HammerBite
Member
Further note that this thread, in which people are critical of moderators' decisions, is still open. The moderators seem pretty liberal.
The 1st Amend here on THR.
- Thread starter MT GUNNY
- Start date
- Status
I have been a member here for only a short while. I must say that the mods do a great job at a sometimes thankless task. Some one has to! I have found it very interesting to look for locked threads and see what has transpired in them to earn a lock. What I have seen so far tells me that THR is doing a bang-up (kudos) job of accomplishing the mission. There have been more than a few times I have wanted to fire off a rather pointed statement, but then I think "High Road" and either edit or don't say it at all.
Again, a big thanks to the mods for keeping things on the up and up.
Again, a big thanks to the mods for keeping things on the up and up.
tydephan
Member
Owens said:
Ah...alas...the key point.
All this talk of free speech yada yada ad nauseam.
Here is the point, people:
Think twice. Post once.
I would estimate that at least 300-400 times (see my post count - that equals ~ 50% of the time) I have hit the reply button and formulated a response (not necessarily vulgar or pithy). Before I hit the "submit reply" button, I reread and realize that my words do nothing to move the discussion forward. So I cancel the reply.
It is really that simple.
Make sure your words carry weight. Make sure your thoughts are coherent. Not everyone can be Nathaniel Hawthorne, but good elementary english and solid sentence structures do help other members contribute to your discussion.
And on the point of not allowing "dead-horse" topics:
It's not that these topics have been beaten to death (although many have). It is that certain topics always end the same way - badly.
No one's rights have been violated. The moderators make decisions about threads. I don't agree with all of them, but so what. I stand beside them 99% of the time.
And despite all the hurt feelings and closed threads...the world still spins.
I have had 2 threads I started closed. One was another SHTF.
The other was based on my current sig line. That one was vaporized, not closed but gone. After asking a mod I found that some Jerk started posting very illegal comments about the President. I know if I were a Mod I wouldnt want those comments on my board for many many many reasons.
I do not agree with everything. But, It is the best out there, and the quality of members and mods is top notch. To all of you thank you.
The other was based on my current sig line. That one was vaporized, not closed but gone. After asking a mod I found that some Jerk started posting very illegal comments about the President. I know if I were a Mod I wouldnt want those comments on my board for many many many reasons.
I do not agree with everything. But, It is the best out there, and the quality of members and mods is top notch. To all of you thank you.
Sometimes a thread is removed as a mercy deletion. Some are so mangled and confused, the grammar and spelling so fractured, that removal protects the OP from being ripped by other members. Be careful what you ask for.
MT GUNNY
Member
Moderators; Is it posible to remove a post in a thread, that would alow
the thread to continue?
the thread to continue?
XD Fan
Member
I just read a locked thread that Justin had the gall to close because it had absolutly nothing to do with firearms. Imagine! The nerve of him. We should be able to clog up the works here at THR with any topic we want regardless of relevance to this forum's stated purpose.
(Please note the sarcasm dripping from my post.)
(Please note the sarcasm dripping from my post.)
Aguila Blanca
Member
How does locking threads on THR in any way relate to "The Congress shall enact no law abridging the freedom of speech ..."?
I'm all for overmoderation!
Spend some time on an ATV forum. Lots of name calling, my quad is faster than yours, blah blah blah. I like that not only do the mods police the threads, so do the people on this forum. If you don't like it you can always find a forum more suited to your tastes. I find that I get more frustrated with people here being rude, posting stuff with no links to back it up, etc. I also really don't need to hear any more of the PDRK, California, Billary type comments but when that stuff starts to wear on me I just don't log onto THR for a while.
Spend some time on an ATV forum. Lots of name calling, my quad is faster than yours, blah blah blah. I like that not only do the mods police the threads, so do the people on this forum. If you don't like it you can always find a forum more suited to your tastes. I find that I get more frustrated with people here being rude, posting stuff with no links to back it up, etc. I also really don't need to hear any more of the PDRK, California, Billary type comments but when that stuff starts to wear on me I just don't log onto THR for a while.
BullfrogKen
Moderator Emeritus
We do. All the time. The problem is folks do not read the thread before posting to it. Out of a 75 post thread, most contributors might read the first 10, then simply reply. The 3 "let's get back on track" posts we made at #25, #42, and #65 don't get seen. So, we either begin deleting crap, or just lock it.
And we have no duty to ensure your thread lives. If you aren't able to figure out a "what rifle for elephant" thread doesn't belong Strategies and Tactics, it will get locked. If we're not busy doing real life stuff, we might be polite and move it. When one starts a thread, its up to the poster to ensure he pays attention to the forum rules, and the etiquitte of the subforum, not the Moderator.
Often we do move threads; in fact most times we do. You just simply don't pay attention.
Not when you start it, its not. You said you started that thread. What possible purpose would it serve to delete the opening post and leave the responses?
Any long standing forum will have plenty of members that have been around a long time that aren't very tolerant of newbie questions. While most everything posted here is available for anyone to search for, grumbling about "dang kids!" doesn't help the "dang kids" learn.
OTOH, most of us read active threads and then searched previous ones for information that could be of interest when we started out. Spoon feeding shouldn't be necessary where the information is available at the tip of your fingers.
So, there's a responsibility for the new folks not to be lazy and try to get to spoon feed them and a responsibility for us "old timers" not to be too much like grumpy old gunshop denizens and try to help the folks that have tried to help themselves.
It's easy to forget that many of us were newbies at one point.
OTOH, most of us read active threads and then searched previous ones for information that could be of interest when we started out. Spoon feeding shouldn't be necessary where the information is available at the tip of your fingers.
So, there's a responsibility for the new folks not to be lazy and try to get to spoon feed them and a responsibility for us "old timers" not to be too much like grumpy old gunshop denizens and try to help the folks that have tried to help themselves.
It's easy to forget that many of us were newbies at one point.
indie
Member
thats my exact issue hso.
Im not very easilly offended or sensitive, so closing a thread wouldnt personally hurt my feelings, nor would a little back and forth with another member.
but i just am speaking for the sake of other guys similarly situated who are new, and are asking these questions. There are alot of "grumpy old man" type responses, alot of condescending sarcasm, and downright rudeness to the newbies around here. I just think its going to end up making THR have less new blood, and overall, negatively impact the activity of the forum if guys cant be cut some slack for rehashing old topics. I think the rudest recurring thing i have seen on this forum is the "stop beating a dead horse" and "oh great, we've never discussed this before" comments.
kudo's to you as a moderator and experienced THR member for expressing understanding of the other side of things.
Im not very easilly offended or sensitive, so closing a thread wouldnt personally hurt my feelings, nor would a little back and forth with another member.
but i just am speaking for the sake of other guys similarly situated who are new, and are asking these questions. There are alot of "grumpy old man" type responses, alot of condescending sarcasm, and downright rudeness to the newbies around here. I just think its going to end up making THR have less new blood, and overall, negatively impact the activity of the forum if guys cant be cut some slack for rehashing old topics. I think the rudest recurring thing i have seen on this forum is the "stop beating a dead horse" and "oh great, we've never discussed this before" comments.
kudo's to you as a moderator and experienced THR member for expressing understanding of the other side of things.
tydephan
Member
indie,
I agree with your point that there has been a lack of patience from some members. But this will never change. On the whole, it is still much better than other fora.
Try going over to Glocktalk and posting the DEA agent video and see how long it is before someone points out what an uninformed moron you are.
I always try to be as helpful as possible.
For example, a fairly new member recently posted a thread about a new technology that has been discussed on this and other fora for the past 2 years. Instead of posting something like "The search function is your friend," I actually did a search, review some of the old threads, copied and pasted some of the better ones, and posted a reply to let him know that the issue had been discussed in the past and he could find more information from xx threads. In addition, I summarized the popular consensus regarding the technology.
It is our responsibility to help folks, regardless of "newb" or "old fart" status.
The more we do this, the better the community functions and less intrusion is needed from the mods.
I agree with your point that there has been a lack of patience from some members. But this will never change. On the whole, it is still much better than other fora.
Try going over to Glocktalk and posting the DEA agent video and see how long it is before someone points out what an uninformed moron you are.
I always try to be as helpful as possible.
For example, a fairly new member recently posted a thread about a new technology that has been discussed on this and other fora for the past 2 years. Instead of posting something like "The search function is your friend," I actually did a search, review some of the old threads, copied and pasted some of the better ones, and posted a reply to let him know that the issue had been discussed in the past and he could find more information from xx threads. In addition, I summarized the popular consensus regarding the technology.
It is our responsibility to help folks, regardless of "newb" or "old fart" status.
The more we do this, the better the community functions and less intrusion is needed from the mods.
MT GUNNY
Member
Bullfrogken Im not talking about a thread i started, just any thread for example,
So n so starts a thread, the fifth POST is from sombody that uses Vulgarity,
delete the post not the start thread
So n so starts a thread, the fifth POST is from sombody that uses Vulgarity,
delete the post not the start thread
Byron Quick
Moderator In Memoriam
Threads get closed for many reasons. Posts get pruned from threads for many reasons. Posts do not get pruned from threads for many reasons.
Sometimes the topic of the thread has no relation to THR's mission. Guess what? The moderators are not infringing upon your First Amendment rights to free speech, consider it a subtle suggestion to practice your free speech rights elsewhere on the internet-preferably on a board that covers whatever it is.
Sometimes moderators prune posts from threads that are otherwise off topic. But sometimes we have woeful experience with that member-we've pruned posts of his in the past and that extremely perceptive member will simply post the same puerile pap once again. That thread will be closed and the member's posts will be watched to see if he crosses over the line from puerile pap to bannable pap.
There is only so much time in the day. Sometimes a moderator has a choice to either close a thread or spend thirty minutes or so holding a member's hand while gently smoothing his ruffled feathers. Usually, in those circumstances, the thread will be closed. Please consider your hand held and your ruffled feathers gently smoothed.
There are some topics that experience has shown always devolve into non-THR invective. The moderators talk about these topics before deciding not to allow those topics to be discussed on THR. It usually comes down to a choice of banning the topics or banning the members participating who just seems to be absolutely incapable of discussing these topics within the parameters in place here. Kind of like hunting over a baited field for the moderators. So we don't allow the field to be baited.
Then there are topics that are popular but have been done to death and then stomped into a muddy paste, i.e, zombies, SHTF, amongst others. Use the search function for either and you'll be reading for days. We humbly apologize for limiting your free speech on these salient topics and suggest that you start the Zombie Stomper website and SHTF, what you gonna do? website for the edification of all whose rights have been trampled upon by us statists here at THR.
Sometimes the topic of the thread has no relation to THR's mission. Guess what? The moderators are not infringing upon your First Amendment rights to free speech, consider it a subtle suggestion to practice your free speech rights elsewhere on the internet-preferably on a board that covers whatever it is.
Sometimes moderators prune posts from threads that are otherwise off topic. But sometimes we have woeful experience with that member-we've pruned posts of his in the past and that extremely perceptive member will simply post the same puerile pap once again. That thread will be closed and the member's posts will be watched to see if he crosses over the line from puerile pap to bannable pap.
There is only so much time in the day. Sometimes a moderator has a choice to either close a thread or spend thirty minutes or so holding a member's hand while gently smoothing his ruffled feathers. Usually, in those circumstances, the thread will be closed. Please consider your hand held and your ruffled feathers gently smoothed.
There are some topics that experience has shown always devolve into non-THR invective. The moderators talk about these topics before deciding not to allow those topics to be discussed on THR. It usually comes down to a choice of banning the topics or banning the members participating who just seems to be absolutely incapable of discussing these topics within the parameters in place here. Kind of like hunting over a baited field for the moderators. So we don't allow the field to be baited.
Then there are topics that are popular but have been done to death and then stomped into a muddy paste, i.e, zombies, SHTF, amongst others. Use the search function for either and you'll be reading for days. We humbly apologize for limiting your free speech on these salient topics and suggest that you start the Zombie Stomper website and SHTF, what you gonna do? website for the edification of all whose rights have been trampled upon by us statists here at THR.
Lucas, it seems you are making an assumption that posts are not deleted in order to save a thread from closure. That is an incorrect assumption. There are hundreds upon hundreds of bad posts that are deleted and the thread is allowed to keep going. The problem is that you don't see those posts, therefore it's not at all plain to the general member that the actions we take to moderate here are a little more forgiving than you feel they are.lucas_flesher said:
Let me give you a challenge. Please go through the thread linked below page by page and report back here how many posts were deleted due to inappropriate language, unruly members, etc.: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=198566
You should note that that thread is old, long, and still open. Knowing what I know about it, it could have been locked some time last year if we only locked threads and didn't delete posts in order to save them from being locked. That is only one thread out of about 20 or so that have deleted posts from the last week - I didn't see a need to go back any further to prove my point.
Anyone who get into nitpicking moderation policy and second-guessing the mods has clearly never done the job themselves (particularly not on a board as big as THR). Mods work for the best interests of the board, and if one disagrees with their methods or actions, one ought to either get over it or find somewhere else to hang out.
It's a (mostly) thankless job, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone.
It's a (mostly) thankless job, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone.
A'men, brother!
For those that don't know, the mods are "drafted". Not a one volunteers nor gets compensated in any material way. You get asked, you accept after begging and wheedling, you do the best you can until you burn out and then you're replaced by someone that doesn't understand what's involved that believes in THR's mission of providing a website for civil discussion of firearms rights. It's like being a park/museum volunteer. You think you're doing good and you're doing as well as you can at it, but some folks keep clogging the toilets for amusement. It takes time away from our real lives and families. Detail cleaning each and every thread is a bit much to ask for all the time. We just try to throw out the guys that toss Baby Ruths in the pool.
BullfrogKen
Moderator Emeritus
Wow. See, I never thought of doing that.
Hey guys. There's an idea!!! How about, instead of locking every thread we see, we exercise discretion when we use our powers? Why haven't we ever thought of this?
scout26
Member
Yeah, but you guys get to wear the cool cape and tights.
I've always viewed this place as something akin to me being a guest in Oleg's house. If he (via the Mod's) says don't pee in the potted plants, then I won't pee in the potted plants. And if I should pee in potted plants, then I shouldn't act surprised when I get yelled at and/or get the bum's rush. It's not like the rules are under double secret probation and you don't know you've broken them until a Mod jumps in with a bad Monty Python accent asking "What's all this then ???"
And as I have explained to my daughter when she starts to get a little mouthy with her mother. You have no 1A rights in my house, I'm not Congress.
XavierBreath
Member
This is done frequently here. I, myself, will post at least once in a thread, often multiple times, attempting to get it back on track before closing it. I consider my "Let's get back on track" posts to be a shot over the bow. About half the time, I am ignored. I then close the thread when it fails to get back on track. I try to be nice and explain why it was closed, and if the original topic is a salient one, invite the members to start the thread anew and stay on topic.
Some threads have no applicable sub-forum. Other threads do. Tonight, I moved two threads, and shut down one spammer. Then I posted here.
That moderator would be me. I "vaporized" your thread because you had a title that was a more common version of Feces Occurs. Your title attracted my attention. Most members, after reading the forum rules would understand that such a title for a thread would not be acceptable. You might want to check Rule 3. The Forum Rules have a link at the upper right of every THR page.
I tried to change your title, but I was unable to. I read your post. It was almost incomprehensible to me. Two other members had posted to your thread were openly wondering what you were talking about. It was a thread ripe for a flame fest.
Your hour's investment into the writing of your thread would likely have resulted in hard feelings and bitterness between members trying to figure out what you were saying, and yourself. It had an objectionable title that was in all caps that stuck out in the General Discussion forum like a turd in a punch bowl. Thus, when I could not make your thread's title less offensive, and two members other than myself could not understand what you were trying to express anyway, I moved it to an area where it would not offend, and you would not be flamed.
I hope this explains things a bit for you. I apologize for any anguish I caused.
Anyone want to talk guns?
Aguila Blanca
Member
As a moderator on another forum and a former moderator on yet another forum, I too say "Amen" to that. Being a moderator of a forum such as this can soak up huge chunks of the moderators' time, and severely try their patience. On the forum I currently moderate, hardly a week goes by that I don't whine to the other moderators that I feel like I'm running a nursery school. The rules on our forum are not dissimilar to those here at THR, but they are spelled out in even more detail.hso said:
To no avail, because even though people are told to read the rules while registering, and then reminded again to read the rules while registering, and then sign a statement that they have read the rules and agree to them ... and then get another reminder to read the rules with their welcoming e-mail ... they still break the rules, and then moan and groan and do the first amendment violation gambit when they get called on violating the rules.
It's really a wonder that anyone survives being a moderator for more than a week. If you don't believe it ... try it.
PotatoJudge
Member
Nothing can bring you down like looking over and seeing "Moderator Emeritus" under a person's name, like we did something to run them off.
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