The Roommate did something dumb today!

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We are "leaning towards maturity", I don't think so!! What y:cuss: :cuss: ou did and what he did was stupid, moronic, and irresponsible! Grow up before someone get's hurt!!
 
He did nothing wrong, give it a break. The roomate is an idiot.

Son you do need weapon retention training.
 
Some good solutions

Several people have given excellent examples to resolve the problem, i.e. carrying concealed, and using a holster with a stop (catch) such as the police use. For me, I prefer a strapless holster, and so I carry concealed.

I will depart the conversation with these final thoughts. Regardless of what the laws in any give state hold, they are almost always open to interpretation by the LEOs who arrive on the scene. I prefer to seek a proactive solution on my own, rather than a defense position after-the-fact.

Doc2005
 
The roomie isn't "dumb."

The roomie _is_ "ignorant."

And I don't think it was handled all that well. Threatening someone is not a good course of action. However, _explaining_ that your training and reflexes, i.e., muscle memory, is such that if you feel someone trying to acquire your weapon, you may just react, is a completely different story.

Now everyone can PLEASE quit the BS macho posturing.
 
I think a lot of you are missing an important part of this equation. The roommate was criminally stupid, you don't grab someone else's firearm PERIOD. No argument there. But since it happened as it did the OP needs to sit down with that roomie or friend or whomever (and any others who are there) and explain -why- it is so stupid.

-That a gun owner cannot and will not loose control of a deadly weapon to anyone.

-That an untrained person shouldn't be handling a weapon (and by definition someone who'd grab a gun out of another persons holster IS untrained no matter what they think).

-That one careless action in a situation like this could easily result in a life altering circumstance (I refuse to call it an accident in this case) for one or more people involved.

-That weapon retention training could have gotten the roomie hurt by reflex.

Now if I know human reactions, somebody is gonna get upset and defensive in a conversation and try to turn the responsibility for this situation back on you with some variation of "well why were you wearing it in the first place". Don't let this throw you. Keep problem ownership correctly focused on the fact that it doesn't matter why you were open carrying, it matters that NOBODY EVER grabs someone else's sidearm without permission PERIOD.
 
ZeSpectre said:
I think a lot of you are missing an important part of this equation. The roommate was criminally stupid, you don't grab someone else's firearm PERIOD. No argument there. But since it happened as it did the OP needs to sit down with that roomie or friend or whomever (and any others who are there) and explain -why- it is so stupid.

-That a gun owner cannot and will not loose control of a deadly weapon to anyone.

-That an untrained person shouldn't be handling a weapon (and by definition someone who'd grab a gun out of another persons holster IS untrained no matter what they think).

-That one careless action in a situation like this could easily result in a life altering circumstance (I refuse to call it an accident in this case) for one or more people involved.

-That weapon retention training could have gotten the roomie hurt by reflex.

Now if I know human reactions, somebody is gonna get upset and defensive in a conversation and try to turn the responsibility for this situation back on you with some variation of "well why were you wearing it in the first place". Don't let this throw you. Keep problem ownership correctly focused on the fact that it doesn't matter why you were open carrying, it matters that NOBODY EVER grabs someone else's sidearm without permission PERIOD.
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+1
 
I wasn't the one washing dishes. I was talking to a third roommate who was doing them. I did not know who was behind me that was grabbing at my gun.

Last, I don’t think saying, “Do you want to die?!” has any value in a situation where you didn’t really need to kill anyone. Were you really going to shoot him?
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You would not use lethal force against someone fighting for control of your gun? The moment I knew someone was going for my gun, I automatically got into the mindset to prepare to defend myself. I maintained control of my gun. I turned and I identified what was going on/who my target was and I was ready to defend my life. I am glad it was my roommate. I am glad this was nonsensical horseplay and not some BG who came in through a window and had the balls to try and take on someone open carrying. As for the comment It was the first rebuke out of my mouth which I meant.

I think people are demonizing me for Open Carrying. I do not horseplay when I carry as I cannot afford to. I neither want to shoot someone, become egotistical and bold when I carry, or spend time in jail.

We are "leaning towards maturity", I don't think so!! What y ou did and what he did was stupid, moronic, and irresponsible! Grow up before someone get's hurt!!
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Please sir, if you are going to call me "stupid," "moronic," and "irresponsible" I ask that you tell me specifically what I did wrong or any of you for that matter. And yea, we "lean towards maturity." There are times when we goof off and don't act like the stiff 25 year olds we ought. You might even say we horseplay. But when it comes to firearms safety, I for one prefer not to mess around. This time my roommate made a bad call. I fully intend to have a chat with him and the other roommate about expectations.
 
My buddy tried that crap when i was at my house with my Glock. I head butted him, we got into an argument. But trust me when i say he wont do that agian. Are people crazy grabing a Glock, come on people no safety.
 
a shot in the femoral artery

can kill you very quickly.

horseplay with loaded Glocks?
I know a 7 year old with more sense and maturity then that.

Open carry in your house is supposed to be a great idea, you know exactly
where your gun is and if the door gets kicked in you do not have to fight your way to the gun safe.

As some one who has been the victim of a home invasion, complete with stab wounds, I always have a gun handy in my home.

Originally Posted by ZeSpectre
I think a lot of you are missing an important part of this equation. The roommate was criminally stupid, you don't grab someone else's firearm PERIOD. No argument there. But since it happened as it did the OP needs to sit down with that roomie or friend or whomever (and any others who are there) and explain -why- it is so stupid.

-That a gun owner cannot and will not loose control of a deadly weapon to anyone.

-That an untrained person shouldn't be handling a weapon (and by definition someone who'd grab a gun out of another persons holster IS untrained no matter what they think).

-That one careless action in a situation like this could easily result in a life altering circumstance (I refuse to call it an accident in this case) for one or more people involved.

-That weapon retention training could have gotten the roomie hurt by reflex.

Now if I know human reactions, somebody is gonna get upset and defensive in a conversation and try to turn the responsibility for this situation back on you with some variation of "well why were you wearing it in the first place". Don't let this throw you. Keep problem ownership correctly focused on the fact that it doesn't matter why you were open carrying, it matters that NOBODY EVER grabs someone else's sidearm without permission PERIOD.
Click to expand...
 
You would not use lethal force against someone fighting for control of your gun? The moment I knew someone was going for my gun, I automatically got into the mindset to prepare to defend myself. I maintained control of my gun. I turned and I identified what was going on/who my target was and I was ready to defend my life. I am glad it was my roommate. I am glad this was nonsensical horseplay and not some BG who came in through a window and had the balls to try and take on someone open carrying. As for the comment It was the first rebuke out of my mouth which I meant.
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Yes, I would use lethal force to defend against a disarm. Asking, "Do you want to die?!" after the fact is not something I would do.
 
Asking, "Do you want to die?!" after the fact is not something I would do.
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Well, chastising him for saying it isn't right either. The simple fact is that the roommate played with his life and didn't realise it. Vis a vis let him know that. It probably was a reactive statement anyway. I'm sure he explained that what his roommate did was stupid, although it should have been obvious afterward anyway.
 
He's a good roommate and so I'm not going to send him packing on this one. The threat of death was plenty for him, I believe.
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He made a mistake and your death threat was over-reacting. For all of you who advocate using deadly force against him, think again. If at any time the opposite party clearly withdraws their intent to continue, you are no longer justified in using any force against him. This has been covered by the USSC, sorry guys. Roomate stoped when confronted, force option is out the window.

My opinion, educate him instead of threatening him. If he is a good roomate/person, which you indicate, it will never happen again. People do stupid things sometimes without thinking, especially around people/objects they are really familiar with. I'm sure he can't explain why he did it and probably thinks it was very ignorant himself. His friendship with you probably clouded his judgement, he associated the action with you and not the weapon. It happens, anyone who says otherwise is full of it. Familiarity breeds mistakes. I believe, based on your story that this is one of them and is no different than neglecting to chamber check an "unloaded gun". You know better but your familiarity caused you to act before thinking.

Machismo BS isn't the way to handle it, despite the posturing here, and it isn't the most constructive. A few well chosen words about the dangers of such an action, not "I will kill you" but rather, "Do you realize what might have happened if I didn't realize it was you?" or "Do you realize that you could have caused a ND which could have hurt both of us?" will make him punish himself worse than you could ever do, if he is in fact the way you describe. If he is an idiot, then consider other options. I'm not condoning his "prank", which was not well thought out, but I'm not condoning your reaction either. There was, in my opinion, a better way to handle it, a rational way that didn't involve an empty death threat. Are you really going to kill him over it? Doubtful, so why use that as your means of educating him?
 
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You did nothing wrong. You felt someone try to disarm you and you countered that by stoping it from happening, I have a hard time seeing where people find him in the wrong.

He said the first words that came to mind, words that had he not realized it was his roommate or even worse been an actual attacker been very true words. Could he have worded them better? Probably. But were they to the point and lacked a bit of better wording due to his mindset at the time. Big whoop.

Oh thats right he was open carrying. God forbid someone exorcise their prefered method of carry :rolleyes:
 
Happened to me once on my way into work. Stopped at the deli to get a sandwich and the newspaper like I usually do. It's a hangout and a few old buddies from high school are usually in there. At the register, my wallet out and ready to pay when I feel the holster shifting. Hand clamped down on the gun, other hand grabbed the wrist, spun and just barely stopped my knee before it caught him in the stomach. Got the typical "what the he[ck], I was just kidding" comments until I pushed him towards the wall, and calmly, and loud enough for the others in the store to hear "If you value your life, never, ever, go for someones gun"

Never had a problem stopping in again and my buddy called later to apologize for a "bonehead" manuever. I think what it is is that some people just don't understand the magnitude of that simple action. To them it's like taking someones pen and moving it or hiding it
 
Lupinus +1

You did good Vis.

You should look at this as a training event.

You kept the gun. +1
You ID'ed the actor. +1
You used force appropriate to the circumstances. +1
You used words that COULD get you in some trouble in the outside world. -1.

It was a hot situation and once you ID'ed the person you let your emotions get the better of you. Words like that in a "social situation" could come back to haunt you. Learn to control your feelings Luke.

That said; I'm not sure I'd have been much nicer. We tend to let fly the tongue on those we know. I’m sure I would have had a LOOOOOONG string of things to say that would not have looked good to a jury. Something for me to think about.

Oh... and I carry open in my home. I'm too slow to make it to the gun safe if someone comes through the door. I'm also a lousy guesser.
 
"machismo"?

If anybody thinks that grabbing someone's gun from behind is "just a joke" I suggest you try playing that joke on a police officer.

He won't think it's funny.

You won't think it's funny either.

--Travis--
 
I had something similar happen in my own home. A (male) friend of my wife went grabbing for my gun from the rear (basically asking to see it) and I elbowed him in the celiac plexus, knocking the wind out of him. Needless to say, he'll never do that again.

I took him out to dinner to smoothe things over, explaining what a bad idea that is, and he felt pretty stupid afterwards.

It's always a good idea to practice retension excersizes of some type.
 
Did you say your roommate was 7 or 27? Don't get me wrong, you did absolutely nothing wrong. Your words may have been over the top, but you were talking with your emotions....What kind of moron trys to grab a glock out of a holster?
 
When I was your age I had two roommates and a cute little black pistol grip shotgun

Came home early one day and my normally locked door was open and I could hear joking and laughter coming from my room.

I heard one saying bang bang and something about Rambo
As I came into the room One room mate was holding the shotgun pointed at the other.
As he turned to me I grabbed the gun and baton smashed him hard in the chest with it, snapped the safety off and ejected the live round in the chamber.
He started to make a stuttering apology and I told him I had three more rounds ans he needed to leave now.
I moved out about a week later.

Your friend was simply being childish for a minute, mine were showing their disrespect for me and my property.

Those who have encouraged inflicting pain on the roommate, at least in Michigan, if you are in possession of a firearm at the time you commit a crime, it becomes and instant felony...i.e. assault.
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And what would the attempted strong arm theft of a firearm be?
Last, I don’t think saying, “Do you want to die?!” has any value in a situation where you didn’t really need to kill anyone. Were you really going to shoot him?
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I didn't read it as a threat of retaliatory violence but rather a "do you realize that you could killed doing that" warning. Can we get a clarification from the OP
Son you do need weapon retention training.
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If you read the post you will see that he instinctively reacted to the threat in a timely manner and maintained control of his firearm, why would you think that he needs retention training
 
The only thing you might have done wrong (and I'd be just as likely to do it) is saying anything to him. If it were a BG really going for your gun you don't owe him any words. Turn to a position where you can retain your gun and take up an offensive (not defensive) stance - draw your weak hand-carried knife if you have it - and make him fully aware of his choices: stop or die.

That's pretty much exactly what you did, only I don't think it's necessary to say anything to him. You'd already know his answer if he was a real attacker. Since he wasn't, it might have been better to wait until you were a little more calm to tell him why he made a potentially fatal mistake.

Again, I likely would have done the same thing. Unfortunately, words can be used against you in court, especially if your jury has a lot of bleeding hearts.
 
Lupinus +1

You did good Vis.

You should look at this as a training event.

You kept the gun. +1
You ID'ed the actor. +1
You used force appropriate to the circumstances. +1
You used words that COULD get you in some trouble in the outside world. -1.

It was a hot situation and once you ID'ed the person you let your emotions get the better of you. Words like that in a "social situation" could come back to haunt you. Learn to control your feelings Luke.

That said; I'm not sure I'd have been much nicer. We tend to let fly the tongue on those we know. I’m sure I would have had a LOOOOOONG string of things to say that would not have looked good to a jury. Something for me to think about.

Oh... and I carry open in my home. I'm too slow to make it to the gun safe if someone comes through the door. I'm also a lousy guesser.
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Yes Master Yoda.

Lupinus is right that they were the first words I could come up with. They were still phrased as a question rather than a statement, which makes it rhetorical to impose thought rather than a direct threat which means it was intended to convey more what Mr. Anderson said here: "If you value your life, never, ever, go for someones gun." It is quite a serious matter. I stopped force when he stopped and lost his smile.

That doesn't mean the question is without the implication of escalation on my part, however, and can see how it was not the best choice of words and can be viewed negatively. I shall try and reform myself and am confident that it will aid my legal defense should I ever have to give an account for my actions, God forbid.

I'm glad examples and explanations have been given as asked and I'm sorry if I did not make myself crystal. That being said, I think I did nothing wrong, save that I could tame the tongue a bit more.
 
Just make sure your roommate understands how this little stunt could have easily turned into a fatal tragedy.

I am sure if you do a new search you can find some fatalities associated with horseplay & firearms.

I remember a case only a month or 2 ago - in Milwaukee I think, where a girl killed her sister. The girls excuse I was just pointing the gun at her and playing I didn't know it was loaded. Now her sisters dead and her life and probably the families is ruined.

In your case your roommate wouldn't be able to say I didn't know it was loaded.

Just make sure he understands the gavity of what he attempted to do - someone could easily have been shot and killed.
 
Now if I know human reactions, somebody is gonna get upset and defensive in a conversation and try to turn the responsibility for this situation back on you with some variation of "well why were you wearing it in the first place". Don't let this throw you. Keep problem ownership correctly focused on the fact that it doesn't matter why you were open carrying, it matters that NOBODY EVER grabs someone else's sidearm without permission PERIOD.
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Hell, several participants in this thread have tried to pin the blame on the OP for open carrying. Yeah, yeah, "concealed means concealed," but this wasn't the regional shopping mall, this was the kitchen of his own apartment, with nobody present but two roommates who (presumeably) already know that he carries. So what good does concealment do? I carry concealed when I'm "out and about," but my holster is an OWB and at home I don't necessary feel the need to wear a jacket or a vest to cover it.

Sorry, folks, I for one feel that the only mistake the OP made was in his choice of roommates. (And possibly in his choice of firearms, but that's for another day and another discussion.)
 
I think a lot of people are splitting hairs here. About the only thing that could be found wrong with the OP's action is a poor choice of word that could be and appears to have been misconstrued.

When I read that he said "Do you want to die!", I didn't take it that he said it as a threat, but more along the lines of a knee-jerk reaction on how dangerous his roommate's action was. It didn't sound like a threat at all, but more of an admonishment.

I can however see how those words can be taken out of context, and used against him.
 
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