The 9mm is the thinking man's caliber.

[Ric]

I'm going to the range today and shoot my 9mm and my 45.

And I'll have fun with all of them
Glock, Springer, Para, Colt, one big happy family.

 

[mete]

If it's 'powerful' why does it need a +P or +P+ ??

 

[Boats]

but I still don't get it. The 9mm. is not a bad round by any stretch, it has done well for a long time. It actually predates the .45acp, if I remember right. What I don't get is the insatiable desire of 9mm. shooters to "convert" the rest of us. You chose a decent round. I chose a decent round. You prefer yours, I like mine. Choose a good platform if you haven't already and leave me alone. I'm gonna go clean my Gubmint Model now.

It's a different strain of small man's disease.

Personally, I like .357 Magnum better than anything coming out of an auto pistol.

 

[meathammer]

Generally I have seen .45 to be up to twice more expensive than 9mm.

That's cuz it is TWICE the round.

Let's take common practice ammo for example:

.45acp=230gr
9mm=115gr

115+115=230

Yep, two 9mm = 1 45acp



Just kidding!

Shoot what you like!

--meathammer

 

[warriorsociologist]

LOL....and I thought 10mm was the "thinking man's caliber." Afterall, it's 1mm bigger and better than a 9mm...right? Seriously, since I reload and have somewhere in the neighborhood of 5500 rds in 10mm ammo & casings "lying around," 10mm IS cheap for ME to shoot (now). Also, loading for a 9mm is a PITA. 10mm is my .357/41 mag in an autoloader choice. FWIW, my other favs do include 9mm (147gr Ranget T), but also .38 Spec. (130gr. +P, and .357 mag (125-158gr).
YMMV.

 

[Geno]

Make mine a .45...

I just can't figure out how to crowbar those .458 Winchesters into my 1911?! Maybe the .45-70 Gov't will fit? Ba-ha!

In all seriousness, I like both, and I carry both...9mm and .45. I carry one over the other based where I am and what I anticipate might be a potential threat.

But, to say the .45 can never penetrate as much as the 9MM I think is overstatement. I have seen some pretty potent .45 Super rounds. They looked to penetrqate on-par with the 9MM. I project that this debate will continue every bit as long as the .270 Win. V. .30-06 Sprg. debate. On no...did I just open another Pandora's debate? Probably not. We all know the .270 is superior as is the .45 ACP.

Double Maduro...you are correct. If price is the concern, .22LR is the way to go, and there are .22 upper conversions for everything from 1911s to Glocks, to AR rifles. I love to hunt rabbit and squirrel with my .22LR upper on my 1911. Close range sure, but it's a great challenge, and hunting season is FAST approaching! Yeah!

Doc2005

 

[Sistema1927]

They say that Helen Mirren is the "thinking man's sex symbol". Even at that, I still don't mind seeing young ladies on the silver screen.

Room in this world for both the 9mm and the .45.

 

[Double Maduro]

think the big three (9mm, 40, 45) are all excellent rounds given the extreme limitations that ALL handgun rounds have in the work of stopping a potential attacker

+1


PCRCCW,

"11. Gestalt? I tend towards a more Zen approach."

1) Gestalt is psychology theory.........

2) Zen is a spiritual theory.................

My point exactly!

When applied to calibers for your ccw it amounts to about the same thing, trust and faith.

Folks,

I really and truly believe, that for a ccw caliber, you should carry the largest that you can shoot well. For me the caliber I shoot best is .41 magnum. Now this is not usually found chambered in a viable ccw platform.

I am almost as good with .45 and (yes I know it is bigger-but you know what I mean) feel quite confidant with my Ruger P90. If you feel the same with 9mm go for it, I will make no disparaging remarks about your manhood or testosterone levels or even your intelligence. The same goes if you choose 9x18, .380, .32, .25 or even (GASP) .22. If you can shoot it well and you are comfortable with it, go for it.

There is no one caliber that is best in every situation. I am confidant that most of the time, FOR ME, that .45 will do what I need it to do.

I have never and will never tell someone that their choice of a caliber for sd/ccw is wrong. My best friend carries a .380, if I was going to criticize anyone it would be him.

If I could, I would open carry my Remington 870 in 12ga and a Ruger .41 magnum. This is not a viable option to most of us here, you rats that live in the wilds of Alaska excluded.

So, while I agree that we should all "think" about what we carry and why, I don't believe that we should all carry the same thing.

If we each "think" about it, we will come up with what is right for us.

DM

 

[Double Maduro]

Doc2005,

I love to hunt rabbit and squirrel with my .22LR upper on my 1911. Close range sure, but it's a great challenge, and hunting season is FAST approaching! Yeah!

When are we going. Of course I'll have to use my 22/45, I don't have a conversion.

Good luck this fall. It's been way to long since I've had a good squirrel stew.

MMMMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmMMMMMMMM, squirrel.

DM

 

[astraman]

9mm & 45

i agree that the .45 is easier to reload & that the 9mm is cheaper ot the store. at walmart 100 rds of 9mm is about $10, while 100 rds of .45 is around $ 20. my astra a100 holds 18 rds of 9mm, while my astra a75 holds only 7 rds of .45(close in size to a kahr). i like them both a lot better than a .40.

 

[CougarRed]

Life is a trade off.

9mms are cheaper, offer more capacity, and can be shot in small guns.

45s create bigger holes.

40S&Ws offer more capacity than 45s but less than 9mms. Bigger holes than 9mms but smaller than 45s. Can be shot in smaller guns than 45s.

They all work! To each his own.

 

[mattw]

Simply put, the .45 is twice as heavy as the 9mm while being almost as fast.

850 feet per second is pretty damn fast if you ask me.

 

[PJR]

9mm may be the thinking man's caliber but I don't ever want to be in a critical situation where what this man might thinking is, "Damn I wish I had a bigger caliber."

 

[petrel800]

3. More choices of loads than any other caliber.

May want to rethink that one.

http://recipes.alliantpowder.com/rg.taf?_function=pistolrevolver&step=1

9mm Luger
Bullet - 95 FMJ | 115 FMJ | 115 JHP | 125 FMJ | 125 L | 147 XTP |

.357 Mag.
Bullet - 110 JHP | 125 JSP | 148 LWC | 148 LWC (target) | 158 JSP | 158 LSWC | 170 FMJ | 180 JFP | 200 LRN |

.44 Rem. Mag.
Bullet - 180 JHC | 200 JHP | 225 JHP | 240 JSP | 240 L (GC) | Swift 240 HP | 265 JFP | Swift 280 HP | 300 HP/XTP | Swift 300 HP | 310 LSWC |

.45 ACP
Bullet - 155 Cast Lead | 180 LWC | 185 JHP | 185 LWC | 200 JHP | 200 Lead SWC | 200 LSW (target) | 230 FMC | 230 JHP | 230 L (target) | 240 JHC | 240 JHP | 260 JHP |

10mm Auto
Bullet - 135 JHP | 150 JHP | 155 HP | 155 L | 170 HP | 180 JHP | 180 L | 190 JFP | 200 FMJ |

 

[armoredman]

I have also loaded 9mm 115gr LRN, 125gr JHP, 124 gr JHP, seen 135gr Fed JHP, and some others. Alliant doesn't have all bullet styles listed for everything....not that it matters. I like my 9mm. You can have your 45 and 40s, I have had both, and right now, I like and trust my 9mm. If in a serious situation requiring serious firepower, I may be wishing for a rifle or shotgun long before wishing my 9 was a 45.

 

[albanian]

'But, to say the .45 can never penetrate as much as the 9MM I think is overstatement. I have seen some pretty potent .45 Super rounds. They looked to penetrqate on-par with the 9MM. "

Is a .45 Super a .45 ACP? No, I think not. We are not talking about .45 Super when we say "45" anymore than we are talking about 9x23mm when we say "9mm". I didn't think I had to spell out every bit of every word and include a statement from a laywer in fine print at the bottom to avoid misunderstandings. Now I see why people can get away with lawsuits when the coffey is too hot or they stick their hand in the running lawn mower to clear out the grass. "Well, there was no sing that told me it was dangerous so I have a right to sue". Wake up and learn to read between the lines. Coffey is hot, spinning lawnmower blades can cut you and ".45" stands for ".45 ACP" unless otherwise stated when talking about autos. Oh, I guess I have to spell that out as well, I meant "SEMI-AUTOMATIC PISTOLS".

I got this from a source online that I thought added a bit of common sense to the argument over penetration:

"One word about depth of penetration. Some people in law enforcement hold that too much penetration with ammunition used for self defense is a bad thing. They warn that a bullet that passes through a target may hit someone else resulting in all kinds of law suits. However, considering that according to action reports from the NYPD that 80 - 90 percent of the shots fired in law enforcement situations fail to even hit the target (Gunsite, Thunder Ranch, and a few other school grads excepted!) I wouldn't worry too much if your ammo is penetrative. Better too much than not enough when the chips are down."

 

[JohnKSa]

What I don't get is the insatiable desire of 9mm. shooters to "convert" the rest of us.

Hmmm... That's hardly been my experience. I've seen just the opposite to be much, much more common. In fact, I've even seen people accused of wanting to harm their families because they chose something other than the .45ACP (i.e. something the accuser felt was less effective) for home defense. To pick just one example.

If it's 'powerful' why does it need a +P or +P+

By that logic, 32ACP is powerful but the .45ACP is not. Because there is no .32ACP +P but there is .45ACP +P.

.45 ACP has nearly 80% of the velocity of the 9mm while having nearly 200% of its mass.

Simply put, the .45 is twice as heavy as the 9mm while being almost as fast.

To be a bit more accurate. If you compare the 115gr 9mm to the 230gr .45ACP, the .45ACP has almost 75% of the velocity of the 9mm while having exactly 200% of its mass. Looking at that from a slightly different point of view says that the 9mm has about 92% of the muzzle energy of the .45ACP with less than 2/3rds of the recoil of the .45

 

[Velocity229]

Momentum, mass and velocity are directly related. This applies to bullets also.

A 9mm+P 115 GR. projectile going 1350 FPS does not even come close to the power or momentum of a 45ACP 230 GR. Projectile going 880 FPS.

How well does a 9mm keep it's momentum?

The 9mm going through bone will perform poorly compared to a 45 through bone.

 

[Velocity229]

a 90 gr jhp, at 1600 fps, makes the 230 gr .45 jhp, at 850 fps, look pathetic by comparison. Paper talk is just that, talk.

Actually at those numbers, you would have power just barely more than a standard 9mm. (115 gr. @ 1,200fps) which is significantly weaker than a 45 ACP 230 grain @ 850 fps.

It may be paper talk, but bullets apply to it and so does physics.

 

[JohnKSa]

Velocity299,

You have twice used the word "power" as if it is a physics term. What is the definition of "power" as you are using it?

 

[Velocity229]

Velocity99,

You have twice used the word "power" as if it is a physics term. What is the definition of "power" as you are using it?

Power is the amount of work per unit of time.

 

[JohnKSa]

So, what is the "power" of the 115gr 9mm and the 230gr .45ACP using this definition and the velocity numbers from your previous post?

 

[Velocity229]

So, what is the "power" of the 115gr 9mm and the 230gr .45ACP using this definition and the velocity numbers from your previous post?

These are momentums:

9mm: 115 gr pushed at 1,200 fps = 138
45ACP: 230 gr pushed at 880 fps = 202.4

 

[mattw]

why are you guys compairing the lightest 9mm load with the heavies .45 load? I'll bet the 185 gr or 200gr .45 loads travel alot faster than 800 or 900 fps

 

[JohnKSa]

J=Joules is a measure of energy, not power.

As nearly as I can tell, your numbers are the product of the weight of the bullets in grains and the velocity in fps divided by 1,000. That is momentum although the scaling is not correct.

Momentum is not a measure of power either.

mattw,

Standard pressure .45ACP

230gr 850fps
185gr 950fps