The Main Event - Obama @ 11:55 ET.

[Shanghai McCoy]

I took my dog for a walk and cleared brush at my back yard range. Better for my blood pressure and the dog needed excercise...
Now catching up on what went down... not as draconion as we thought but I believe it will be an incremental "first strike", so to speak, by the feds with more to come should these prove to be not effective to their liking.
Plus, this leaves states, like NY, to push through legislation that is more to the anti's agenda under the banner of "State's Right's"... savor the irony there folks.
YMMV

 

[Silent Bob]

As far as prices coming down and things returning more or less to normal (or what passes for normal in the firearms/political community), the Orcs will be swarming the ramparts again next week when Feinstein introduces the onerous AWB 2.0 in the Senate (along with God knows what other anti-gun bills) so we still have a ways to go.

 

[Mayo]

Silent Bob----that is why I said for the informed.

 

[rdhood]

Wow. It's all pretty weak. Some of it might even make a small difference (mental health aspects). NONE of the suggestions for AWB/Hi cap mags ban will pass Congress.

Since I have most of the stuff I want, I was particularly concerned about ammo. But there doesn't seem to be any new restrictions on ammo (no requirement for FFL, no ban of internet sales of ammo) and FTF transactions (A lot of folks have issues with this, but I wouldn't care about needing an FFL for FTF transactions... if it were FREE. Otherwise, it costs money to exercise a constitutional right.)

This should go a long way to returning the gun market to normalcy. So sorry for all of you that spent HUGELY inflated $$$ on mags/guns/ammo. Remember this lesson and get on board a bit earlier next time.

 

[G21NE]

+1. Anyone know where the actual text of the EOs can be read?

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...-gun-proposals-documents.html?smid=tw-nytimes

Last 2 pages of the document.

 

[Mayo]

rdhood----Amen!

 

[HarcyPervin]

Silent Bob----that is why I said for the informed.

Ding ding ding. Let the masses overpay. Show the strength of the industry. THR may have a lot more knowledge per gun owner, but reflects a very small percentage of the purchasing power of the American gun-owning population.

 

[TNBear]

This is not over..
They still need to provide a specific definition of an "Assault Weapon".
I don't trust any of them..

 

[blarby]

A small seque...

The man is a died in the wool socialist

In all fairness, can we please stop bastardizing this word ?

If you are going to use it, at least please quantify it. Its like saying " WE BAN ALL GUN- BECAUSE GUN IS GUN"

( no offense to you vet- you didn't invent this travesty, just the most recent to bring it up, and I try and mock it much like we do "clips" eevery time I hear/see it)

Communism too, While we're at it.

He's nothing of the sort I personally assort with Socialsm- Usually Leninism, although vaguely associated. The way that most view deragotively "his" form of "socialism" advanced under this "banner" is Trotskyism IE- Vanguardism, and couldn't actually be further from its core tenets. About the best he claims to want to do is make the middle class bigger, and better protected....that would be about the extent of it, hence my classification of him as a Trotsky.

Its our version of "Assault Weapon" and "CLIPS" to "them" by the way.... It makes us look willingly un-informed about basic language and ideology. Just sayin......

 

[HoosierQ]

I suspect if you're taking Prozac, you're gonna have some issues. That's what item 2 (on the list I saw) seems to mean. And if some of our members are true to their words, they may be happy about that. See this post.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=695696

"Address unnecessary legal barriers, particularly relating to the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, that may prevent states from making information available to the background check system."

HIPAA makes it hard to get a hold of medical records without a darn good reason. I think this just made buying a gun, getting a CCP, or maybe even owning a gun "a darn good reason" to take a look at our medical records. They are full of diagnosis codes that are easy for computers to spot. There's one for "depression", there's one for "anxiety", there's one for just about every discrete disease...of the body or mind. So you gotta wonder how deep this goes. "depression" is OK, "psychosis" is NO-GO? Who knows.

 

[rvanpelt]

Did Obama mention regulating violence on TV or in kid's video games??

 

[Rocketmedic]

I actually wholeheartedly respect what President Obama is trying to do, although I do not support everything he does (namely, an AWB).

Then again, I just spent twelve hours cooped up in an ambulance with a right-wing nutjob who told me in no uncertain terms that "you soldier boys had better not come for my guns, because 1776 is going to happen again!" and who apparently believes Alex Jones is the fountain of truth.

Looks like an artful dodge- the next mass shooting will probably not have been affected at all by an EO (after all, if it were, we would never know) and the next little pile of innocent victims will be laid squarely at the feet of Congress, and a little more American freedom will be bartered away for the illusion of security.

Constitutional convention with all the Red States? We're always complaining how NY/CA pick the president, let's put our money where our mouth is and amplify the 2nd Amendment. Universal carry, a national shall-issue or constitutional-issue FOID, with constitutional protections against buybacks, seizures and the like except in the event of a crime or other heinous disqualifying act.

 

[Pensfan]

he did mention violence in video games, but it was more lip service than anything.

 

[SuperNaut]

, a national shall-issue or constitutional-issue FOID, with constitutional protections against buybacks, seizures and the like except in the event of a crime or other heinous disqualifying act.

No.

 

[Rocketmedic]

I suspect if you're taking Prozac, you're gonna have some issues. That's what item 2 (on the list I saw) seems to mean. And if some of our members are true to their words, they may be happy about that. See this post.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=695696

"Address unnecessary legal barriers, particularly relating to the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, that may prevent states from making information available to the background check system."

HIPAA makes it hard to get a hold of medical records without a darn good reason. I think this just made buying a gun, getting a CCP, or maybe even owning a gun "a darn good reason" to take a look at our medical records. They are full of diagnosis codes that are easy for computers to spot. There's one for "depression", there's one for "anxiety", there's one for just about every discrete disease...of the body or mind. So you gotta wonder how deep this goes. "depression" is OK, "psychosis" is NO-GO? Who knows.

Hoosier, I've seen hundreds of young vets trying to get a PTSD/anxiety diagnosis from the VA. I warned them that it may affect their rights in the future, but no one listened. Then again, if someone is truly mentally ill, I don't necessarily think that they should have the right to own a firearm without some sort of treatment or further examination. I don't think it's black-and-white.

 

[sansone]

IMHO-
he blinked but keep the pressure on your rep in congress..

it aint over but we can take a breath

 

[sean326]

This is not over..
They still need to provide a specific definition of an "Assault Weapon".
I don't trust any of them..

I think they'll just push for Feinsteins bill, i read it a couple weeks ago as i recall it was a semi auto rifle with one military characteristic.
The military characteristics were the usual suspects: Pistol grip, flash hider, handle, bayonet lug, vertical fore grip, detachable magazine, thumb-hole stock etc...
the previous law required 2 military characteristics, they said that was a loophole they now closed.

 

[HarcyPervin]

Hoosier, I've seen hundreds of young vets trying to get a PTSD/anxiety diagnosis from the VA. I warned them that it may affect their rights in the future, but no one listened. Then again, if someone is truly mentally ill, I don't necessarily think that they should have the right to own a firearm without some sort of treatment or further examination. I don't think it's black-and-white.

Scary to think about in both scenarios. I'd hate to see someone not getting treated out of fear of losing rights, or someone losing those rights just for being responsible. It's going to be really interesting where the line is drawn and how easy it is to move from one side to the other

 

[cluck]

$500 million for WHAT?

I completely bypassed the garbage at the first part of the document (proposed legislation) and went straight to the EO's. What exactly does he REALLY have the power to do? At first, I was relieved. Then I was MAD! $500 million to encourage the federal government to do their *$&#^%* JOB?!?!! Hey BO, how about EO #24. Find out why the ATF gave thousands of firearms to criminals in Mexico!

 

[-v-]

The one I take greatest offense to is "No sale, manufacture or possession of armor piercing bullets" Ok...how do you define AP? Its well known that ANY rifle bullet is armor-piercing versus soft armor. Does that mean that its a round-about ban on any and all rifles?

Likewise, I'd be curious to hear some statistics about how many times honest-to-goodness AP ammo has been used in a crime. My guess is about as often as these dangerous .50 cal rifles that can be used to shoot down an airliner....

Weakening HIPPA is going to be a tough sell and I also doubt its a positive way to go.

 

[Swing]

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...mid=tw-nytimes

Last 2 pages of the document.

Thanks for the note. I've read that, but that appears to be a summary and not the full text of the EO.

 

[G21NE]

Hmm, well, maybe the White House site will have the full document. Maybe the one the NY times has is just the preliminary summary, and even that they couldn't release until the Pres started speaking.

 

[Deus Machina]

Saving face. So far, that's just about all.

And setting up the ATF for his plan, without addressing the earlier issues with it. Congress should still be pressing on that one.

Overall, look back at #150 and #163 for my view on that.

 

[ngnrd]

1. Issue a Presidential Memorandum to require federal agencies to make relevant data available to the federal background check system.
2. Address unnecessary legal barriers, particularly relating to the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, that may prevent states from making information available to the background check system.
4. Direct the Attorney General to review categories of individuals prohibited from having a gun to make sure dangerous people are not slipping through the cracks.
14. Issue a Presidential Memorandum directing the Centers for Disease Control to research the causes and prevention of gun violence.
16. Clarify that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit doctors asking their patients about guns in their homes.
17. Release a letter to health care providers clarifying that no federal law prohibits them from reporting threats of violence to law enforcement authorities.
20. Release a letter to state health officials clarifying the scope of mental health services that Medicaid plans must cover.
21. Finalize regulations clarifying essential health benefits and parity requirements within ACA exchanges.
22. Commit to finalizing mental health parity regulations.
23. Launch a national dialogue led by Secretaries Sebelius and Duncan on mental health.

As you can see... 10 of the 23 EO's are related to mental health; mostly related to data collection. This is a big deal, because it seems like this is the "something" that could be done, that would likely be accepted by the majority of the public.

The problem is, the health care bill, which the President just pushed so hard to pass, includes specific language that expressly prohibits the collection of any data, or the maintaining of any records, regarding the lawful possession, ownership, or use of firearms or ammunition. So... even if he wanted to push for gun restrictions based on mental health (although I'm not exactly confident that even that process wouldn't get abused - "Oh, you want to buy a gun? You must be unstable. Therefore, you are prohibited from buying a gun."), he has hobbled the health care industry in regards to collecting and reporting relevant data. Thus, the ... um... clarifying ... of the new health care law in EO #16, and more specifically, EO #2.

On a slight tangent, it must be frustrating to the President that the one thing that is surely the most politically safe (read: most acceptable to most people) response to gun violence, is something that his flagship legislation doesn't seem to allow him to do.

Here's a snippet from the PPACA:

(1) Wellness and prevention programs.--A wellness and health promotion activity implemented under subsection (a)(1)(D) may not require the disclosure or collection of any information relating to--
(A) the presence or storage of a lawfully-possessed firearm or ammunition in the residence or on the property of an individual; or
(B) the lawful use, possession, or storage of a firearm or ammunition by an individual.

There's other, similar language included as well, but I didn't want to paste the entire section. You can look it up here if you are so inclined. It's a big document. A word search for "gun rights" will get you to the appropriate section quickly.

 

[John_galt]

As a Dr. - I will never ask a pt about there guns except in 2 cases. Suicidal ideation to assess how realistic pts plan is (been doing that for years and will continue). Discussing mutual interest in firearms with a pt (been doing that for years and will continue).

Unfortunately a lot of Drs will. The new healthcare law require huge amounts of data to be collected for the Feds under what they call meaningful use. They haven't been very clear on what they plan to do with it. Some of it may actually be helpful, most of it is politically motivated. Many of the CMS certified office programs include "guns in the home" in a form that is ammenable to data mining. This one isn't new was already in the works, but I haven't seen that it is a reportable data point - yet. The reporting of imminent danger pts is a long well established thing. Nothing new in either of those respects but annoying that doctor-pt relationship is used to push an agenda based on a tradgedy.

This is just as much a privacy issue, cloaked in 2nd Ammendment. Similar to the Healthcare Law - huge violations of privacy based on the perception of a crisis in healthcare.