The myth of compliance

[Old Dog]

From this morning's Detroit Free Press. A sad case indeed, but note the statement of the Pontiac PD spokesman. Michigan, by the way, is a shall-issue state.

He gave his truck; they took his life
Two arrested in Pontiac carjacking
July 6, 2005
BY FRANK WITSIL
FREE PRESS STAFF WRITER

David Bingham was never late.

In charge of shipping and receiving at Degele Manufacturing Inc. in Chesterfield Township, the 38-year-old Pontiac man made deliveries for the tool and die company. He started work at 6 a.m., and despite his long commute, he always punched in on time -- if not 10 to 15 minutes early, for 16 years, said vice president Mary Degele.

But on Tuesday, after spending a holiday weekend with his 14-year-old son and 10-year-old daughter, Bingham didn't show up for work. Police said two teenagers in a late-model Chevrolet Monte Carlo gunned him down at about 5 a.m. at a Pontiac gas station where Bingham often filled up his truck.

The carjackers stole his blue-and-silver 1993 Chevrolet pickup at gunpoint at a Sunoco gas station at 1144 N. Perry, then, a few moments later, as Bingham was calling 911, one of the teens returned to fatally shoot Bingham four times in the chest, said Pontiac Police Sgt. William Ware.

Bingham was taken to Royal Oak Beaumont Hospital, where he was pronounced dead at 5:59 a.m., Ware said.

Detectives later arrested a 17-year-old from Pontiac who they believe is the shooter. He is in police custody and could be charged today. Ware said police took the suspect into custody after dispatchers received a call at about 5:45 a.m., that a pickup matching the description of the one that was carjacked was in an accident on Clifford and Osmun.

The suspect had the key to the truck in his pocket. On the grass near him, police found a .38-caliber revolver with four spent casings in the cylinder, Ware said. Later Tuesday, detectives picked up a second suspect, who police say fled in the Monte Carlo.

Ware said he was baffled by why one teen returned to shoot Bingham.

"If someone approaches you with a gun, and you do what they ask you to do, they leave you alone," Ware said. "I haven't been able to figure out why the man returned."

There appears to be no link between Bingham and the teens other than the carjacking, Ware said.

 

[Double Maduro]

"If someone approaches you with a gun, and you do what they ask you to do, they leave you alone," Ware said.

Evidently, not always.

I hope the bgs get what they deserve.

DM

 

[oldfart]

"I hope the bgs get what they deserve."

They won't. They're "kids" and the system isn't capable of dealing realistically with them.

 

[No_Brakes23]

the system isn't capable of dealing realistically with them.

Well, if they draw steel on a CCW civvie or an LEO, they will most likely get their just reward.

 

[Zundfolge]

The shooter is 17 ... he'll likely be charged as an adult.


This story is going into my "THAT'S WHY" file ... when asked "Why do you carry a gun?" or the more insipid "How could you kill someone over [insert material object here]?" I'll give them this story (along with others).

 

[boofus]

Doesn't matter, he won't get his righteous punishment because European voters said so. The liberal supreme court affirmed the European laws.

May as well turn loose this underaged 'victim of society' so he can move on to bigger things like multiple homicides.

 

[1911 guy]

This Myth

is one of the most heinous things ever foisted upon people who look to our "leaders" for guidance. The best advice you can give anyone is to fight like hell from the word go and aim to send the bastard there.
We can also cite the sad story of my coworker Earl (real first name, I won't give his last) whose wife went to the local stop-n-rob late one night for canned mushroom soup of all things. She and the clerk were led into the cooler and shot.

 

[torpid]

"If someone approaches you with a gun, and you do what they ask you to do, they leave you alone"

Check out the BTK killer thread for a long and sobering rebuttal.

.

 

[thatguy]

1: If robbed and the robber leaves, don't stand there using a cell phone. Withdraw to cover in case they come back by.

2: Studies show that people who resist violent assualt are less likely to be injured or killed.

3: The two murderers should be executed by the next dawn... but they won't. If this is how they behave at 17, I hold very little (none) hope that they will ever be anything other than cold-blooded killers and a blight on society. The best we can hope for thanks to our criminal justice system is that they will be killed by drug dealers in a buy-gone-bad (misdemeanor murder).

4: This law abiding citizen should have been armed. If he had, even if he gave up the truck rather than risk a gunfight, the returning killer would have been in for a surprise. I would assume that any armed robber coming back intends to kill the witness.

 

[natedog]

Even if it was true that compliance led to a lower risk of bodily harm, fighting back is still the right thing to do.

 

[Henry Bowman]

This lesson came at a very high price. We should respect that and vow to learn from it.

"If someone approaches you with a gun, and you do what they ask you to do, they leave you alone"

Perhaps this began as an innocent myth. Now that it has been irrefutably disproven, to repeat it is an outright lie. To continue to believe it is folly.

 

[MechAg94]

what thatguy said.

 

[Pilgrim]

"If someone approaches you with a gun, and you do what they ask you to do, they leave you alone," Ware said.

I wonder what Sergeant Ware would do if a gunman thought he looked like Ned Beatty and he should 'squeal like a pig!".

Pilgrim

 

[Mad Man]

post # 420

"If someone approaches you with a gun, and you do what they ask you to do, they leave you alone," Ware said.

Does this include the police (who carry guns)?

 

[Rupestris]

1: If robbed and the robber leaves, don't stand there using a cell phone. Withdraw to cover in case they come back by.

Bingo! we have a winner!

Most gas stations in SE Michigan have some sort of convenience store attached. (The clerk may be behind bullet proof glass but that’s a different story).
Get inside where there are witnesses, cameras, etc. then call the police.

 

[critter]

Rehabilitation through reincarnation!

 

[Joejojoba111]

"(The clerk may be behind bullet proof glass but that’s a different story)."

That's probably what they tellt he clerk, but it's probably the minimum protection required to reduce their insurance rates, and the cheapest available. I would put no faith in 'bullet-proof glass' if I didn't know the life history of it. Far too many variables.

Just saying,

 

[Spreadfire Arms]

"If someone approaches you with a gun, and you do what they ask you to do, they leave you alone," Ware said.

i thought after 9/11 the sheeple mentality was gone...at least in airplanes. if you're a passenger on a hijacked aircraft, chances are, after 9/11, you're gonna kill the hijackers or die trying.

the same mentality ought to follow here. can you expect someone to just cooperate 100% with no guarantee that they will not be harmed if they are compliant?

i know for liability reasons, LE agencies always suggest you cooperate with the bad guy. but if you look at what that same agency is training their officers to do if other officers are taken hostage it is totally different.

 

[Henry Bowman]

i know for liability reasons, LE agencies always suggest you cooperate with the bad guy.

Of course, if you follow their advice and get dead, they will deny liability. Heads, I win; tails, you lose.

 

[RevDisk]

That's probably what they tellt he clerk, but it's probably the minimum protection required to reduce their insurance rates, and the cheapest available. I would put no faith in 'bullet-proof glass' if I didn't know the life history of it. Far too many variables.

Doesn't matter if it is properly installed, et al and all the variables are good. Squeeze bottle of gas, a match. They'll open the door every time. Sometimes you just have to think outside the box.

 

[M99M12]

Poor guy. SA rules, armed or not. How deep was his head in the sand. The guy who came back sure had a pair. "just do what they say" :banghead:

 

[Standing Wolf]

It was mean old society's fault.

 

[joab]

If someone approaches you with a gun, and you do what they ask you to do, they leave you alone," Ware said.

I figure if he was gonna leave me alone he wouldn't have approach me with a gun

 

[griz]

"If someone approaches you with a gun, and you do what they ask you to do, they leave you alone,"

It doesn't bother me that people make mistakes and are proven wrong. But to continue to offer that advice as true in the face of clear evidence to the contrary is not only irresponsible but insulting.

 

[JohnKSa]

"If someone approaches you with a gun, and you do what they ask you to do, they leave you alone," Ware said. "I haven't been able to figure out why the man returned."

Somebody's CONCEPT of reality doesn't jibe with reality. Which do you think is winning? Even when SHOWN the truth the guy sticks with what he has chosen to believe and is even willing to say that he doesn't understand why things happened the way they did while still "sticking to his story."