The best 12ga 00 buck for burglars & blackguards...

[Field Tester]

The Military stuff from Wal-Mart patterns very well in my shotguns.

 

[lemaymiami]

For real world performance your shot needs to be able to penetrate deeply into your target (as a comparison check out the old GI .45 round in classic military hard ball configuration -so slow moving that if you look closely you can actually see it going down range -but on impact will go right through a human torso, center of mass, at home defense ranges...). That's exactly what 00buck will do from almost any basic 2 3/4 round at ranges under 15 meters... but, although penetrating deeply it will have expended almost all of its energy in the target....

Yes, pattern each brand in your shotgun -don't rely on other's reports since each shotgun will have it's best performance with one brand and it's poorest with another...

For what it's worth, on the street, my department issued either Winchester or Remington nine pellet 00buck rounds only -and that's what we carried day in and day out. Used properly at close range (under 15 meters -well within home defense ranges) it's an absolute fight ender...

Yes, over penetration is a factor you must always consider -but you shouldn't be firing unless you've got a solid target in front of you and are absolutely aware of the background you're shooting towards. Are there times when a "no shoot" decision is appropriate even in a home defense situation - absolutely. If you ever do come to the point where shooting is necessary that basic 2 3/4 00buck round will do its job for you. Dealing with what comes afterward is another topic entirely...

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

Remington #1 Buckshot, 2 1/2 inch 16 pellet.

 

[200Apples]

oneounceload

Why?

Because you're not John Farnam. <--- about John Farnam

Hee!

 

[RMc]

Because you're not John Farnam. <--- about John Farnam

Hee!

Argumentum ad hominem.

 

[JWH321]

I'm still happy with my choice. I did not make it on the basis of drywall penetration. I based it on my own tests of patterns at 60 feet or less.

I believe that you will find that at those distances, there will be sufficient impact to end the threat, especially given that multiple rounds may be used.

My tests were on paper targets backed by 1/2 inch plywood. I had penetration of the plywood. That's good enough for me. As I said, your needs may be greater than mine.

 

[Highcaliber]

Federal LE buck with the FliteControl wad is the gold standard for SD/HD buck.

I agree. This is my favorite 12 ga HD ammo. Currently and confidently chambered in my Benelli M4 as we speak.

 

[RainDodger]

I use the same thing I used when qualifying with a shotgun as a federal agent. 00 Buck. I live in an actual house, on 5 acres and I don't care about penetration as the only thing on the other side of my walls would be a bad guy, so penetration simply means it's gonna go through the bad guy and leave a big old hole. No kids around. I don't care about the pattern of the 00 Buck - the range won't be enough to even worry about it.

If I'm shooting at a distance that I need to worry about the shot pattern.... I would not pick up a shotgun; I would use something more suited. Besides, there should be pretty much no need to shoot at anyone at a distance... that likely would not be called "self defense"...

For practice... I would not use expensive 00 Buck. The only practicing I do with the shotgun is on the trap range, with nice 7.5 shot, trap loads.

 

[Frostbite]

Because you mention quantity, I would recommend you to buy different ammo for different uses. For gun handling practice, the cheapest birdshot you can find. Only the number counts, so the cheaper the better, more for your dollar. For buckshot practice, the greatest number of different buckshot you can reasonably afford. It will allow you to get used to the recoil and shooting stance which you will determine appropriate and most comfortable while allowing you to choose which one you prefer out of your shotgun since you would pattern those when you shoot them. Then, when the time comes to stack some, you will know which one you want to pile up. I just don't see why you would want to accumulate a large number of those except for practice. I figure if a threat has not been ended with a full magazine of 00 buckshot, there is not much more buckshot can do to help you.

Another way to look at this is the one I chose. Birdshot to practice clay busting in order to become more familiar with the shotgun and learn to shoot at moving targets. I buy the cheapest available so I can buy more and shoot more. I also bought a large (for me!) quantity of the cheapest 00 buckshot I could find because I figured any of those would do the job and I would rather learn the capacity of the cheapest and adapt to it then invest in the search of the best one and then build on that. I concede it is a cheap shortcut, but hey, one has to do within its means. That is why mi highest shot count is .22LR every year!

I will admit that I will most likely try the FliteControl ammo because it gets so many good comments, and if I like it a lot more than the affordable stuff, I might just pile up twelve rounds of it, since this is twice the fully loaded capacity of my shotgun.

 

[Jenrick]

Just in case anyone here missed it, we did some patterning of several common 00 loads on the market. Out of one of our rack 870's they all patterned just fine out to 10-15 yards. You can read the rest here.

As far as using birdshot, we just ran a shot gun class today. We use Winchester Super-X #7.5 birdshot extensively to train manipulations. The stuff zips right through the backers, and also straight through the wooden target stands. They however only dent and then bounce off the metal binder clips we use to hold the targets on the stands.

-Jenrick

 

[herrwalther]

Here are a couple birdshot video tests that I refresh with now and then. Showing the benefits and weaknesses of birdshot for home defense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIfilArIHlY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gq3RVvL9ZjU

Birdshot is never the best option for home defense. But it should not be eliminated as an option altogether.

 

[Merle1]

The unbuffered does offer an advantage at close range, but the buffered will hold a better pattern at longer range. You should try as many different loads as you can find, as sometimes one brand will pattern exceptionally better than the others.

 

[Merle1]

Unless you live alone in a detached home I wouldn't recommend it. Buck and even larger bird shot will penetrate dry wall.

1 1/4 ounces of 7 1/2 shot is still super-deadly at home-defense ranges.

I'm curious, just how much experience do you have with #7-1/2 birdshot?

 

[Merle1]

Mine has 7 1/2 in it. The largest distance in my house is 60 feet. From my tests, at 60 feet there will be a very tight group of little projectiles moving at 1100 fps which, I'm confident, will dissuade even the most determined.

I am also convinced that at that range, I will have much better control of the gun than I would with 00.

YMMV.

Once again, on what do you base your confidence?

 

[Merle1]

HD shotgun loaded with Heavy 8 birdshot. Will do the job at close distances and is easy to get, even during ammo shortages. I still keep a few slugs and 00 buck shells in a sidesaddle carrier.

Have you ever actually tested your load for penetration, or are you going on faith only?

 

[BSA1]

The beauty of pump guns is you can mix your loads. With a extended magazine tube you can pack a lot pellets. My 870 starts out with 00, then #4's and finishes with #6's.

My reason is simple. The more rounds I have to fire the deeper the do-do I am in. In which case the deeper the do-do the more pellets I want flying down range and hitting the do-do.

 

[herrwalther]

Have you ever actually tested your load for penetration, or are you going on faith only?

Yes. I just don't have a well shot video on youtube of the penetration. 4-6 inches of penetration with Winchester heavy 8 is where most of the pellets ended up.

 

[Fred Fuller]

My 870 starts out with 00, then #4's and finishes with #6's.

I've never heard a reputable shotgun trainer endorse 'candy cane' loading as described above. With a defensive shotgun, the shooter needs to know what will be coming out of the muzzle with every press of the trigger. And almost no shooter can keep his or her feces coagulated sufficiently in a real world defensive situation to know how many rounds they have fired.

Louis Awerbuck used to toss the keys to his truck on the ground in front of the class before a couple of his more demanding drills, and say that anyone who could tell him how many rounds they had left at the end of the drill could pick up the keys and take the truck. No one ever did...

Here's Louis at work on what I used to call his fustercluck drill - a single student drill on the flat range ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szaJ1QhafjI

Another student, same drill - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MujiSSm_dE

I don't have the words to express how much I miss him.

 

[Merle1]

Yes. I just don't have a well shot video on youtube of the penetration. 4-6 inches of penetration with Winchester heavy 8 is where most of the pellets ended up.

Assuming you are talking about typical ballistic gel, that falls short of the FBI standard of 12 inches.

 

[Steve C]

What do you more-experienced folk use?

I want to lay in a good supply.

Going through a Mossburg 590 milsgun

IMO for the distances one would be shooting in a HD situation with a shotgun (i.e. under 60 ft) any size buckshot or 1-1/4oz lead bird shot #2's or BB will be adequate for defense work against un armored assailants. You can add any "heavy shot" loads for predators to the list though they're expense compared to lead shot.

I currently keep my Mossberg 500 loaded so the first 2 into the chamber is 21 pellet Rio 4 buck followed by 5 S&B 12 pellet 0-0 buck.

I'm not that picky about ammo brand. All it needs to do is work in the action, go bang and send the shot out the muzzle. I've patterned the cheap Rio and S&B that throw a 6-10"pattern at 10-12 yds. The 12pellet 0-0 S&B is tighter.

As to what kind of supply you need will depend on if you shoot games or game with your 590. A couple 25 round boxes of buck and some bird shot for practice and your set for years for self defense.

 

[herrwalther]

Assuming you are talking about typical ballistic gel, that falls short of the FBI standard of 12 inches.

Ballistic gel isn't cheap and I'm on a budget. Penetration test was done on a deer shoulder. All my SD ammo for pistols meets or exceeds FBI standard. Shotgun is the backup HD weapon to a pistol. But if you feel 4-6 inches in actual flesh, not gelatin, isn't enough. Feel free to volunteer to get shot with some #8 birdshot. Let us know how it goes.

 

[rbernie]

But if you feel 4-6 inches in actual flesh, not gelatin, isn't enough. Feel free to volunteer to get shot with some #8 birdshot. Let us know how it goes.

Centuries of experience tells most folk that care about such things that 4"-6" of projectile penetration is inadequate to provide reasonable assurance of stopping a fight. The FBI, in fact, developed test protocols to validate such things. Their conclusions and yours are dramatically different. Is their experience and thinking less thoughtful and insightful than yours?

Oh, and I wouldn't volunteer to get punched in the gut but that's hardly an endorsement for folk to eschew tools and go back to self-defense via fisticuffs.

 

[Pyzon]

anything that won't reliably penetrate drywall won't do so well on people, either

When the military and police forces start loading birdshot, so will I.

Have you ever taken a sure kill shot from short range at game and have it keep running or flying as you stare in disbelief that it did not disintegrate with that shot ? Ever have to give a rabbit or duck a whack on the skull to put them out of misery ?

Up the ante to a 200# human, likely scared ****less and hopped up, intent on doing whatever it takes inside your home. IF over penetration is a problem, better leave the guns in the safe.

 

[Merle1]

Ballistic gel isn't cheap and I'm on a budget. Penetration test was done on a deer shoulder. All my SD ammo for pistols meets or exceeds FBI standard. Shotgun is the backup HD weapon to a pistol. But if you feel 4-6 inches in actual flesh, not gelatin, isn't enough. Feel free to volunteer to get shot with some #8 birdshot. Let us know how it goes.

Flesh is a lot different than bone. That's why the FBI mandates a minimum of 12", to allow for penetrating bone and still having enough to get to the vital organs. Consider the torso of a bad guy - how many places can you expect birdshot to NOT hit bone? How well does your birdshot penetrate thru bone? Are you going to have only a flesh wound? Granted, that is extremely painful, but probably not fatal. It is ultimately your decision, but I urge you to think it over one more time.

 

[Jorg Nysgerrig]

But if you feel 4-6 inches in actual flesh, not gelatin, isn't enough. Feel free to volunteer to get shot with some #8 birdshot.

It's mind boggling how often people spout this nonsense. Certainly no one would consider a bucket of feces and vomit the best choice for defense, but I can't imagine anyone volunteering to prove it.