The Commie Gun Theory

[Stauble]

im going to propose a theory (im not sayin that i agree with it either)that probably wont be too popular but ill do it anyways

for the price and quality you get, old commie guns are better then american guns
example: Ar-15 great gun for 900$ Ak-47 better gun 350$
M-1 Garand great gun for 400$ SKS better gun (cheaper ammo) for 150$

i wanna talk about all combloc guns from makarovs to ROMAK-3s
remember this is just a theory not a fact so agree with it or disagree with it just put why

 

[Rupestris]

example: Ar-15 great gun for 900$ Ak-47 better gun 350$

Ever tried to shoot a prairie dog at 300+ yards with an AK?

sorry, I just had to throw that out there. One being better than the other depends on ones intended use.
Kinda hard to compete at Camp Perry with an SKS, ya know?

 

[Gewehr98]

Let's explore that one a little deeper, shall we?

Kinda hard to compete at Camp Perry with an SKS, ya know?

Kinda hard to compete at Camp Perry with a rack-grade M16A2, issued straight from the armory at your home base/fort/camp, ya know? The M16/AR-15's winning matches at Camp Perry have more than just a little TLC invested in them.

(BTW, I've shot prairie dogs, gophers, and rabbits at 300 yards with an SLR-95 and handloads, thank you)

 

[armoredman]

True, but I have an SKS I could afford, while the AR I can't afford still sits on the gun shop shelf. I have the Mosin I could afford, while the M1 I can't afford still sits at CMP. Gotta put it in perspective...

 

[Rupestris]

(BTW, I've shot prairie dogs, gophers, and rabbits at 300 yards with an SLR-95 and handloads, thank you)

NICE SHOOTIN'!

I meant no disrespect. Just trying to clear up the "better-than" thing.
To be honest, I can't afford any of the mentioned rifles. Thats why I use Win 94's.

 

[chunk]

com-bloc mil-surp

i love this stuff.cheap ,fun i try to buy a new gun every week

 

[Stauble]

Rupestris,
an unissued SKS is cheaper then a Win 94, uses roughly the same size bullet, but the 7.62 is cheaper then the 30-30

 

[SnakeEater]

M-1 Garand great gun for 400$ SKS better gun (cheaper ammo) for 150$

I disagree with that statement. The Garand is a more capable rifle at long ranges and the 30-06 is vastly superior to the 7.62 commie.

 

[Eightball]

I tend to agree with Stauble. For those of us on a very small budget at any given time, nothing beats commie (or surplus) guns. My mauser cost me $100 flat, and does just as well as the Remington's I've seen out there (the mauser can outshoot me quite easy ). My SKS has served me well--another $100. I'll probably buy several more cheap surplus rifles before I can sit down and afford 1 high-quality american rifle, if only due to a matter of my budget. As for the whole "try being at Camp Perry with a [fill in the blank]"....odds are, I'll never be at camp perry, so that's not a big concern . YMMV

 

[Kalashnikov]

I love surplus rifles and ESPECIALLY Russian ones. Currently I'm saving up for a Russian 91/30 sniper at the local milsurp store. To me, Russian guns in particular and surplus guns in general, represent everything I need. Strong, reliable firearms with effective and cheapp ammunition, and accurate (more or less) for everything I intend to shoot. That sums up how i feel about milsurp.

 

[KaceCoyote]

I agree aswell.

Finest Kalashnikov optics in the land are just over 200 bucks, you can put rails, AK or AR stocks on'em. Fires a bigger round, with more than acceptable accuracy and will do it every single time I pull the trigger. Mine's got a real sweet two stage trigger, has had 1 malf the entire time I've owned it and put thousands of rounds down the pipe. The source of that malf, I dropped the bolt without the magazine seated firmly in the rifle.

Now with V-max ammunition being made for the 7.62x39mm we may just see how accurate the AK can really be.

 

[Rupestris]

Stauble,
The two 94's I have were both used and come in right around the price of an SKS ($175) and came with a couple goodies. I couldn't pass 'em up.
I understand the attraction to mil-surp com-block, I still have my eyes open for a Mosin Nagant M39 and/or M44.

Speaking of russian goodies, the store near me still has a couple Saigas. Has anyone heard if they will be comming back to the US?

 

[KaceCoyote]

They're coming back, the new importer is waiting on paperwork.

 

[dolanp]

One is made to tight specifications for accuracy, the other is built with loose tolerances for durability and reliability.

The Commie ones are cheaper, a plus to them. I prefer them myself as I do believe it's more 'bang for the buck' but they are limited in their application. On the flip side dragging a tight spec US rifle through the dirt and mud might just leave you with a jam-o-matic which won't do you much good no matter how accurate it is.

 

[Onslaught]

If you buy an SKS because you WANT an SKS, then that's all well and good, BUT if I buy an AK because I can't AFFORD an AR, then I'll have a $350 rifle that I WISH was the $900 rifle...

Although I can BUILD an AR for $650-ish

I keep thinking I should pick up an AK, but I just can't seem to figure out what they can do that my ARs can't... I like the 7.62x39 round, but I think I want to build an AR47 instead

 

[jefnvk]

I think with a little saving, you could afford an M1.

My AR cost $600. I was playing arouind with the AK idea, but around here, about the only ones for $350 are the single stack Romanians. Jump up into the next pricing range, you get a bit better guns, but the quality still ain't up to what an AR is. They still have that mass-produced, cheap feel.

As for them being more reliable, that just ain't an issue to me. I'm not wading through an icy arctic rives in sub zero temperatures. Not going to a place where dust storms are more common than rain. The gun won't sit in the jungle for days with no care.

They are great guns for the price, but I just like to kick it up a notch.

But an SKS is probably the best buy on the market right now.

 

[thereisnospoon]

First, let me say,ifit goes bang, I usually like it, except like everyone I have my favorites.

I got on a kick back in the late 1998 where I decided to purchase a surplus gun from every country I could from the late 1800s (say 1890's) to the present. It was fun and very interesting and I acquired some really interesting stuff for not a whole lot of money. Some of my favorites

Anything Swedish...they seemed to perform, or out-perform, almost everything. Especially the Ljungman AG42B, which I later sold and now regret very much.

Also, I acquired a Russia SVT40 and loved it. Mine had the scope rails so I got a mount from B-square and a 6 power "russian" scope and had a blast. I could hit IDPA targets out to 800 yards. Really cool. My Moisin-Nagant rifle was a hoot and cheap to shoot, yet very accurate and powerful (of course with like a 29" barrel, you'd expect some accuracy, right?)

One of my personal favs was the 1917 Eddystone, again something I later sold and regret. 2" groups at 100 yards with irons is o.k. by me.

I have never personaly owned an SKS, but did own a 5.45X39 Romanian rifle for a short while...it was very accurate and again I wish I could have kept it.

(Reason for selling most of these rifles was cashflow crunches...usually brought about by my unending lust for more and more toys )

So I guess what I'm saying is, some of the Russian stuff is excellent and most of the surplus stuff was rugged and did the job it was intended. Good enough for gubmit work, as they say.

Never the less, If I could afford more modern stuff I would go with it, for all the reason we could each post...parts, mags, ammo, etc. That does not mean, however that I would feel outgunned if my budget only allowed for a 7.62X54R turnbolt and an SKS, it just means I'd have to use different tactics and different training for reloads, etc.

My $0.03

 

[ocabj]

I have the Mosin I could afford, while the M1 I can't afford still sits at CMP. Gotta put it in perspective...

Save your money and get the M1. I jumped on the CMP bandwagon only recently, and it's kind of late (but better late than never). The supply of CMP Garands is dwindling and the longer you wait, the more expensive your eventual Garand purchase is going to be.

 

[Cosmoline]

There's no doubt you can get a much, much better deal on former East block firearms than US surplus. A Mosin-Nagant may look weird, but it's at least the equal of the Springfield '03 (I would say it's superior) and costs far less. And of course the SAR-1 and other AK based semis are legendary for their toughness. I have found these legends to be completely correct.

The Soviets were crazy, it's true. But not that crazy. They kept the Imperial arsenals intact after the revolution and made sure the skilled arms workers were happy. Russian steel is surprisingly good. So good, in fact, that my attempts on the Mosin-Nagant forums to find even one example of a failed Mosin receiver have met with silence. The bolt heads sometimes crack, but the receivers are amazingly tough. The Finns still use antique Mosin receivers for modern sniper rifles--the equivalent of the US military using Krag receivers! There's an old Russian proverb American engineers could do well to learn--the best is the enemy of good enough. Make the tolerances too tight, and put too many gizmos in the works and all you'll end up making is a jam-o-matic.

 

[30Cal]

For me, shooting the commie guns is like eating a cheap steak. Why bother?

Ty

 

[jefnvk]

I got on a kick back in the late 1998 where I decided to purchase a surplus gun from every country I could from the late 1800s (say 1890's) to the present. It was fun and very interesting and I acquired some really interesting stuff for not a whole lot of money.

I seem to have whatever disease affected you

For me, shooting the commie guns is like eating a cheap steak. Why bother?

When you can buy 10 OK steaks for the price of 1 great steak, you can eat steak for a lot longer.

 

[SnakeEater]

When you can buy 10 OK steaks for the price of 1 great steak, you can eat steak for a lot longer.

But once you finally take the plunge and buy that nice Filet Mignon, you'll never look at anything else.

 

[MechAg94]

Since a lot of these decisions are driven by price, I would be curious to know what the raw contruction cost is of an AR vs an AK or similar. How many man-hours and what material cost? I am just thinking that if Armalite decided to make AK or SKS clones from scratch, they still couldn't get the cost as low as some people are talking about.

 

[Cosmoline]

If the boys at Armalite tried to make an AK, they would no doubt end up with a neat looking rifle that costs $2,000 and won't function in a heavy rain.

 

[MechAg94]

You are probably right, but am sure if the market was there, some company could make them cheap. I am just not sure they could make them as cheap as the imports are today. They are a good deal these days. I only have a 54R commie gun. I am thinking of getting another.