guard in the pic. Sorry if I'm totally 'out of line' in my questions.

Congrats on recognizing the squib and proceeding safely.