The Millennial Point of View

Status
Not open for further replies.

Rocketmedic

Member
Joined
Dec 23, 2010
Messages
491
Location
Texas
http://washingtonexaminer.com/obama-reid-slam-brakes-on-gun-control/article/2516406?utm_campaign=obinsite#.UNZlxm88CSo

It appears that the President is slowing down the knee-jerk reactions to Sandy Hook. Why? Well, the prevailing right-wing theory is a plot to sew together comprehensive legislation and hammer out deals. I personally think that he's trying to do just that. However, this could be a good thing for us- a chance to put together a PR campaign that doesn't suck, a chance to defend ourselves.

On that, I'm going to get on my soap box here about the NRA. Please read it before you flame me.

I'm a young man, about to be 24. I'm a veteran, currently serving in the National Guard. I'm a combat veteran who understands the power and responsibility of firearms first-hand. I've killed a man with my assigned rifle. I'm white, I live in the Midwest, and I tend to be fiscally conservative. I drive a pickup, listen to country music most of the time, and am married. I own two pistols, three rifles and one shotgun. I am a paramedic and see innocent people assaulted pretty frequently, and infrequently deal with victims of gunshot wounds (whether or not they deserved those wounds is not my job, but some of them did, legally or illegally). Most importantly to the NRA and gun-rights organizations, I'm socially and politically intelligent and active and affluent enough to have a small chunk of disposable income. I also have a touch of Asperger's and was raised as a latchkey kid with divorced parents- sound familiar?

Their response to this tragedy, and the response of the gun community as a whole, has both sickened and angered me. No, I'm not a troll or some bleeding-heart liberal Fantasylander, nor am I a plant. I am literally just another white guy in Central Oklahoma. I'm literally the poster child for American gun owners.

The National Rifle Association is calling for limitations on the First Amendment to protect kids from video games and movies and television violence, on the grounds that it programs us. That's really, really insulting to me and my generation. I grew up playing first-person shooters, hack-and-slash video games, and watching gory movies. My father even took me on a few EMS calls, where I saw trauma and death first-hand. I didn't go shooting as a kid until high school, and then it was with a friend who'd grown up in a similar way and was totally unsupervised. (In California, nonetheless!). Literally everything I knew about guns when I picked up my friend's rifle for the first time was taken from a few safety lectures my dad had given me, Rainbow Six, Medal of Honor, the Internet and Band of Brothers.

Even as a soldier, where proper and safe weapons handling is drilled into you, I still learned quite a bit from games. Doubt me? Load up ARMA or Operation Flashpoint, or even a multiplayer FPS with teammates dedicated to realistic play. You'll learn the same tactics, strategies and techniques that soldiers in Stalingrad and Normandy paid for with blood, and you'll get to practice until you're sick, with no real danger. You're effectively one reset button away from immortality, and you can get better with every repetition. It's training in the purest sense of the word. No, it's not perfect, but it is as close as a 10 y/o with an Xbox can get. Aiming at man-sized targets in a simulated 600-meter engagement and calculating shot placement based on reticles, windage and motion is actually pretty similar to doing it "for real" in terms of preparing you to aim at another human being. Even in Iraq, aiming at an insurgent, I was mentally treating it like it was Battlefield or something- a synthesis of years of training and target recognition and practice. I think that the general increase in competence of American and Western soldiers as compared to the Vietnam-era force may be related to the proliferation of relatively exciting, realistic first-person shooters and the lessons learned from them. Doubt it, older readers? Go watch your grandkids play Black Ops 2 or Halo 4 or whatnot. You might not see good teamwork, but you'll see a near-mastery of understanding kill zones, channeling, dead ground, sniping and sniper hides, ammunition management and even teamwork in many cases. Simply put, we're starting kids on infantry team drills when they're old enough to pick up a controller, and this isn't a bad thing. This is our generation's version of sending you out with a rifle to go hunt up some dinner.

I also played a lot of GTA, killed a lot of virtual cops, and a few hookers (it's really easier to simply buy them and then employ them, since you'll end up getting more money in the long run, and younger High Roaders will probably remember the GTA 3 bridge glitch, where you become essentially unreachable as waves of police officers drive into the ocean and drown). GTA also teaches a very important lesson early- gun-free zones are far safer than gun-owning zones. Doubt it? Play through GTA 3 or anything newer, without cheating (at least not too much). Go through an area with a lot of unarmed people and start shooting (say, the rich parts of Liberty City or San Andreas). You're an angel of death until the police get truly overwhelming. Try it in a territory controlled by a rival gang or out in the sticks and you're in for a fight that will generally drive you off. That's quite possibly the only relevant lesson in the entire game- and that's the point! When Wayne "Retarded Old Guy" LaPierre or whatever his name is started calling on some of my favorite antique games as indoctrination for murderers, it showed just how out of touch he and his supporters really are. To quote Tycho Brahe (a popular Internet writer), "It is a strange sort of patriot who would destroy the First Amendment to protect the Second." Grand Theft Auto, Dynasty Warriors, and every other video game exist for recreation. They're no different than three-gun matches, target shooting, or reloading. That we can imagine being a professional athlete, pilot, or commando, experience a rendition of our great-grandparent's once-in-a-lifetime greatest moments, or even blow off steam by shooting up a city is a precious thing indeed, and one that should not be regulated by government or any power other than our own parents. To those who point out that we already regulate the first amendment, I would reply that we should also regulate the second to the same degree. Do we, as gun owners, really want to open that can of worms?

Let me put it in simple terms: Those who would attempt to blame and thus regulate art, speech, and expression, and my right to those things, are no more friends to me than those who would seek to limit my right to self-defense or redress of grievances, regardless of the number of guns they own or who they would have in elected office. When the NRA declares that violent video games influenced Adam Lanza, it only makes their leaders and members appear more senile, less in tune with society, and less deserving of consideration. They are also being dishonest with the core issues, and I do not support dishonest people, regardless of their politics. (That's why I voted for Obama over Romney, incidentally. He was more honest.)

Second, mental health. There really isn't a consistent infrastructure to provide mental health services in the same sense that we have for physical health, but there are resources. They exist in most cities, in many counties, and in all states. They are overloaded, underfunded, and understaffed, but they are there. An effort to expand mental healthcare is appreciated, but doomed as presented. First, proposals to 'improve' mental health-care are all based upon identification of troubled people and their essentially permanent commitment to prison. Do you know why asylums, county mental health homes, and other places of incarceration have basically vanished? It's because they don't work. You argue that these shooters showed signs of snapping, and they did. At least three (AZ, VT and Aurora) were flagged by school psychologists as pending dangers. Would involuntary incarceration months or years prior to those threats have helped? Possibly. But every time someone suggests that we bring back the "county home for the mentally ill", let's take off the rose-colored glasses and remember that those homes were institutions where rape, torture, and maltreatment were regular things. LGBT persons, autistics, Asperger's, and a laundry list of other "disorders" were simply incarcerated, by the tens of thousands, for "treatment" at the benevolence of the state, by "accepted" means like surgeries, drugs, and behavioral modification. Many of those patients were assaulted, battered, and raped, either by staff or by eachother. Most of them are better-treated in society than they could ever be by society. Don't believe me? A family member, a close friend of mine, has suffered from a mental illness. That family member, in the 1950s, would likely have been involuntarily committed to a mental institution, held there for months or years, possibly have been raped, and subjected to batteries of experimental "therapies" and drugs dangerous to health. Those who complain about SSRIs should look into what earlier drugs did to people. Today, that family member is a responsible, productive member of society, a loving, caring, participating family member, and even a gun owner. Does there need to be a stronger emphasis on mental health care and provision of service? Yes, undoubtedly. However, there also needs to be a realization that mental health care is no different than physical health care in that it is the ultimate responsibility of the individual to seek treatment, not the State. To argue otherwise is to endorse a police state where life itself is subject to the whims of government. Yes, there are hundreds of thousands of Americans who are too ill to decide for themselves, and who should be committed. They are often the homeless, the indigent, and the elderly. They are not the problem here.

To those who advocate armed guards at every school and their conversions to prisons, I have no truly good reply. It is a sad state of affairs when we are willing, as a society, to accept that mass murder and violence against our children is so pervasive as to require armed guards at elementary schools. Desert Knolls, Rancho Verde, and even poverty-striken Valle Verde Elementary didn't have metal detectors, security guards, or even controlled access. Neither did Live Oak, Pomolita Junior High, Earl Warren or Shadow Hills. My high school didn't either, although it did have a part-time SRO who was ever-present at lunch (especially with the gang problems we had in 2005). That we accept the loss of liberty and the need for armed guards for our children in lieu of real fixes is not an answer I find acceptable. Unlike many of those who will read this, I have been to a country where nearly half of the workforce was employed as "guards", "police" or in a security role. There were no other jobs, no opportunity, endless violence, corruption and graft. Crime was still a problem. If we're going to harden schools, the next shooting will be at a Wal-Mart, a mall, or a park. Maybe at a zoo, or maybe at a concert. Where will we draw the line and accept that armed guards are not the answer? (Liberals, take heed. Armed security guards are not the answer).

We are not going to be able, as a society, to identify every mentally-ill person, simply by the nature of their illness. We are not going to be able to respect anyone's freedom to bear arms, speak, or live their life in pursuit of happiness if we place American life on lockdown. Do we really want to have a nation where daycare requires an AR-15 and a tactical team on perimeter security, or where driving a new car home triggers a neighborhood alert?

What we can do is control legal access to firearms, expand access to mental health resources, rethink the War on Drugs, and expand carry of firearms for defense. No, Adam Lanza could not have been stopped by anything short of biometrics on the gun itself or the absence of firearms period. Holmes, Loughner, and the VT shooter were all legally allowed to buy weapons and did so. The vast majority of the gun crime in this nation is committed by people who cannot legally own or carry weapons in the first place. Firearms, ammunition and accessories are easy to buy, easy to sell and easy to use and misuse. We, as a community of Americans, need to change that.

First, carry is a good thing. Legal carriers do not commit crimes at the same rate as the general population, and are far less likely to be involved in violent crimes. They are generally better-educated, more affluent, and better-trained than your average American, and far more so than the inner-city African-Americans that are the majority of our criminals. Carriers are also the only realistic answer to active shooters that does not involve Fortress America and an Orwellian police state or complete disarmament. I am not naive enough to force mandatory carry of a weapon on all who are able- many people simply do not want that, and it is not our right or the government's to force my ideals on another person. However, I believe and point to the Pearl, MS shooting that was resolved rapidly by an assistant principal and his pistol as evidence that carry works, far more rapidly than a police response, and I believe that many people would choose to carry a pistol, openly or concealed, were it legitimized in society (liberals, this means that Gun-Free Zones and propaganda needs to reflect social realities; conservatives, this means that we should not be forcing guns on people who don't want them). At Sandy Hook, the principal and school psychologist tried to take on an armed man with bare hands, and were gunned down immediately. Teachers tried to confront him and died messy, near-futile deaths as well. Clawing nails against bullets is not a winning strategy. Charging a man with a semi-automatic rifle is not a winning strategy. Keeping teachers and faculty from carrying guns legally will ignore the lessons every mass shooting has taught us.

On the other hand, we as Americans and gun owners specifically need to realize that there are some weapons that are quite intentionally deadlier than others. Yes, any gun can kill, but there is a reason that most American infantrymen carry an M4 into battle instead of a Remington 700, and that just one man armed with a modern assault rifle, even against armed opposition, is still wielding superior firepower as compared to any pistol or manually-operated action available. There is a reason that these weapons are constantly used by active shooters- it is simply easier to kill a lot of people quickly with a semiautomatic AR than it is with a lever-action rifle or a shotgun or bolt-action or revolver, especially if they may be armed and resisting. That's why the military and police use semi-automatic weapons now. Yes, magazine limits and the AWB are essentially worthless, but they are shot full of holes from the start to enable the continued sale and use of those weapons. Perhaps it is time to consider tighter regulations and more restrictive pricing of semi-automatic weapons. (I, for one, would support a tiered addition of semi-automatic firearms with detachable magazines onto the NFA registry, in exchange for constitutionally-guaranteed carry, ammunition, and acquisition protections for all firearms on a federal level. Said system would essentially place semi-automatic weapons with detachable magazines at price points significantly higher than revolvers and manual actions, thus limiting their availability. However, the NFA registry for semi-automatic and perhaps automatic firearms would be opened up as well and kept open. If you're willing to spend three thousand dollars on an AR-15 and ammunition for a few hours of shooting, and you're in compliance with regulations to own an NFA item, you're not a likely criminal). Would those with carry pistols find themselves subject to similar sanction? Perhaps, although I would personally believe no. A pistol is harder to kill a lot of people with than a rifle, and even with frequent magazine changes, it's simply harder to aim, less powerful, and less lethal. (I support carry, if you haven't noticed). Perhaps some sort of lower fee schedule for semi-automatic vs automatic. Broadly, I would like to see us as owners attempt to make guns as pervasive as cars in our culture, with similar responsibilities.

Lastly, old folks, you need to get with the times. At my LGS today, I heard the owner talking about the UN coming to "take our guns". That's simply not going to happen, not with Barack or Mitt "AWB" Romney or even Hillary in office. Yes, Obama is a centrist multiracial Democratic president. He also crushed Romney in a free, open and legal election, mostly by being in touch with reality. He has made mistakes (Eric Holder), but so has every President. He is the lawfully-elected leader of the USA, a father, a husband, and a man. He is forced to deal daily and be faulted for the failures of a Congress with a stated ambition to ruin him, partisan opposition that literally cannot present even a coherent objection to his policies, and a populace that still has a strong minority that places a football game over a national tragedy. He is belittled constantly on account of his skin color, his imagined place of birth, his ancestry, and his centrist policies. He has literally done more for gun rights than Richard Nixon or Ronald Reagan have done, and he is even now stalling for time to defuse the worst of his loyalist's knee-jerk reactions. He may not like the Second Amendment, but maybe that's just his personal experience. I probably wouldn't be a Second Amendment fan if I were a poor, law-abiding black man in downtown Oklahoma City either. Obama isn't trying to pull an Australia on us, he's trying to avert perceived financial disaster. Gun control is pretty far down on his priority list.

When publically-vocal gun owners, in speech, print or online, act as if the President of the United States is an n-word worthy only of scorn or a traitor, what do you think that shows most Americans, gun-owning or not? I have a policy of not associating with fools, regardless of their beliefs. It's why I don't smoke pot and didn't in school, it's why I don't drink, and it's why I roll my eyes every time someone claims to be a member of the "militia" ready to fight to defend their guns. (Side note- most of those 'militias' are neighborhood watch associations at best. At worst, they're thinly-veiled armed bigots with grudges against those who graduated high school. They're no match for the US Army). It's fools like those who will do us more harm than Dianne Feinstein or Chuck Schumer ever will.

So, basically, gun owners, we need to tighten up our shot groups, stop accepting bigots and fools into our ranks, and do a lot more to advocate changes in gun law that keep the next shooting as small as possible. And please, please stop acting retarded, misspelling words, and generally showcasing your ignorance. It's really, really hard to defend your right to carry a pistol in public when you use exclamation points to end every sentence or cannot spell "bear" correctly. "Bare" arms would imply that you were wearing a wifebeater or T-shirt.

Give my generation a reason to respect your opinions and you'll have our support. Give us a reason to scorn you and we will break you like we broke Mitt Romney. The first step to that needs to be a change of message from the NRA.
 
Thank you for posting this. It was well written, and makes some good points. As someone who is fairly close to your age, I sort of understand where you're coming from.

1. I agree about the shot (no pun intended) the NRA took at the media. It makes them look bad, and that was the worst part of the whole speech, however, did they actually say they wanted restrictions on them, or did they just call them out?

2. You made a very good point about mental asylums that I hadn't considered. However, I don't recall you mentioning a solution to the mental health problem we have. Do you have one?

3. I dislike your idea about trading federally recognized carry rights in exchange for NFA listing all semi-autos with detachable mags. With the recent court decision in Illinois, all 50 states have concealed carry laws. So there's not much to gain from that. Also, would this NFA registering grandfather in current semi-autos, or would they all need to be registered?

3a. If the answer is the latter, do you own a firearm in this category, and would you gladly register yours?

Under that idea, a 10 round MAS 49 would be an NFA item, but an SKS would not, because it's magazine is non-detachable, and requires stripper clips to get similar reloading speeds. That doesn't seem logical. Not only that, but this would include almost all semi-automatic pistols, which make up a large majority of self defense weapons.

4. I agree about the "tin-foil" types.
 
Last edited:
Interesting read. Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts, and thank you for your service.

But... I totally disagree with a lot of what you said. Not all of it though.

I'm a young 17, and have been playing games like Battlefield and Call of Duty for years. I agree with a lot of what you said about them- I knew how to operate an AK before I ever even picked one up. Grand Theft Auto? I personally hate games where you're killing police officers and using women, but if you want to play that, that's your choice. Not my problem.

But your ideas about making semi autos NFA or more expensive? That just ticked me off. Just because you are a well off white college grad doesn't make you superior to everyone else. The single father working a lousy job has just as much a CONSTITUTIONAL right to protect himself and anyone else with a semi auto rifle as you or anyone else does... who do you think you are? What you are suggesting is unconstitutional, elitist trash. Rich white guys (and I am a well off white myself) get glocks and ARs but those inferior folks are only good enough to have a revolver?
 
I'm a non-college educated white guy (actually on the poor side for Yukon, OK), making about $42,000 a year between the active Army and a side job as a paramedic, now cut due to ETSing (I'll be lucky to make $40k pretax next year), with a family. My guns are all discounted, bought from private sellers or stores cheaply (even my wife's CCW was discounted due to a scratch on the slide) and I don't shoot much because I simply can't afford it. I don't own an AR, one reason is because I can't afford to shoot it much. I also work 48-60 hours a week to keep my family fed and housed.

I'm hardly one of the 'elite'.

Is it elitist to cost-regulate the weapons most optimized to kill a lot of people really quickly? What exactly does an AR-15 do for you that a pump-action shotgun or lever-action carbine doesn't do in a home-defense type scenario?
 
But your ideas about making semi autos NFA or more expensive?

Agree completely.

Giving in and compromising seems all fine and dandy 'til one remembers that the next tragedy will have the antis back for more, asking for another concession(s). It'll never stop. Ever.

We've got enough gun laws and restrictions already- it's time to start protecting our children like we do our politicians, sports figures, celebrities, nukes, and gold.

Get rid of the "gun free zones" (costs nothing), arm our teachers and administrators (CCWs ain't that expensive) and construct our schools with an eye towards making them less accessible to those who wish to kill our kids.
 
The art of compromise does not involve offering your opponent more than they have asked for.

A tiered NFA registry for all semi-automatics is something that Feinstein and McCarthy probably only imagine in their wilder fantasies.
 
So we, as gun owners, really want to have our civic centers, schools, malls, and eventually homes built as fortresses impregnable to exterior forces?

I personally don't want an America where my kid's school was built to survive an infantry assault and under armed guard for fear of a madman. If our culture's that violent, maybe we should look at some stringent gun control.
 
I'm literally the poster child for American gun owners.

Where can I purchase this poster?

If you're willing to spend three thousand dollars on an AR-15 and ammunition for a few hours of shooting, and you're in compliance with regulations to own an NFA item, you're not a likely criminal).
Class warfare much?

I daresay old boy, Can't let the rabble get their grubby little paws on of any of those new-fangled self loaders eh? Haw Haw Haw.


He has literally done more for gun rights than Richard Nixon or Ronald Reagan have done, and he is even now stalling for time to defuse the worst of his loyalist's knee-jerk reactions.
What has Obama done that has benefited the average American gunowner?
 
I agree wholly with the OPs stance regarding the First Ammendment and video games. Trampling on our right to expression trough media to protect gun rights is deplorable and the NRA should be ashamed for even suggesting it.

But Rocketmedic, as a soldier and a gun owner, you should know the real intent of the Second Amendment. I'm a soldier who's deployed as well, and getting ready to go for my third time in a few months.
The Second Amendment is not to put food on the table, to blast caly pigeons, or even so citizens can protect themselves from criminals.

It's so citizens can protect themselves from us. The soldiers.

The Bill of Rights and the Second Amendment is so that each citizen can protect his or herself from a tryannical government. And who would they be fighting? Cops and military. I hate to admit it, but not all of our brothers and sisters in arms would stand up to our leadership and say "No, I will not fight other Americans". Some will go along with it. Either because they agree or because they're too weak willed to do anything but say "Yes sir" and follow the crowd. The Second Amendment is there to give each citizen a fighting chance to preserve their own liberty, even if the armed might of the US government sets out against them.

You cannot do that effectively with the gun control "solutions" you are proposing. Citizens need military weapons. Not only the semi-autos they currently have, but full auto an crew served as well. Hell, if someone or a "state guard" like they have in TX has the funds, let them have tanks and Apaches too. Citizens need to be able to fight back, either as a group or individually. It's how we won our freedom the first time. And if it comes down to it again, it will be necessary to do it that way a second (or third depending on your POV) time.

I will not be a modern day Redcoat. But some will. How do you suggest Americans save themselves?
 
He has literally done more for gun rights than Richard Nixon or Ronald Reagan have done, and he is even now stalling for time to defuse the worst of his loyalist's knee-jerk reactions.

President Regan signed the FOPA of '86. President Obama banned the importation of M1 Garands and M1 Carbines from South Korea, rifles that were sitting in storage gathering dust.
 
RocketMedic said:
So, basically, gun owners, we need to tighten up our shot groups, stop accepting bigots and fools into our ranks, and do a lot more to advocate changes in gun law that keep the next shooting as small as possible.

If you think substantially more stringent gun control laws are the right answer, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. But that does not make people with differing opinions bigots or fools.

You advocate a tiered inclusion of semi-automatic weapons in the NFA registry. What would that accomplish beyond added cost and bureaucracy?

Would your proposal not put semi-automatic weapons out of the reach of poorer people? Do you believe that a person's fundamental constitutional right of self defense can or should be limited because they are poor?
 
As another 24-year-old, long-time gamer who works in EMS, I too agree that the NRA's response was less than satisfactory. The thing is that it's not what guns are available, it's not what games are available, it's not the movies, it's not the TV. It's just insane people doing insane things.

Events like Sandy Hook aren't really "crimes". They're more akin to natural disasters. They're rare, generally unpredictable, and often unpreventable. We can only hope to mitigate their ultimate effect and history has shown that more gun restrictions don't do that.
Anders Behring Breivik jumped through all the legal hoops to get what he needed to do his thing. He got permits for the guns he used and even started a fake farming company to buy the necessary fertilizer to make bombs (Tim McVeigh, on the other hand, just stole it).
If my sole intention in getting an assault weapon is to kill as many people as possible and probably die in the process, cost, registration, and the law are going to be a non-issue to me. Worst comes to worst, I'd just steal them. If only cops had them, I'd kill cops to obtain them OR even work my ass off to BECOME a cop and then go about my merry massacre. And let's not forget that the worst school attack in US history (Bath 1927) was perpetrated with Dynamite and the two worst terrorist attacks in US history were carried out with a fertilizer bomb (Oklahoma City) and boxcutters (9/11).

Add in the fact that registration (especially of the retroactive variety) is unconstitutional and foolhardy as it violates right to privacy and criminals aren't even legally required to comply since forced registration would be classified as forced self-incrimination.
Also, making the good guns unavailable to the poor (i.e. the people who probably need them the most) is just plain unethical.

tl;dr
I agree that old-timers who constantly say "Back in my day..." aren't helping, but more gun control is not the answer; I don't 100% buy that "something has to be done" or that something even can be done; and it's just as bad to sell out the poor as it is to throw the 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th, and 14th amendments under the bus.
 
A pistol is harder to kill a lot of people with than a rifle, and even with frequent magazine changes, it's simply harder to aim, less powerful, and less lethal.
Certainly an odd thing to say after Sandy Creek and Virginia Tech, considering both involved pistols.
 
HDCamel said:
Add in the fact that registration (especially of the retroactive variety) is unconstitutional

The NFA was based on retroactive registration and SCOTUS upheld the constitutionality of the NFA.

Congressional Record, Volume 78, Part 10, June 13, 1934, Page 11399
From the original text of the National Firearms Act:
Sec. 5. (a) Within 60 days after the effective date of this act every person possessing a [NFA] firearm shall register, with the collector of the district in which he resides, the number or other mark identifying such firearm, together with his name, address, place where such firearm is normally kept ...
 
Is it elitist to cost-regulate the weapons most optimized to kill a lot of people really quickly? What exactly does an AR-15 do for you that a pump-action shotgun or lever-action carbine doesn't do in a home-defense type scenario?

Yes, it is. As you stated yourself earlier, we don't equip the military with pump shotguns and lever-action carbines. Why should the average American citizen have his own defensive capabilities artificially hobbled?

Sorry, but we don't need any additional registration, regulation, or taxes (at least any that target guns specifically). As a group gun owners have significantly advanced our cause and the court of public opinion is far more on our side now than 20 years ago when the original AWB is passed.

I'm not giving up any of my rights, nor do I see doing so as some forgone conclusion that we must do. That's about like saying that if North Korea showed up to tomorrow and demanded that we surrender the west coast we should give them just a little bit of California as a concession.
 
The NRA is not perfect. But understand that they are not here to make us happy. They are here to strike fear in the hearts of politicians. If the powers of this land are ready to blame video games, then so be it. And yes, that's saying that the 24 year olds are not the powerful who control this country. It's the old farts with money who pull the strings. So we get them on our sides, take their money, and destroy politicians that oppose us.
 
If the powers of this land are ready to blame video games, then so be it.
I was under the impression that the Bill of Rights covered more than just guns.
 
I was under the impression that the Bill of Rights covered more than just guns.

As I've already posted in another thread, the Supreme Court has already declared that video games qualify for 1st amendment protection in the 2011 case Brown v. Entertainment Merchants Association. Any attempts at restricting video games have repeatedly been declared unconstitutional by either SCOTUS or one of the lower courts.

They can try all they want, but we're on pretty solid ground on avoiding any restrictions on video games.
 
Solo said:
If the powers of this land are ready to blame video games, then so be it.
I was under the impression that the Bill of Rights covered more than just guns.

What if all 535 members of Congress unanimously decided that guns or mental health were not really issues, but that violence in video games was making people nutty? They might wag their fingers and give rousing speeches, but they would not actually do anything of substance because free speech is protected by the First Amendment and jealously guarded by the courts. Oh, sure, they might pass some laws to "do something" - maybe formalizing the industry's voluntary rating system or requiring 'modesty covers' like those on 'adult' magazines. But they really would not do squat.
 
I personally don't want an America where my kid's school was built to survive an infantry assault

Why not? If it doesn't put extra undue burden on the taxpayers, I'm all for a school building being literally bomb proof.

If our culture's that violent, maybe we should look at some stringent gun control.

Or maybe we should understand that violence and lawful gun ownership have nothing to do with one another. The only correlation between violent crime and available weapons is what the commonly used weapons were. In the USA, it's guns. In Britain, it's hands, feet and clubs. In Mexico, China and Japan, Knives. Some places it's even explosives.

The violent crime rates don't trend down overall when certain weapons are banned, they just trend down with that weapon and up with another.

He has literally done more for gun rights than Richard Nixon or Ronald Reagan have done, and he is even now stalling for time to defuse the worst of his loyalist's knee-jerk reactions.

Ooookay :scrutiny:

Whatever it is you're smoking, you should share it with your AHSA pals.
 
He lost me at "..that's why I voted for Obama...." After that, the rest of the article was of no consequence to me.

A gun owner voting for Obama is like a chicken voting for Col Sanders. Any gun owner who can't see Obama is not our friend, just isn't paying attention.
 
RocketMedic; this post is well written and you make several valid points, especially about the old state run mental health facilities; good on you for that. That being said, I would like to disagree with your ideas regarding "compromise" on gun laws.... gun laws do not do anything to prevent things like the Sandy Hook massacre, ok? It just isn't relevant. Gun rights people have a reputation for being stubborn, (NO COMPOMISE!!!:D) to the point of seeming unreasonable or even illogical, but the reason for that is simple... every attempt to compromise, every "we'll give up this, or concede that, if ya'll leave us alone on THIS..." agreement we made was reneged on. The anti's consistently refuse to stop; they always want more controls, more laws, more restrictions. It is simply not possible to reason with unreasonable people... if it was we wouldn't need a military.
As far as the POTUS, I suggest you check out Barry Eisler's blog, The Heart of The Matter, (sorry, don't know how to link to it), see what he has to say about it.
 
It saddens me to that you are so uncomfortable with law abiding gun owners and guns in general. It has nothing to do with need and everything to do with right. And you, nor the government can strip me of a right. It was not given by the government and they can not take it away.

CT has very strict gun laws already, and they did nothing to prevent this. So why do you think more laws will help? How will punishing millions of law abiding gun owners keep this from happening again? Evil and sick people do terrible things. You don't see the need for an AR, hey that's fine. I happen to love mine and shot it just yesterday.

Gun control has almost nothing to do with guns and almost everything to do with control.
 
There has all ready been so much "infringement" up to this point. We forget what was before so quickly.

NFA 1934 was "giving" something.

GCA 1968 was "giving" something.

Brady Bill '93 was "giving" something.

The current state of affairs is NOT the starting point; unrestricted Constitutional freedom is the starting point, and the current state of firearms rights represents 200 years of "giving" away pieces of that right.

What is being asked for today is a further erosion of that right away from what the Founders wanted.

People who write children's books understand this concept: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/If_You_Give_a_Mouse_a_Cookie
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top