The concept of 380 vs more powerful rounds

[beatledog7]

3twelves,

If we're talking about an active shooter then it's a gunfight, and that sort of thing is exceedingly rare. Why would this guy be shooting at me unprovoked?

You're presenting a lot of data that we already know, so I'm at a loss to understand your purpose. I would never argue that a .380 has as much ballistic power as a 9mm. I would will argue that in the right hands with properly loaded FMJs it is an adequate SD round.

I'm never surprised that whenever these caliber wars blaze up, nobody states that he's willing to take a bullet or three or ten fired from a cartridge he poo-poos as totally inadequate to prove his point.

 

[Skribs]

I'm never surprised that whenever these caliber wars blaze up, nobody states that he's willing to take a bullet or three or ten fired from a cartridge he poo-poos as totally inadequate to prove his point.

Just because I won't stand in front of any caliber, doesn't mean I would want to stand behind it in a SD situation, either. The big reason I think the .38/.380 are sort of the "threshold" is because when you compare a 9mm to a .45, you're generally comparing a 0.65" hole to a 0.77" hole (or something similar). With .380 vs. 9, you're comparing a 0.35" hole to 0.65" hole. That's a much bigger gap.

I'm not denying that the .380 can stop an attacker, or that many people will move out of the way regardless of whether I have a .380 or a 9. However, I would much rather have a 9 at my fingertips to stop the threat.

 

[Redlg155]

My 95 percent carry gun is a Sig P238 in .380.

I know I can conceal the weapon no matter what I wear. I am aware of my surroundings at all times and if need be, I would rather safely disengage from a conflict than actively engage in one. If...and only if I have to, I have 7 rounds at my disposal to stop the threat, or at the very least, give me time to retreat to a safer position. And yes, the smart man lives to fight another day.

Do I feel handicapped? Not in the least. There are times that I do feel the want- not necessarily need, to carry a larger pistol, but then I always come back to the Sig .380. It seems that I prefer comfort in my older age.

At home it is a different story. I choose my Mossy 930 or any one of the more effective offerings at my disposal.

 

[Skribs]

Redlg, you could get a Sig P938, almost the exact same size, and have 9mm instead.

I know I can conceal the weapon no matter what I wear. I am aware of my surroundings at all times and if need be, I would rather safely disengage from a conflict than actively engage in one. If...and only if I have to, I have 7 rounds at my disposal to stop the threat, or at the very least, give me time to retreat to a safer position. And yes, the smart man lives to fight another day.

What gun you choose has nothing to do with how you escape from conflict, but everything to do with what happens if you fail to escape from conflict. It's just like capacity or anything like that. "Well I have a 0.2% chance of being attacked on Main Street and a 0.1% chance of being attacked on Adam Street, so I need more firepower on Main Street". Well, in both cases, you might be attacked by the same people. So why do you need more firepower if attacked on Main Street?

 

[Fishbed77]

There are none, people with lesser calibers like to tell story's about magic bullets. Same goes for the 9mm crowd.

Except there are some 9mm loadings that can match some .40S&W loadings (obviously you are getting into +P or +P+ versus standard).

 

[Redlg155]

. "Well I have a 0.2% chance of being attacked on Main Street and a 0.1% chance of being attacked on Adam Street, so I need more firepower on Main Street". Well, in both cases, you might be attacked by the same people. So why do you need more firepower if attacked on Main Street? ______

Using that rationale means that I should just carry a Mossburg 930 12for ga semi auto IWB. eh?

 

[Skribs]

The amount of firepower you need IF attacked has nothing to do with the chance of being attacked. Of course there is always a compromise, especially in pistols, but if your rationale for using a weaker caliber is "I might not get attacked, so I don't need the firepower of the bigger one", then you are polluting the decision of which weapon to carry by adding in factors that don't affect the encounter.

Like I said, if you can carry a 238, you can carry a 938. The size difference between the two is miniscule, meaning you can carry a 938 just as easily, and have a much better performing cartridge.

 

[kokapelli]

The amount of firepower you need IF attacked has nothing to do with the chance of being attacked. Of course there is always a compromise, especially in pistols, but if your rationale for using a weaker caliber is "I might not get attacked, so I don't need the firepower of the bigger one", then you are polluting the decision of which weapon to carry by adding in factors that don't affect the encounter.

Like I said, if you can carry a 238, you can carry a 938. The size difference between the two is miniscule, meaning you can carry a 938 just as easily, and have a much better performing cartridge.

Well, not exactly because the 938 has significantly more felt recoil than the 238.

 

[3twelves]

Well, not exactly because the 938 has significantly more felt recoil than the 238.

Are you going to notice a little more recoil in a SD scenario? NO
You might not even notice you have been shot in a SD scenario.

 

[Skribs]

I haven't even noticed much difference in recoil between the two. The 938 beats up my hand a lot less than my LCP, because it fits better and has a bit more heft to it. That said, after some rough analysis on hit percents and number of assailants on this forum, I won't carry anything with less than 10 rounds in the magazine.

 

[Redlg155]

The 938 magazine capacity is 6, 7 with the extended base. So you don't advocate carrying the 938 now?

 

[Rexster]

In a toe-to-toe frontal shooting, with an unarmored opponent, and no intervening obstacles to provide cover, a .380 ACP might be effective enough, but there are plenty of scenarios where I may want more penetration through any number of things.

I also believe that the more powerful cartridges cycle auto-loading mechanisms more reliably.

This does not mean that I hate the .380, and other cartridges less powerful than typical service/duty cartridges. Indeed, as my formerly stronger hand and wrist are afflicted with chronic conditions, I am considering a number of pistols chambering lower-powered cartridges; my list includes several of the larger-than-pocket-sized .380 pistols, and even .32 ACP is a consideration.

 

[Aaron1100us]

My Wife carries a Bersa Thunder .380 because that is the biggest caliber that she is comfortable with. I see nothing wrong with the .380 and well placed shots. As said before, all pistol calibers suck, even the 357 SIG and .40 S&W that I carry.



Sent from my PB99400 using Tapatalk 2

 

[lobo9er]

380's are a size situation. not power situation. Impossible for me to carry anything else on a regular basis. Unless open carry becomes legal sometime soon...., a 380 in the pocket is better than what ever is in the safe at home...., or how ever that goes

 

[481]

What concerns me most about those Winchester .380 JHPs is that none of them made it more than 8 inches, except for the one that failed to expand after wallboard.

The "service calibers" (9mm-.45) don't seem to have that problem.

 

[gazpacho]

I carry a 380 to make other guys feel good about their manhood.

 

[76shuvlinoff]

I have options to carry .45, .40, 9mm .357 and .380. I grab the little LCP more often than suiting up for the bigger sidearms. I guess that makes me irresponsible or lazy.

I've read above about the LCP having a sharp recoil. I don't find that as the case for me with a finger extension on the mag. At 7 paces I can point and empty the thing into a paper plate rather quickly. As far as I'm concerned that's good for a no sight belly gun.

 

[WvHiker]

I had a KelTec .380 that I traded off for a bunch or reloading equipment. I didn't carry it often and to me it had a lot more recoil than my Glock 19.

I miss my .380 and plan to buy an LCP next month. I do prefer 9mm and the larger, higher capacity 9mm but still see a place for the pocket gun. I'm not too worried about carrying it either, especially in the dead of summer when all anyone wears is a tshirt.

Is this foolish? Maybe it is. I made it over twenty years with no gun at all and if I want to carry a .380 fishing I'm going to.

Carry whatever you want, I'll carry whatever I want, and the next guy can carry whatever he wants. I don't understand why everyone gets so worked up about what other people carry.

 

[RevolvingGarbage]

Im sure most saw this video of a old man shooting a robber 3 times with a .380 and later walked himself to the hospital. If the kids were more determined he could of been killed because he didn't stop the attackers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7S9UxU6G_P8


As for recoil, the little .380 guns (lcp) recoil just as much as a 9mm.

Are you really presenting this video as an argument against .380 as a carry round?

"If the kids were more determined..." So they didnt want it bad enough, and thats why the guy didnt simply turn into the gunfire as any real thug worth his salt would have done? Please.

Ok sure, the guy wasnt instantly vaporized by the little slug, but you can see it made all the bad guys clear out of the scene in a hurry.

 

[Gary A]

Considering the graph posted by 56Hawk, without debating it's accuracy or credibility, it is interesting that it appears that the .380 failed to incapacitate approximately 16% of the time and the 9mm failed to incapacitate approximately 13 to 14% of the time. Or, conversely, the .380 successfully incapacitated 84% of the time and the 9mm incapacitated approximately 86 to 87% of the time.

Seriously folks, if this chart is remotely accurate, are these the differences people are getting their shorts in a wad about?

 

[heeler]

I started concealed carry right at three years ago and started with a Diamondback 380 that finally(two pistols total no less) to be unreliable to use for such work.
Then I bought a very reliable LCP.
Started carrying it in a leather pocket holster.
Very comfortable and weighs fully loaded a mere 12 ounces.
Recoil was not that bad as some said it was.
I am pretty accurate with mine too.
Then I spent a lot of money on a PM9 with nite sights.
Great pistol.
Very accurate and easier to shoot than my LCP.
Weighs 20 onces fully loaded.
However,it does not pocket carry anywhere as easily or slimly as my LCP.
I cannot stand the feel of carrying a pistol IWB method so that's out.
So I find myself going with the LCP far more than the PM9.
But I will admit,and I am sure several of you will seize upon this statement and take me to task,but last week after shooting both the LCP and PM9 I stopped at the drug store to pick something up when suddenly a car with three guys in it came ripping at high speed across the parking lot with a large number of police cars giving chase.
It made me think and the thought was in a violent assault I would probably be more confident using my PM9 than my LCP.
Especially since I had just left the range and had shot the PM9,using Federal HST 147 grain HP's really well.
But today I stopped at the mall and bought a couple of Christmas gifts and felt quite happy to have the ultra slim and reliable LCP in my right hand front pocket.
As they say,beats a sharp stick or throwing rocks.

 

[Aaron1100us]

Does anyone who thinks a .380 isn't good enough willing to be shot by one? I didn't think so All pistol calibers suck. I heard about a guy who was shot by police 18 times with a .40S&W before the guy stopped shooting. Shot placement, not caliber when it comes to hand guns. Not talking large caliber hunting relolvers.

Sent from my PB99400 using Tapatalk 2

 

[dirtengineer]

Are you really presenting this video as an argument against .380 as a carry round?

"If the kids were more determined..." So they didnt want it bad enough, and thats why the guy didnt simply turn into the gunfire as any real thug worth his salt would have done? Please.

Ok sure, the guy wasnt instantly vaporized by the little slug, but you can see it made all the bad guys clear out of the scene in a hurry.

I think the important thing to notice, and the reason why I usually carry my LCP, is that it is easy to conceal and I therefore I won't leave it at home. The guy in that video in Florida was wearing shorts and a short sleeved shirt. The small .380 pistols available make it fairly easy to conceal with even minimal summer clothing and the light weight won't make your shorts fall down.

The .380 is probably less effective all things being equal, but it is infinitely more effective that the full sized pistol you left at home or in your car.

 

[AFDavis11]

Gosh, I hate these threads. Okay, so based on the actual stats posited by 56hawk, if you do not carry a .357 magnum you are a complete raving lunatic of an imbecilic moronic idiot. So that should damper the argument a bit. The .45 and 9 mm simply lack effective stopping power in comparison.

Now in reality we all simply carry guns, and those guns have bullets.

We can't adjust the bullet we carry, dialing up to .357 when we need it. Those of you that carry .45 and 9mm aren't little girls with guns. You might have issues with being strong enough to carry real manly stopping power, but I think, besides being a little ignorant, you guys are just fine.

Then of course there are the guys that are truly men, and bring assault rifles to the fight. Naturally, someone somewhere thinks 12 gauge is the only option.

So, my question to everyone is why don't they carry a more effective round? Yes, that includes you guys carrying the highly less capable .45 app and especially you weaker guys that only carry a 9mm.

What is your excuse? Why are you failing to represent the "stopping power" mantra that you advocate? You guys advocate Sanow? He does not advocate the bullet that you are carrying! Please explain your failure to follow the advice that you are advocating, or explain why you are not capable of reading the entire report, getting it accurately, and ONLY carrying a .357 magnum!

There are some valid reasons.

I choose to carry a .380 because it's the bullet that fits the best in my gun! I tried .45 but they don't fit.

Can't we figure out a way to recommend carrying the most firepower or bullet without getting so hung up on it?

 

[lobo9er]

the "service calibers" (9mm-.45) don't seem to have that problem.

Thats because they are more "powerful" no one will argue that point. 8 inches after heavy clothing is not bad out of a pocket gun. To each his own.