The AR platform....the fans...I don't get it. (all brand fans I guess)

[fpgt72]

I just don't get it. Yes I own one....just one, and I have owned it for over 30 years. Colt HBAR. It shoots fine, works fine....but I just don't get the rabid....and many are rabid fans.

The magazine thread brought this up....I don't get why a product would be discounted if it did not have an AR magazine. The same goes to Glock fans....I don't get it. We have them (glocks) at work and it is just a claw hammer....nothing special....no more reliable then any other pistol (of the same quality).

But the AR guys seem to go well past all that, they decide that a hot rod 22 is not enough, so they start changing things to make them bigger....not accurate enough different "upper" again...not good for that, change this....visit the barbie catalog and start to hang all manner of garbage on the side of a gun.

If this is your hobby...fine, I get that....at one time I raced cars....I have the almost 6 figures in my race car....money down the drain and spent in a really stupid manner to some...ok I get that...but again the AR guys go past this.

If it is not an AR we move past it....if it does not take an AR magazine.....just read the comments in the ar thread....just makes me go wow...you really are a rabid fanboi.

It reminds me of a saying.

I don't mind Religion....it is the fan club members that get too worked up.

 

[Ed4032]

Sacrilegous heresy!! Burn the witch.

Just kidding. I think that is has become the erector set we had as kids. The cool part is that this erector set shoots bullets.

 

[taliv]

there may be many reliable semi auto plastic pistols on the market today, but glocks were arguably the first and retain a significant market share. it doesn't take a genius to figure out why their mags are popular and a de facto standard.

ARs are somewhat different in that there are relatively few carbines on the market that are as capable. go to a 3gun match and you will see the top competitors are always using ARs. the top military units always use them. the jury is in. there's nothing else in its class. further, a bazillion magazines have been manufactured for the AR, and they are regularly 1/3rd the price of mags for other rifles.

some people get excited about that. whatever.

what i do find interesting about this topic is that the Achilles heel of the AR was always the magazine. that's where probably half of the malfunctions come from and the mags are generally considered disposable. second guessing the magazine design after 50 years could go either way i guess. i wonder how things might be different today if the AR had been designed with a mag more like the m14 mag,

 

[mjsdwash]

all i can say is that I like them, but a colt hbar can easily ruin the design... and when they were the only style available I thought the rifle was silly and pointless with the handling of a 4x4 of lumber, and the weight of a cinderblock. A pencil or lightweight 16' midlength with an A2 handle and colapsable stock is a different story at 6lbs or less its a totally different experience. Just my thought on it.

 

[mjsdwash]

I think the only reason the mag issue matters is because for decades now people have been demanding the Mini14 be made to take them, and once you get a snowball rolling, thats how it is. I still like fixed mags in bolt guns. Wish my Savage MK could be tweaked to top load, and I recall during the AWB glock distributors were trading used government issue mags or buying them back (the preban mags in inventory) and selling them to the public. LE was at the time (still) a huge Glock market, and those mags availability helped them become the go to source for cheap mags -though thats something I heard about in the 90's and believed because of the crates of used hicap police issue mags in some of the sleazier gunshops. Some beretta, S&W, Ruger too, but I couldn't promise its true.

 

[Bang!]

Hahahah! The go fast hobby is a lot worse than the AR hobby. I agree with everything else but I remember the days of, "I really need that cam and those heads". Marriage and kids saved me from that addiction. lol

I love the idea of AR's replacing participation trophies. The bigger the AR crowd the bigger the gun culture. People in the gun culture, IMHO, are a whole lot better Americans than the ANTIFA/PC/burn down city culture. We need to replace 'a chicken in every pot' with 'an AR in every home'. The more we bring into the AR crowd the less will end up in the skinny jeans crowd. Press on you tacti-cool folks. You worry me a whole lot less than what we see in today's news of the hate America hobby.

 

[cfullgraf]

But the AR guys seem to go well past all that, they decide that a hot rod 22 is not enough, so they start changing things to make them bigger....not accurate enough different "upper" again...not good for that, change this....visit the barbie catalog and start to hang all manner of garbage on the side of a gun.

Well, I don't get it either. A bolt action 30-06 should do just fine for everything. Why do the bolt fan boys want to have single shot, fixed magazines, or removable magazines. Then there are the different style stocks. Oh, yes, 30-06 is not accurate enough so lets rechamber/re-barrel the actions for all sorts of differ cartridges in the quest of tighter groups or more appropriate projectiles for the task at hand. And the beat goes on...

It's in our DNA to want to build something better.

I did not think much of the AR-15 before getting involved in Service Rifle competitions. I saw how accurate the AR-15's were. I learned how easy it was to make a very accurate rifle at home.

Yes, the AR-15 is a small action that limits it's cartridge capability but that is where the AR-10 comes in.

(While I like AR-15's, the current rifle project that I am working on is a bolt rifle chambered in 22 BR for my next prairie dog adventure).

 

[fpgt72]

there may be many reliable semi auto plastic pistols on the market today, but glocks were arguably the first and retain a significant market share. it doesn't take a genius to figure out why their mags are popular and a de facto standard......

I would disagree with that....to look at another group of fanbois....the 1911 group. Another group that has changed that thing 9 ways to sunday....turning it into something it was never designed to be. Why not that magazine.....the number of rounds....many came before it that held more and did have commercial success.

Really what tripped my trigger was the comments about I would not look twice at this product because it did not have an AR magazine.....just what?!?!? I have a nice slim and sexy CZ527 in 223, that would just look horrid, and take the function of the rifle.

 

[tarosean]

I am not sure of the thread you're referencing.
However, I have boxes and boxes of AR mags sitting around here. It would make financial sense to add another gun that could use them instead of buying tons of some other magazine. After all Maggazines are the weakest link in semi-auto guns. Its really got nothing to do with the +/- of another platform.
Same reason my PCC takes Glock mags. Already had a metric ton of glock mags.. No need to go out and buy something special.

 

[ColoradoMinuteMan]

To me it's not much of a mystery. I grew up with surplus rifles and have shot and owned a huge variety of rifles and carbines over my lifetime. At one point (about when Obama got elected) I became less of a collector, and more of a purpose driven firearm owner. While I kept a handful of family heirlooms, I rarely shoot them. Most of what I shoot are poly stocked rifles and and handguns. The AR is a very practical firearm. Its low cost to purchase, low cost to shoot, accurate, reliable, lightweight, configurable to every person, and you can buy replacement parts off the shelf in just about every gun store in America. There really isn't a more practical firearm that exists today. It's basically the Ford F150 of the firearms world. Not everyone in the world wants to drive an F150 and I get it. Heck I drive a Dodge 2500, but it also isn't a mystery why some people drive F150s. It's an affordable, reliable, and practical truck, seems like plenty of people would want it.

 

[fpgt72]

Well, I don't get it either. A bolt action 30-06 should do just fine for everything. Why do the bolt fan boys want to have single shot, fixed magazines, or removable magazines. Then there are the different style stocks. Oh, yes, 30-06 is not accurate enough so lets rechamber/re-barrel the actions for all sorts of differ cartridges in the quest of tighter groups or more appropriate projectiles for the task at hand. And the beat goes on...

It's in our DNA to want to build something better.

I did not think much of the AR-15 before getting involved in Service Rifle competitions. I saw how accurate the AR-15's were. I learned how easy it was to make a very accurate rifle at home.

Yes, the AR-15 is a small action that limits it's cartridge capability but that is where the AR-10 comes in.

(While I like AR-15's, the current rifle project that I am working on is a bolt rifle chambered in 22 BR for my next prairie dog adventure).

That is taking it to the absurd....and this is just what I was talking about. You are telling me that making an AR platform into an F class tool is easy-er over any other platform...nope. It is an OK design that is modular....that is it. It does nothing fantastic in its stock form, but nothing bad.....but it is a bit more easy....and by easy it means that every basement "gunsmith" can screw a barrel into an AR...or "build" one does not mean a thing.

I get that people like to tinker and change things....no issue with that. But why the AR....is it because BUBBA can do it and not screw it up so bad he blows himself up....most of the time.

 

[fpgt72]

To me it's not much of a mystery. I grew up with surplus rifles and have shot and owned a huge variety of rifles and carbines over my lifetime. At one point (about when Obama got elected) I became less of a collector, and more of a purpose driven firearm owner. While I kept a handful of family heirlooms, I rarely shoot them. Most of what I shoot are poly stocked rifles and and handguns. The AR is a very practical firearm. Its low cost to purchase, low cost to shoot, accurate, reliable, lightweight, configurable to every person, and you can buy replacement parts off the shelf in just about every gun store in America. There really isn't a more practical firearm that exists today. It's basically the Ford F150 of the firearms world. Not everyone in the world wants to drive an F150 and I get it. Heck I drive a Dodge 2500, but it also isn't a mystery why some people drive F150s. It's an affordable, reliable, and practical truck, seems like plenty of people would want it.

I understand the surplus thing.....I have more then a few vintage things....but the AR is nothing that is going to be on the surplus market....nothing select fire ever will be. So they may dump the mags for cheap....and people will grab them up...ok get that.....I have boxes of 92FS mags....why not the Beretta.

 

[tarosean]

I would disagree with that....to look at another group of fanbois....the 1911 group.

Boy you're on a roll... Glocks, AR's, 1911's.. Better touch on AK's too, cannot leave anyone out..

 

[bassjam]

If this is your hobby...fine, I get that....at one time I raced cars....I have the almost 6 figures in my race car....money down the drain and spent in a really stupid manner to some...ok I get that...but again the AR guys go past this.

If it is not an AR we move past it....if it does not take an AR magazine.....just read the comments in the ar thread....just makes me go wow...you really are a rabid fanboi.

Really its no different than your example of racing cars, and I don't see how you think AR guys go past that. There are rabid fanboys in the car world of GM small blocks, if it doesn't have a GM block they won't touch it, and then they spend thousands upon thousands upgrading that V8 to their tastes and needs, for in the end what doesn't amount to much more than bragging rights.

People like having hobbies. That's all there is to it.

 

[jeepnik]

To quote a deceased friend. "Because I can". It's getting harder and harder to own firearms in the US. So we might as well do it and enjoy changes things while we can.

 

[Jason_W]

I'm not into ARs myself but I really don't care if that's someone's thing.

There is a subset of AR, enthusiasts, however, who consider the platform to be the be all and end all of all rifles. It is the Omegas rifle, the rifle of rifles. All must bow before the AR. In the future, all things will be AR!

That's super irritating, but you can replace AR with anything else and the obnoxious fanboyism remains.

 

[cdb1]

I own one AR. I like it but seldom shoot it. I too don't understand the AR craze.
I also don't understand:
the fascination some have with scout rifles

buying a 10/22 then replacing everything but the action

milsurp mavens and milsurps are what I grew up with

the AK-47 fans

18.5" barrel bolt action centerfire rifles

why striker fired pistols are always superior to SA/DA

why so many people put a $50.00 scope on a $750.00 rifle.

and many other things.

It doesn't matter that I don't understand. What matters is we have so many choices and that's good. There are people who don't understand why I prefer 6.5x55 over 6.5 Creedmoor, 24" barrels most of the time in a bolt action, 20" barrel and A2 stocked AR's. Why I don't like really light weight rifles, shotguns and handguns. That doesn't matter either.

 

[boom boom]

If this is your hobby...fine, I get that....at one time I raced cars....I have the almost 6 figures in my race car....money down the drain and spent in a really stupid manner to some...ok I get that...but again the AR guys go past this.

Not sure how many AR 15 guys have spent almost 6 figures on AR's or their parts. That is some serious fanboism when you consider that money = time spent doing something. People get passionate about some items and others that don't share that interest go "meh". Go figure.

 

[Sam1911]

I just don't get it. Yes I own one....just one, and I have owned it for over 30 years. Colt HBAR. It shoots fine, works fine....

Well, a Colt H-BAR is ...well, if that's what I had I probably wouldn't be all that excited about it either. Neat but limited.

It is fun to play with what the AR-15 basic platform has become and can be. It certainly has become "America's Rifle" and can be a foundation for a lot of neat things -- quite well. As you alluded to, it's sort of the 350 Chevy of rifles. What's so cool about a 350 Chevy? Nothing really. Pretty boring tech, but they're out there powering everything from drag race cars to Jeeps and off-road trucks, to work boats puttering around the bays and rivers. Go fast? Sure! Go slow in granny-gear low-range? Sure! Pull along the convertible for a Sunday cruise up the highway? Absolutely! As the go-to swap engine into any conceivable vehicle larger than a lawn mower? ...and some lawn mowers, too, I'm sure? YES!

If you don't feel compelled by it, that's fine, but you certainly have the back ground to understand it.

but I just don't get the rabid....and many are rabid fans.

People say that sort of thing a lot. I guess I know there are a few fans who are irrationally exuberant about that gun. But I know hundreds who simply use them and do neat stuff with them, and have them in a variety of flavors and formats to fit their needs and wants.

There's as much addiction to ranting about "rabid fan bois!" as there is rabid fanboy-ism in our gun culture. It is just as unseemly to be an "above it all" and "too cool for school" elitist who looks down his nose at folks who "follow the herd" as it is to be overly enthusiastic about something.

The magazine thread brought this up....I don't get why a product would be discounted if it did not have an AR magazine.

That should be obvious, and I'm sure you understand it just as well as you need to. Some folks have a lot of mags for ARs, and don't feel like buying something that takes other mags. It's simple standardization. If you get two or three mags for most guns and that's all you want or need, this probably doesn't even occur to you. If you have 15-100 mags that you cycle through in competition and/or training, you might not feel like bothering to pick up some other gun and either have to deal with a lot of mag-reloading during those exercises, or have to spend $20-$50 a piece for a pile of mags for that new gun.

If your race car has a 350-based engine and you've got 20 sets of head gaskets, a pile of cams, extra valve springs, spare intake manifolds and such you've collected over the years in your shop, plus 20 years of experience in building and rebuilding and tuning that specific engine, and somebody says, "hey, I think we should put a 351 Ford in the car this year," you'd probably completely discount the idea and tell your pal thanks but no thanks. The 350 does everything you need -- and can be easily made to do whatever else you want. Why would you change that?

The same goes to Glock fans....I don't get it. We have them (glocks) at work and it is just a claw hammer....nothing special....no more reliable then any other pistol (of the same quality).

No gun is "anything special." They're just guns. So?

But the AR guys seem to go well past all that, they decide that a hot rod 22 is not enough, so they start changing things to make them bigger....not accurate enough different "upper" again...not good for that, change this....visit the barbie catalog and start to hang all manner of garbage on the side of a gun.

I don't think this is really a complaint. At least, it isn't one that makes any sense. You're literally complaining that people buy better barrels, triggers, etc, to make their guns more accurate? You're denigrating them for changing to an upper that easily takes scopes and optics? You're denigrating them for dropping on a barreled upper in a cartridge and caliber more suited to their hunting needs? Or a short/light combination that will work faster in matches? Etc,.etc.?

This isn't a legitimate beef. This is simple grousing for no reason at all. (Outside of some self-defeating superiority complex. Literally insinuating a level of elitism based on you being LESS knowledgeable and having LESS understanding than other people. Go figure.) I'm sure it doesn't even make sense to YOU if you really stop and think about what you're saying.

.I have the almost 6 figures in my race car....but again the AR guys go past this.

If you were the one READING such a sentence, instead of having written it yourself, you'd be laughing your butt off that anybody would make such a ridiculous claim. While I'm certain there are a few enthusiasts out there with nearly $100,000 tied up in AR-15s, there sure aren't very many. But there's LOTS of guys who've spent such bone-headed stupid amounts of money making a silly car go just a hair faster down a racetrack. (A pursuit about as practical and of equal eternal worth as knitting sweaters out of your belly button lint.)

I don't mind Religion....it is the fan club members that get too worked up.

And the only thing worse than the fan-boys are the anti-fan-boys -- am I right or am I right?!?

It's like the swarm of fleas attracted by the swarm of rats, attracted by the garbage, you know? Hard to decide which is worse!

 

[herrwalther]

Flip through the Glock store catalogue and you will see a level of fan boy that "AR people" dream of.

I have shot tons of Glocks and tons of ARs. Not a fan boy of either since I have no Glocks and (one) work in progress AR.

 

[ColoradoMinuteMan]

I can completely understand not being a fan of something popular. Heck, I wouldn't touch much of today's popular music, movies, and TV with. What I really have never understood is the need to call out those who have a preference for something

I understand the surplus thing.....I have more then a few vintage things....but the AR is nothing that is going to be on the surplus market....nothing select fire ever will be. So they may dump the mags for cheap....and people will grab them up...ok get that.....I have boxes of 92FS mags....why not the Beretta.

Yeah, I'm not sure I follow you. Obviously M16 receivers won't be on the surplus market, but I definitely don't think I made any allusion to the fact it would.

 

[mokin]

First of all, referring to all modern semi auto sporting rifles as "ARs" bugs me. To me it's like calling all trucks "Chevys". Unless it's an Armalite, please don't call it an "AR".

there may be many reliable semi auto plastic pistols on the market today, but glocks were arguably the first and retain a significant market share. it doesn't take a genius to figure out why their mags are popular and a de facto standard.

ARs are somewhat different in that there are relatively few carbines on the market that are as capable. go to a 3gun match and you will see the top competitors are always using ARs. the top military units always use them. the jury is in. there's nothing else in its class. further, a bazillion magazines have been manufactured for the AR, and they are regularly 1/3rd the price of mags for other rifles.

some people get excited about that. whatever.

what i do find interesting about this topic is that the Achilles heel of the AR was always the magazine. that's where probably half of the malfunctions come from and the mags are generally considered disposable. second guessing the magazine design after 50 years could go either way i guess. i wonder how things might be different today if the AR had been designed with a mag more like the m14 mag,

Good points here. Especially in the last paragraph.

I am not sure of the thread you're referencing.
However, I have boxes and boxes of AR mags sitting around here. It would make financial sense to add another gun that could use them instead of buying tons of some other magazine. After all Maggazines are the weakest link in semi-auto guns. Its really got nothing to do with the +/- of another platform.
Same reason my PCC takes Glock mags. Already had a metric ton of glock mags.. No need to go out and buy something special.

That's why Galils have an adapter to accept AR-15 type magazines.

 

[hdwhit]

jeepnik wrote:
It's getting harder and harder to own firearms in the US.

Huh?

Since I turned 18, all I've ever had to do is walk into the store, show the clerk my driver's license, fill out the ATF form, pay my money and walk out with a gun. It was that way in the mid-1970's, it was that way a few months ago. Sure, they now do a background check, but it takes the clerk longer to print out a copy of the approval than it does to run the check.

Twenty some-odd years ago I couldn't buy an "assault rifle", now I can.

About that same time, I couldn't buy a magazine that held more than 10 rounds, now I can.

So, I don't understand what's "harder and harder".

 

[boom boom]

Huh?

Since I turned 18, all I've ever had to do is walk into the store, show the clerk my driver's license, fill out the ATF form, pay my money and walk out with a gun. It was that way in the mid-1970's, it was that way a few months ago. Sure, they now do a background check, but it takes the clerk longer to print out a copy of the approval than it does to run the check.

Twenty some-odd years ago I couldn't buy an "assault rifle", now I can.

About that same time, I couldn't buy a magazine that held more than 10 rounds, now I can.

So, I don't understand what's "harder and harder".

Maybe he lives in California or New York.

 

[hdwhit]

fpgt72 wrote:
I just don't get it.

I don't understand a lot of things.

• I don't understand how you could have dropped the price of a house on a race car.
  
• I don't understand why my oldest son won't finish getting the certification that would qualify him for a better job.
• I don't understand how the 5.7mm Johnson cartridge wasn't more popular.
• I don't understand people spending $600 on a gun and then immediately stripping off half the parts to replace them with $600 worth of new parts when they could have gotten the same gun configured the same way for $1100.

But then, I don't really need to understand these things. What I need to do is respect that the people doing them are doing them because it the way they choose to pursue happiness through the liberty we have and demand they show me the same respect for the things I do that are beyond their understanding.