The .357 Magnum Legend....

So apparently the Border Patrol after some intensive testing in 1984, selected a 110gr .357 magnum JHP, outperforming the 145gr Silvertip .357 load. Though they did allow the 145gr load and the 125gr too, at the agent's own expense. Interestingly, the 110gr load penetrated 9-12" in 20% ballistic gelatin and reliably fragmented violently about 3" into the block.
 

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The adage "Experience is the best teacher; reading provides the roadmap" underscores the distinct yet complementary roles that experiential learning and reading play in the process of acquiring knowledge and understanding.

While reading equips individuals with a comprehensive framework of theoretical concepts, historical context, and expert insights, experiential learning engages the senses and facilitates a deeper, firsthand comprehension of the subject matter. Reading offers a structured foundation by presenting a curated collection of ideas and perspectives, thereby serving as a roadmap to navigate complex subjects.

However, experience brings a dynamic and multifaceted dimension to learning, allowing individuals to apply theoretical knowledge in real-world scenarios, adapt to unexpected challenges, and internalize lessons through trial and error. In essence, this saying acknowledges the synergy between intellectual preparation gained through reading and the practical wisdom gleaned from active engagement, illustrating that both avenues contribute indispensably to a holistic and well-rounded education.

While I recognize the merits of both approaches, I hold a higher regard for practical experience as opposed to theoretical concepts presented in writing. In my view, individuals who possess genuine hands-on involvement offer invaluable insights that stem from personal encounters with the subject matter. The depth of understanding that comes from encountering real-world challenges and engaging in experiential learning cannot be replicated solely through reading about theoretical constructs.

The authentic wisdom gained from firsthand experience adds a layer of authenticity and depth to comprehension, enabling us to navigate complexities with a heightened level of adaptability and nuanced awareness from actual results derived from real life encounters.
Well said.

I met a welder once with 35 years of experience. That's actually quite unusual, as most don't make it that long in the trade. He was terrible. His understanding was limited, his approach poor, and his techniques sub-standard.

Others with fewer years have written articles and books displaying a far deeper knowledge and understanding of the subject.

Not all experience is good experience.
 
.357 Magnum had three things going for it that contributed to its legend:

1. A frightening cannon-like muzzle blast,

2. A giant, intimidating fireball muzzle flash, and

3. Enough velocity to propel crudely designed bullets (crude, as when compared to modern expanding bullet designs) fast enough to reliably expand in soft tissue.
 
When I was a kid in elementary school us boys would gather and discuss things familiar to boys, like; pocket knives, bicycles, tree houses, fishing, etc. Then came the banter about guns that kids learned from their Dad’s and some of the conversations were quite comical looking back on them later in life.
One subject that just wouldn’t go away was this ability for a .357 Magnum to “crack an engine block” when fired from a skilled Pennsylvania State Trooper’s revolver.
I had a friend whose Dad just happened to be a State Trooper so I asked him about it. He told me that the State Police conducted a lot of testing and found the .357 Magnum was a formidable cartridge but in their testing the .357 could render a car undrivable because it could take out the cooling system (tearing holes in the radiator and hoses and water pump) or the electrical system (puncturing the battery or wreaking havoc on the alternator). He said the bullets could tear up aluminum heads or components but a solid steel engine block was still pretty safe from a .357 Magnum bullet.

Now, this is what I remember from when I was like 9 years old. I was totally enamored with big revolvers and the .357 Magnum way back then. This conversation with an actual State Trooper was quite a highlight for me.

I literally spent two hours today looking for any tests, studies or reports from police departments testing the .357 Magnum for use by their officers. I really didn’t find much. Perhaps it’s because all that old information is archived away somewhere on paper but never scanned and stored on a computer system or online.

It’s kind of a bummer, actually.
 
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It's a great recipe for "social" work. It's loud and effective against people, pretty gnarly combination.
 
The .357 magnum had a big reputation in the 1930's as it was the most powerful, factory loaded handgun round. Yes, it was powerful, bu they used 8 inch plus barrels when they went hunting and as a police-self defense round the original "hot" load that Jeff COOPER was so in love with was a good hunting round, but not such a good police-defense round. The 158 lead semi wadcutter would penetrate deeply, but that is not a good thing for police use.
The .357 magnum got it "MANSTOPPER" reputation from the 125 grain SJHP load put out by REMINGTON. You did not need an exotic bulltet to get good results. This load does NOT penetrate deeply. It hits and expands very quickly. As to being downloaded, I suggest you fire a cylinder full of the 125 grain REMINGTON'S and see how downloaded it it.
My agency issued it for a decade and had no complaints from the field.
The REMINGTON 125 grain sjhp, a very cnventional bullet worked really well because of the high velocity. Remember, that the 158 grain jacketed ammo is only going to reach 1200 to 1250 fps out of a 4 inch barrel, while the REMINGTON 125 will get a REAL 1450 to 1500 fps out of the same barrel. That velocity made the 125 grain sjhp the king for a long time.
On the other hand, we blew up a S&W model 13 using it. Those carrying the model 13 were ordered to carry the 110 grain load instead.

All the naysayers about the weak 9m.m. and .38 Special loads used today forget that bullet technology has come a long way. I keep my RUGER Security Six loaded with .38 Special +P ammo like either FEDERAL HST 130 grain jhp or WINCHESTER PDX-1 130 grain jhp. I get much shorter recovery times between shots with this ammo than with the 110 or 125 grain .357 ammo. With premium bullets, I get the fast and wide expansion that I want without all the noise, flash and recoil.

Jim
 
Nice! This is kind of what I was looking for when I was doing my searches.
I like that recommendation regarding “the .357 Magnum in all barrel lengths - Remington 125 gr. SJHP”;)
The .38 Special ones kind of threw me though. 95 grain for 2” barrel and 110 grain for 4” barrels? Weird (using my thinking of today)
 
Nice! This is kind of what I was looking for when I was doing my searches.
I like that recommendation regarding “the .357 Magnum in all barrel lengths - Remington 125 gr. SJHP”;)
The .38 Special ones kind of threw me though. 95 grain for 2” barrel and 110 grain for 4” barrels? Weird (using my thinking of today)
Check out this one....even better. Starting on Page 92 of the document they posted very interesting survey data from 46 different state police agencies. It is kind of a long read, but shows that in the 70's agencies were all over the place with caliber selections. Oklahoma noted that officers were switching from the .357 to .41's and .44's. Nevada noted that the transition to .41's was unsuccessful and they were switching back to .357's. And kind of cool that several states issued the .38/44.

Police Handguns and Deadly Force
 
It was the study. I forget the names. It's been mentioned already in this thread. It was considered gospel in gun mags for years in the 80's or whenever. That's where a lot of the older and middle-aged guys heard about the "legend", possibly second-hand.
 
We were shown a film as part of our training about a female police officer who was mugged in her driveway as she returned home.

She was shot several times, but she stayed in the fight and killed all, I believe it was three, of her assailants.

So as far as I’m concerned, mental attitude has as much to do with it as anything. Of course, a shot to the central nervous system will put someone down, regardless.
 
When I was just a pup my older brother regaled me with tales of the .357 Magnum. He even told me how it could crack an engine block in half. Well fast forward a day or 2 after mesmerizing me with the .357 tales, and I'm on my way home from elementary school (2nd grade) and we happen upon a car accident with blocked traffic. I leaned out the window and asked the cop standing there: "hey, is that a .357 Magnum?". His response was "yes it is", with a very confused look on his face. God only knows what he was thinking.

I am a fan of the .357 BTW and have had several trhough the years.
 
We were shown a film as part of our training about a female police officer who was mugged in her driveway as she returned home.

She was shot several times, but she stayed in the fight and killed all, I believe it was three, of her assailants.

So as far as I’m concerned, mental attitude has as much to do with it as anything. Of course, a shot to the central nervous system will put someone down, regardless.
That would be LAPD officer Stacy Lim.

See - https://www.police1.com/officer-saf...tacy-lims-story-of-survival-J2ay86axRN55pvP8/
 
AFAIK the .357 was the first of the magnum handgun cartridges, hence the legends. Recall hearing back in the 1950s that a 44 Magnum coukld crack a car's engine block at 15 yards, no mention if the engine block was mounted in the car or not. As noted puncturing a car's radiator will slow it down PDQ.
 
Thank you @ECVMatt Excellent information. :)

I bookmarked both of those documents you provided.

In the early 80’s, after I got out of the Navy I made friends with a guy in Navy Reserves that took me Bullseye shooting and introduced me to a bunch of his friends, all police officers from local jurisdictions. They all carried S&W model 19s except one, he had a model 28 and they all practiced with .38 Special and shot Bullseye matches with their 19s using .38 Special Ammo. Many of them after a match would shoot .357 Magnum rounds “to stay in real world practice”.
I recall a party at my friend’s house with a few police officers there and the discussion was about some talk that LAPD was looking at switching to 9mm semiautos. I remember all of them saying there was no way they would switch without being forced to.
I guess eventually they were forced to.
I do remember them talking about a test that LAPD conducted regarding .38 Special, .357 Magnum and 9mm. I have searched high and low for that test online without any luck.
It would be neat to see what that test showed. I am pretty sure that test was done in 86 or 87.
 
When I was just a pup my older brother regaled me with tales of the .357 Magnum. He even told me how it could crack an engine block in half. Well fast forward a day or 2 after mesmerizing me with the .357 tales, and I'm on my way home from elementary school (2nd grade) and we happen upon a car accident with blocked traffic. I leaned out the window and asked the cop standing there: "hey, is that a .357 Magnum?". His response was "yes it is", with a very confused look on his face. God only knows what he was thinking.

I am a fan of the .357 BTW and have had several trhough the years.
I might have been the COP!
I got asked many times if my revolver was a “magnum”…
After we transitioned to the G22, I’d get asked “is that a 9?
I’d reply “No, it’s a 10!” (.40 =10mm). Got a few “HUH?, and “WHUTS”?
Ironically, the .40S&W ammo I carried was a 155gr Winchester SilverTips that got 1,205fps from the G22. About the as a 158gr JHP from a 4” M686….
And they call the .40 “short&weak”…..(not!).
 
There was one case in California, when I lived there. Two highway Parol Officers had stopped a drug dealer. He was big and heavy, and piled out of his truck with a 12 gauge shotgun in his hands, yelling "I have the blood of Jesus in my veins!" iirc. The Officers were armed with 357 Magnum revolvers, and the gunfight began. The dealer absorbed 12 357 Magnum rounds and survived to be convicted. Say what you may about caliber and capacity, one shot stops do happen, but not all the time. The result would probably have been the same, regardless of the caliber, and fortunately, the Officers were not injured.
 
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