mgkdrgn
Member
At HD ranges, and 12g shell that actually goes off will likely get the job done.
Personally, I got a good deal on #1 buck a few years back so that is what is in my 870.
The best 12ga 00 buck for burglars & blackguards...
- Thread starter Conelrad
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Personally, I got a good deal on #1 buck a few years back so that is what is in my 870.
a person, particularly a man, who behaves in a dishonorable or contemptible way.
In less time than it took to ask the question, google would have given you an instant answer.
P5 Guy
Member
I've got #4buck ready to go for those blackguard guys.
USAF_Vet
Member
It's kinda funny how many people say that bird shot is a viable SD HD load, but then claim in the same breath that they keep their SD HD shotgun loaded with something else.
Army 9 pellet loads are good, Very powerful and don;t fail to penetrate the bad guys.
In a HD situation you'll probably just grab the gun and fire, so have whatever Buckshot load you consider adequate. Just keep gun and ammo handy because you'll likely be half asleep, very scared and will not want to try and remember where you put the shells while so groggy!
All you can do is try your best to wake up enough to have your senses about you, try and not shoot towards where loved ones are hiding/sleeping and do your best to stop the aggressive threat to you all. For reasons I can't state, I have several guns stratigacilly placed around the house. When the Grandkids come over, all go in the safe and I am vulernable. It's the Law and an unfortunate situation. Ya really HAVE to keep all guns away from interested little fingers though!
A Dog is a very worthwhile
investment for HD It's noise and loyalty may give you time to arm yourself.
I have an Australian Shepard, great family pet, big enough to knock someone down and loyal as they come! They fight off Wolves afterall...
HTH,
ZVP
In a HD situation you'll probably just grab the gun and fire, so have whatever Buckshot load you consider adequate. Just keep gun and ammo handy because you'll likely be half asleep, very scared and will not want to try and remember where you put the shells while so groggy!
All you can do is try your best to wake up enough to have your senses about you, try and not shoot towards where loved ones are hiding/sleeping and do your best to stop the aggressive threat to you all. For reasons I can't state, I have several guns stratigacilly placed around the house. When the Grandkids come over, all go in the safe and I am vulernable. It's the Law and an unfortunate situation. Ya really HAVE to keep all guns away from interested little fingers though!
A Dog is a very worthwhile
investment for HD It's noise and loyalty may give you time to arm yourself.
I have an Australian Shepard, great family pet, big enough to knock someone down and loyal as they come! They fight off Wolves afterall...
HTH,
ZVP
lemaymiami
Member
I've already posted once on this thread so this will be brief... I see that some of the folks who've posted here aren't very clear about what self defense actually means. To me, i's an action that's only taken when you have no other choice and you're going to have to put down your opponent(s). If you fail to win then you or your loved ones will face the consequences. Are there a few individuals that you might actually have to outrun AFTER you shoot them? I've actually met one or two...
For that once in a lifetime event use the best round possible, period. For me, that's still 00buck -the basic 12ga 2 3/4 round. A solid center of mass hit with that round will end just about any violent encounter right then. I've seen the elephant and live with the consequences.
For that once in a lifetime event use the best round possible, period. For me, that's still 00buck -the basic 12ga 2 3/4 round. A solid center of mass hit with that round will end just about any violent encounter right then. I've seen the elephant and live with the consequences.
OP
OP
Conelrad
Member
Thanks to all for the insights and empirical evidence.
I have a much better agreement with my initial thoughts.
Go big or go home.
Dennis
I have a much better agreement with my initial thoughts.
Go big or go home.
Dennis
Mainsail
Member
Yikes, who said that?
200Apples
Mojave Lever Crew
Mr. LeMay, thank you for being here on THR, and thanks for posting your experiences. I've read much of what you've had to say and I, for one, value highly your posts. I think at times that though our posts are read they are not always acknowledged, therefore I wanted to express, for what it's worth, our collective appreciation for your past work and for all good law enforcement officers; the good guys just trying to do their job.
To everyone else (since the Holidays are upon us), here's wishing you a safe Holiday season.
blarby
Member
Other than making it yourself ?
If you wanted to buy it cheap and lay it deep, good ole' remington can be bought pretty cheap, and has the same number of pellets as any other 9-15 count shell.
If bleeding edge performance in roundballs is your thing, the hornady TAP are pretty nice.
If bleeding your wallet is your major concern, you know, because the best ! HEVISHOT makes a 00 load that'll totally make your eyes pop, and your enemies drop !
If you wanted to buy it cheap and lay it deep, good ole' remington can be bought pretty cheap, and has the same number of pellets as any other 9-15 count shell.
If bleeding edge performance in roundballs is your thing, the hornady TAP are pretty nice.
If bleeding your wallet is your major concern, you know, because the best ! HEVISHOT makes a 00 load that'll totally make your eyes pop, and your enemies drop !
1911 guy
Member
I'm going to ask some leading questions.
What would make you fire a shotgun at someone?
What is the desired result of firing the shotgun?
What are the stakes if it doesn't go as well as possible?
Personally, I'm only shooting if me and mine are in danger of death or severe bodily harm. I'm going to shoot to make the other guy stop what he's doing, and stop right now. The stakes are the well being my me and my family. Thus, I want the most effective load for the job. Since towed artillery is too cumbersome, I'll go with 00 buck.
What would make you fire a shotgun at someone?
What is the desired result of firing the shotgun?
What are the stakes if it doesn't go as well as possible?
Personally, I'm only shooting if me and mine are in danger of death or severe bodily harm. I'm going to shoot to make the other guy stop what he's doing, and stop right now. The stakes are the well being my me and my family. Thus, I want the most effective load for the job. Since towed artillery is too cumbersome, I'll go with 00 buck.
lemaymiami
Member
200Apples... thanks for the kind words. You've got a PM.
Zach S
Member
I used to buy Federal LE132 in bulk online. Its a low recoil 9 pellet 00B that patterns very tight out of my 590. 8pellet, LE133 also pattered well. IIRC, a ~12" spread was the norm, with a few freak 8" spreads.
Now, I use commercial Federal H132. Also low recoil 9 pellet 00B. It doesn't pattern as tight, and has a little less velocity, but is readily available locally.
Now, I use commercial Federal H132. Also low recoil 9 pellet 00B. It doesn't pattern as tight, and has a little less velocity, but is readily available locally.
Agreed.
mgkdrgn
Member
Probably referring to me.
But really, if you get a solid center of mass hit out of a 12 gauge shotgun, with 1+oz of #8 shot, at 15 feet, do you -really- think the person on the receiving end is going to continue to be much of a threat?
Blade First
Member
"I'd default to #4 buck. Of course, I live on a few acres."
Good advice...capable of working well on most everything from house to field to fencerow. One of the heaviest packages you can send down the tube.
Good advice...capable of working well on most everything from house to field to fencerow. One of the heaviest packages you can send down the tube.
Jenrick
Member
Yes I do. I wish I'd taken video, but we were running a course for some Army folks and for one of the drills had them engaging at 5 yards. As I mentioned in another post we use #7.5 for our manipulation drills, and we shoot at targets that have been glued over multiple times. I watched a solider put three shells worth of #7.5 into the same area before he finally blew all the way through the target. The first shell basically looked like someone had taken a giant felting needle to the target (area about the size of my fist) and poked numerous little holes into it. Each of those little holes is going to have at best about 1" of penetration into an adversary. The second shell started to break out the center point of impact into an actual cavity into the target, and the third shell finally blew a hole through and through about the size of my fist.
Again if #7.5 at 10 yards is bouncing off of the backers, and is only denting metal binder clips, what is it going to do to a human? Even at 5 yards (on a target that was in general tougher then the majority we shot that day) it takes multiple rounds to go through a paper and cardboard, what is it going to do a human? Even the cheapest wort patterning load we could find, shot minute of torso or better out to 10 yards, and will definitely penetrate to the distance needed to achieve appropriate ballistic effects.
-Jenrick
Mainsail
Member
I think the point some of us are making is that yes, we're aware that birdshot isn't going to blow someone to pieces, and is definitely not the best choice for defensive purposes. That said, does anyone doubt that a burglar taking a full frontal blast of birdshot is going to discontinue his burgle? So what's your goal in a home invasion, to blow a hole in the burglar you can see through, or to stop the threat? In almost every case the threat will be stopped with birdshot at close range. All the same, we don't prepare for almost every case so we load buck of some sort. I load buck in my SxS and my auto but I won't say a disparaging word towards anyone who loads birdshot.
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Federal LE132-1B gets my vote. For pumps. For semi autos I'd stick with a full power so make it LE127-00. Hornady has the same wad technology and I wouldn't hesitate to use theirs either.
Leave birdshot for the animals that weigh a lb or a handful of lbs. Sometimes attackers are hard enough to stop as it is, even with the right tool. And birdshot is not the right tool.
When I lived in an apartment and a shotgun was my go-to HD long gun I kept it loaded with 1 3/4" magnum #4 buck. 34 pellets, lower velocity than the regular (non-mag) version that had 27 pellets (also Federal). I'd probably choose the same thing in that situation today.
Leave birdshot for the animals that weigh a lb or a handful of lbs. Sometimes attackers are hard enough to stop as it is, even with the right tool. And birdshot is not the right tool.
When I lived in an apartment and a shotgun was my go-to HD long gun I kept it loaded with 1 3/4" magnum #4 buck. 34 pellets, lower velocity than the regular (non-mag) version that had 27 pellets (also Federal). I'd probably choose the same thing in that situation today.
USAF_Vet
Member
I'll add to the No answers to this question. Too many home invasions are perpetrated while armed, and while people are home. I'm not willing to shoot to wound, knowing there is a good possibility the birds shot WILL NOT end the threat, but perhaps escalate it. If the perp is armed, a blast of less lethal bird shot may only serve to entice him to start shooting his own weapon, which is probably loaded with something more lethal than what he was just hit with.
My goal is to end the threat, which means using the load and placement most effective. Not sort of effective, not kind of effective, not what's effective on TV, but what has been proven to be effective. This is why I generally use the loads (if not the exact brand) of ammo used by various police forces in my area. They use 00 buck, so I use 00 buck. So to further answer your question, while it isn't my goal to shoot a hole through the burglar I can see through, if that is what happens and what it takes to end the threat, then so be it.
*emphasis mine.
I'm not willing to risk my life and the lives of those I care about on almost stopping a threat. I want the deck stacked so heavily in my favor to get it as close to a 100% rate of success as possible.
There are a bunch of guys walking around with bird shot in their bodies. Not many with .33 or .36 caliber shot walking around.
Cops always refer to "crackheads" who just keep coming. Shoot to kill, or just run away.
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JWH321
Member
Ok, I'm convinced. After the events of the past few days I'm feeling more like I would prefer ending any confrontation quickly and permanently.
I bought my first box of 00 buck (actually I bought five). I'm still convinced that I shouldn't need it. But I'm also convinced that we are living in a very different world. Having some idiot say "watch this" then end two lives just turns my stomach.
I bought my first box of 00 buck (actually I bought five). I'm still convinced that I shouldn't need it. But I'm also convinced that we are living in a very different world. Having some idiot say "watch this" then end two lives just turns my stomach.
JWH321
Member
BTW, I just put a box of rounds down the tube. My shoulder still much prefers 7 1/2 stuff.
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