The Deer Hunter's Cartridge

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Shawnee

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We've had a century or so of people wanting to sell new hotrock calibers thumbing their noses at the 30-30. They used trainloads of mumbo-jumbo numbers, imaginary "needs", hypothetical flights of fancy, psuedo-enlightenment, condescending double-talk and other such horse mustard to try to convince deer hunters the 30-30 is woefully inferior - even laughably inferior - to whatever Magnoblaster they are trying to sell last week, or this week, or next week. Even the biggest gunmakers either leave the 30-30 off the drawing boards or consign it to lever-guns or to some of the most graceless bolt-action rifles they can design.

So this thread is for those who know the 30-30 for what it is - a hugely adept deer cartridge that deserves a whale of a lot more positive press than it ever gets. Let's hear from those who know what it will really do from good rifles and handguns, and who would even be tempted if one of the makers brought out a sweet rifle like the 700 Classic, the model 7, the M77, the Model 88, the 660, the BLR, a svelte CZ or the Savage 10 in the "thutty-thutty". Let's see some favorite 30-30 rifle and handgun pics and some groups shot with the 30-30 and hope maybe we can give a place some new shooters finally get to hear some of the very plentiful and well-deserved praise of this EXCELLENT deer cartridge.

:cool:
 
I killed a deer in Dec with a 30-30 Contender at about 75 yards. One shot=classic "BAM-flop". Dead before it hit the ground. I have taken several with the same gun/load and that has been typical.

Nothing a-tall wrong with the "old", originally black powder round (wasn't it?). She still works.
 
And I want to live forever too, but it ain't gonna happen. No offense fellows, but time marches on and some things improve. Caliber selection is one of them.

Still, a .30-30 in a classic lever might be fun. I wouldn't mind picking up a trpper model.

I guess I don't entirely disagree.
 
I killed a deer in Dec with a 30-30 Contender at about 75 yards. One shot=classic "BAM-flop". Dead before it hit the ground. I have taken several with the same gun/load and that has been typical.

Nothing a-tall wrong with the "old", originally black powder round (wasn't it?). She still works.
Click to expand...

I've taken deer with both a rifle and my .30-30 contender and same experience, DRT. I had one go about 15 yards, the other about 25, the rest DRT.

The .30-30 was the very first sporting rifle cartridge in the US designed specifically for smokeless. The nomenclature is the BP style of bullet diameter and powder charge, but in this case it's .30 cal over 30 grains of smokeless (34 grains of 3031 in my case). It works just as well now as it did in 1894, which is very well indeed. It has its limitations, of course, just stay within 'em.
 
This from someone solidly opposed to the "outdated" 30 calibers?

I have one, pre 64, it was made the year I was born so reckon we're both outdated, Yup it'll kill them deers, it's a fine round, none better under the correct conditions.
But in a BLR or 88? Naaa, that's where much newer calibers shine, besides what wrong with the 94 or Marlins?
My 88 was made over 50 years ago in a then brand new cartridge. Good combo at the time and remains so.
 
Hi Eli...

My 88 was a .308 also and quite nice but when someone came along who wanted it more than they wanted a substantial pile of cash, I didn't miss it at all.

May be Heresy of the 1st Water but A Ruger #1 or #3 in 30-30 would please me no end.

:cool:
 
I think the main reason the .30-30 kills so well lies in the bullet construction. Most have lots of lead exposed and probably thinner jackets. I've found that the w/w 150 h/p really works well. Anyway out to about 150 yds. I've never found this old workhorse lacking. Jack O'connor used to load a .30-30 bullet in his .30-06 and said it was "pure poison" on deer and deer sized game. I have friends that look down on the .30-30. They wouldn't be caught dead with anything less than a .270 or a .300 ultra mag.
 
Hey MCGunner...

Are you using a Contender with 12" barrel or an Encore with 15" barrel, or something "custom" ?

What sights are you using and what load/bullet do you like ?

What do you consider your max "certain" range on big deer with your 30-30 pistol ?


:confused::cool:
 
My first deer was taken with a 30-30 and it didnt even get a chance to take one step after it was hit. 30-30 is just a great caliber for mulies and whitetail.
 
there are many fine deer rounds out there but if you are hunting in the woods,where u need a round that will bust through twigs and stay on course
the 30-30 is prob the best there is but if you hunt out in the open with long shots (150 yds or more)its prob not what you want
i personly use a 7mm-08 for all my deer hunting but hey if a 30-30 is geting the job done for you.......why fix something that is not broke?
 
30-30

You can drive a nail with a hammer or a nail gun, but the sucker still gets driven. If I can get the job done with a lever action .30 cal (and have many times), what's the point? Now that's the sort of argument I get from my wife when I start talking about buying a new rifle. You guys already know how to handle that situation, don't you?

You better.
 
I really and truly do love the .30-30. I've put a lot of money into making my Marlin 336 CS into the ultimate .30-30 launcher. I've killed quit a bit with it and I've had nothing get up and run once hit. My bigger guns don't make them any deader.
And Hornady's LEVERevolution rounds make it all the better... just wish they made them in 150 grains.
 
I love my Sears Ted Williams Model 100 in 30-30. I it is handy, and the 30-30 is a very good deer caliber for 125yds and less, which is mostly how I hunt. I've killed several deer and hogs with it with no problems. If it is all I had to hunt with, I could kill deer with it every year.

That said.....time does march on. I don't want to use iron sights early early in the a.m. or late in the evening. A good scope is critical in those low light condistions imho. I'm not about to scope my top eject lever 30-30 either.

So, it gets relegated to being taken out once or twice a year, maybe, when I'm hunting a brush blind or tripod in thick brush. Other than those few times, my Remington 700 BDL in .270 or the ADL in .270 are my go-to deer rifles.

The 30-30, to me, is now kinda like my bow hunting. When I want a challenge and want to handicap myself with open sights and close distances, I carry it. When I am after a big bruiser and/or hunting open spaces, it stays in the safe.
 
It's a mistake to think of the .30-30 as a deer cartridge. It's a deer system.

It is the combination of the cartridge and the rifles in which it is chambered that make it so popular. As the OP points out, the .30-30 has been offered in some of the ugliest bolt-action rifles ever put on the market -- and didn't fare well.

In the Winchester Model 94 and the Marlin Model 336, the .30-30 shines. And it is the suitability of the systems, carbine and cartridge, that determine how well it will do. If you need a light-weight weapon, can do with iron sights, and are a hunter, the .30-30 systems are ideal. If you need a carbine to carry in a saddle boot, the .30-30 systems are ideal.

If you need a rifle for a wider application, where more power and scope sights are needed, the .30-30 may not be the best choice.

(Yes, I know, you can put a scope on a lever action. It's ugly as home-made soap, unbalanced, and will cause you to lose your immortal soul, but you can do it.)
 
As much as I, too, like the .30-30, I'm surprised no-one has mentioned the .35 Rem. If I were going out to find a 336 I'd find one in .35 Rem. I think, in it's day the .30-30 was an offering that tried to be very versatile (much like the .308 today). And it was - deer rifle, ranch rifle, and almost every North American critter has been taken with .30-30s. I agree with whoever said it is part of a system. We need the .30-30, but no longer for that versatility. Today the .30-30 is used almost entirely for dense woods deer. And in a lever gun it is perfect for the job and fun and admit it, "cowboy." But all that said, the same gun gets the same job done a little better I think in .35 Rem.
 
No .30-30s in my safe but I do have a Model 94 chambered in the .30-30's older brother, .32 Win Spl. Like Shawnee said, it is a very effective deer cartridge... out to 200 yards. Those 170 gr flatnoses hit like a ton of bricks. The few deer I've killed with my .32 either dropped in their tracks or travelled a very short distance on adrenaline alone.

My youngest son will be 12 by next deer season. A Marlin .30-30 will either be his first gun or he'll shoot my .243 and my oldest son will get a Marlin .30-30 of his own, but either way, someone's gettin a Marlin .30-30. :)
 
.32 Special was introduced around 1902 or so, it's younger than .30-30. You may be thinking of the .32-40, which is older than .30-30 and was chambered in the Winchester 94.
 
Correct. The .30-30 is "unbalanced" for black powder (too small a bore for the charge, which makes for a bad fouling problem.) Hunters wanted to reload, but smokeless power was like black magic in those days. So Winchester brought out the .32 Special, which is a reasonable bore size for its case capacity.
 
Hey MCGunner...

Are you using a Contender with 12" barrel or an Encore with 15" barrel, or something "custom" ?

What sights are you using and what load/bullet do you like ?

What do you consider your max "certain" range on big deer with your 30-30 pistol ?
Click to expand...

One at a time:

Are you using a Contender with 12" barrel or an Encore with 15" barrel, or something "custom" ?

Old contender with TC's 12" hunter barrel which incorporates a rather effective muzzle brake.


What sights are you using and what load/bullet do you like ?

I have a 2x Tasco Pro Point 30mm scope on it and push a 150 Nosler BT to just shy of 2100 fps with 34 grains of 3031. Works very well. The BT expands well at these velocities.


What do you consider your max "certain" range on big deer with your 30-30 pistol ?

I have no doubt that at 200 yards this load would kill deer quickly as it's making something under 1000, 990 or something ft lbs (have to look it up, but that's close). I sight it 3" high at 100 and it's dead on and shoots 3" groups at 200. However, in the field, unless I'm braced over a good rock or something, getting steady enough to shoot that far is a problem. I have, however, made a 90 yard shot so far. I can't see more'n 150 yards from my stand at my place, so really, the pistol is as effective as any rifle I have provided, again, that I can get steady with it. Both of my stands have gun rests that work pretty well and I've practiced enough to know when I'm not steady enough with it. But, so far, I've passed on only one deer I wanted to shoot, but couldn't get steady and that was a 100 yard shot out of a box blind that was angled such I just couldn't get on it and steady.

So, anyway, the limit isn't the gun/load in the field. I haven't been in any situation I can recall where I could have steadied well enough to make a shot beyond 200 yards. I hear about longer shots with handguns and with a really good, steady rest I can see it, but I'm not interested in anything over 200 yards with a pistol in my area of the state. It's real brushy down here. If I'm on an sendero or something, I'll take a rifle, anyway, LOL. I've never hunted with the gun out west, long shots out there and few supports. If you lay down in the trans Pecos, you risk a belly full of thorns, too. LOL Everything out there has throrns like hypodermic needles. I used to take 4 spare tires on my trips out there and I don't recall ever making it back on all four tires it had when I left. I practice a lot off shooting stix, fairly steady with 'em, but I don't know about 200 off 'em. I haven't had the chance, but at the range I don't do well at 200 off the sticks, hit deer sized vitals every time at 100.
 
Nailed a button buck in October with a 70's vintage 150 grain silvertip at a tad over 100 yards. It zipped right through both lungs without expanding, but the deer went about 20 yards to the fenceline and ran out of steam. Good enough for me.
 
Mr. Humphey, your sentiments mirror mine exactly. I've always believed that the popularity of the 30-30 is largely due to the "package" it was chambered in: the 94 Winchester carbine. Further, I, too, have always preferred the "looks" of the 94 to the Marlin 336 (a factor that has absolutely nothing to do with the ultimate worth of the respective carbines). And, finally, scopes on a carbine destroy their reason for being: unsurpassed handling and balance qualities (for the past fifty years, I have relied on Williams "FoolProof" receiver sights for my Winchester 94 and 1886, my Marlin 39 and even my old early 50's vintage Remington 760).

A confession though: my favorite whitetail deer/black bear set-up for several years has been a Savage 99 chambered in .358 Win., wearing a Redfield 1.5X5 scope !
 
Shawnee, FYI: My Contender is a super 14" barrel and I reload gr 125 Nosler BT's over 28gr IMR 4198. Not a 'barn burner' load, but it will do less than 3/4" at 100 yds from my gun with a 4X on top if I've not drunk too much coffee!

I, too, need a solid rest for long ranges, but I did kill one deer at 175 yds with that setup-also down RIGHT THERE.

As to the other mention of 30-30 bullets in other guns. I have used 150 gr flat nose (with a lot of exposed lead in front) 30-30 bullets loaded to normal velocities in a 30-06. They will absolutely explode varmits such as armadillo, etc. I'd heasitate greatly to use one on deer for fear of too rapid expansion and a big, bad surface wound with little penetration. Neck shots might work.
 
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