The search for accurate match loads for 9mm continues...

[Trey Veston]

RMR 9mm 124 MPR JHP shoots well for me with 4.4 of WSF @ 1.07 makes minor PF with a little to spare 128-130 out of a 5" 9mm 1911.
Soft shooting.
All guns are different but my 9s seem to prefer 124/124 gr bullets.

If you are close to RMR I would try the MPRs or the new 124gr FNFMJs
both shoot well for me. (and seemed to work well for Walkalong also!)
Talk Jake into giving you some samples

I just bought 100 of the 124gr MPR JHPs initially, and have probably about 20 left. Will have to try that load out! Yeah, I was hoping that my Glock would prefer the heavier stuff, but it just doesn't. 115s and 124s only. Things really start to open up at 25yds the heavier the bullet.

Any thoughts about using cast (yes cast) in your Glock?

No, but only because lead is so hard to come by around here and the cost savings aren't much. I don't even cast for 10mm hardly anymore. Cast up a bunch of 190gr hard cast boolits for woods carry and I'm good to go. Still do it for .45 Colt for the same reason; hard-hitting hardcast loads are my preferred round for woods carry. Either that or the Hornady XTP.

 

[vaalpens]

Any of the RMR in-house bullets should be accurate. For me a Power Pistol load of 5.6 gr always provides the best precision. Following is my best grouping using the RMR 124gr FMJ FN bullet, tested at 15 yards using a rest. Gun used is a SIG SP2022, 3.9" barrel:


I do have a better group at 15 yards, but it was using the Xtreme 124gr FP bullet. I also used 5.6gr of Power Pistol. Tested at 15 yards using a rest. Gun used is a SIG SP2022, 3.9" barrel:


Please not that the scope I used on my SIG SP2022 3.9" barrel, was not zeroed. I was testing precision (grouping), not accuracy (POI).

 

[Trey Veston]

RMR 9mm 124 MPR JHP shoots well for me with 4.4 of WSF @ 1.07 makes minor PF with a little to spare 128-130 out of a 5" 9mm 1911.

Just loaded up ten of the RMRs using your recipe, and another ten using the Hornday 124gr XTPs with the same powder charge. Both plunked just fine at 1.07", which is good since the new Gen 5 Glocks have shallow throats. Will hopefully get to the range tomorrow...

 

[Dudedog]

Curious to see how it works out for you.
All guns are different of course, but hopefully it will work well.
If you have the bullets you might want to load 4.6, 4.6 and 5 and see how they are. (MAX at a longer OAL is 5.3, I have loaded 5 with no pressure signs in my guns, but those are my gun(s) )
Then try some .1 apart if say 4.6 works better try 4.5 and 4.7.
Sometimes a little bit can make a difference. (and other times it doesn't)

 

[Riccochet]

1.070" is pretty short COL for 124gr projectile.

 

[Trey Veston]

1.070" is pretty short COL for 124gr projectile.

Yeah. Safe with the charge amounts, though. I'm pretty nervous with that short throat working up defense loads, however.

 

[Soupy44]

Check out the Bullseye List forum. The ammunition section has pet loads from lots of top bullseye shooters. The pet loads sticky has some 9 mm loads listed. There is a separate sticky for 9mm hardball loads (jacketed ammo required for that for those unfamiliar with Bullseye)

http://www.bullseyeforum.net/f13-ammunition-discussion

 

[Dudedog]

Don't have any 9mm RNs to measure at the moment but the MPR is sort of like and RN with it's nose cut off.
I measured a MPR .558, a 124gr XTP .573 and a 124/125? gr Gold Dot .535
1.07 is a little short with the MPR but not as short as it might seem.
I can load them longer for some of my pistols, but to keep all of them happy I use 1.07-1.08.
I have heard new Glocks need them around 1.07 and CZs even shorter.
S+B SP, mixed range brass, charges as thrown after setting measure
String: 3
Date: 10/29/2017
Time: 10:59:15 AM
Grains: 124
Hi Vel: 1053
Low Vel: 1011
Ave Vel: 1030
Ext Spread: 42
Std Dev: 15
RMR 124 MPR JHP 4.4gr WSF 1.07 Sig P226
Velocity Power Factor Ft/Lbs
1031 127.844 292.645
1031 127.844 292.645
1011 125.364 281.401
1024 126.976 288.684
1053 130.572 305.267

5" 9mm 1911
S+B SP, mixed range brass, charges as thrown,
Note: Testing 1.065 for someone
String: 1
Date: 9/17/2017
Time: 11:52:56 AM
Grains: 124
Hi Vel: 1068
Low Vel: 1040
Ave Vel: 1055
Ext Spread: 28
Std Dev: 10
RMR MPR 124JHP 4.4gr WSF 1.065
Velocity Power Factor Ft/Lbs
1058 131.192 308.173
1050 130.2 303.53
1059 131.316 308.756
1040 128.96 297.776
1068 132.432 314.026
These were a little faster, longer barrel, slightly shorter OAL

Hodgdon WSF data with an RN
125 FMJ Winchester WSF 0.355 1.16 4.7 1015 27,700 PSI 5.3 1115 32,700 PSI

 

[1KPerDay]

1.070" is pretty short COL for 124gr projectile.

Not for JHPs, really.

 

[lordpaxman]

RMR bullets are made locally and I compete with the owner in GSSF, so I try to use his stuff.

So when you're shooting with the owner, can you ask him a question for me? I load a LOT of RMR FP MW (MatchWinner)…. but, I've yet to win a match - what the hey???

Anybody have any combos in 9mm that are giving great accuracy?

I can't say my loads will be accurate in your gun, but, given your set of powders and RMR bullets:

P226 data:
124gr RMR FP MW, 1.120 COL, 4.1gr Titegroup, Vel Avg 1052
147gr RMR FP MW, 1.120 COL, 3.3gr Titegroup, Vel Avg 867

124gr RMR FP MW, 1.120 COL, 4.8gr WSF, Vel Avg 1053
147gr RMR FP MW, 1.120 COL, 3.9gr WSF, Vel Avg 902

I do run these in my G43 for fun, but they're a bit slower. They probably wouldn't pass a chrono stage for 125 PF but if you're doing GSSF I don't believe that matters. The WSF loads are softer than the TG, at least to me. The TG do group a tad better, but, run the timer radiation hits, either work as well.

 

[PO2Hammer]

I load them as long as my gun will allow, as long as still have half the bearing surface in the case.
I load the 124/125 HAP/JHP to 1.090" for my 9mm 1911. They plunk fine, they shoot great at 50 yards and the longer OAL helps fill the larger than normal magazine.

I like to think they feed better in a 1911 when loaded long.

 

[Dudedog]

Need about 1010 with a 124 to make PF, about 855 with a 147, but that is just making 125 PF no wiggle room.

 

[Trey Veston]

So when you're shooting with the owner, can you ask him a question for me? I load a LOT of RMR FP MW (MatchWinner)…. but, I've yet to win a match - what the hey???

LOL! I told him at one of the matches that I liked the random doodles/smiley faces I get on my invoices. He said his daughter is the one that does that. I jokingly asked if she was single. Didn't go over so well... lol!

 

[Trey Veston]

Back to the range today for about three hours of shooting 10 different recipes and around 200 rounds at 25yds.

Results were nothing if not consistently inconsistent...

2" at 25yds was the benchmark, with 1.5" the ultimate goal. A few loads did 2", none did better than that. But then those same loads gave awful groups later. All bullet weights would do 2" in one flavor, then 5" in another. Powder types were all over the place as far as good groups.

Really, really frustrating due to complete inconsistency of results.

Might have to shorten the distance to eliminate more interference from my eyes and booger hook.



Some of the frustrating results...

147gr XTPs were all over the place from great to horrible...









Really wanted the RMR 124gr JHPs to do well, but they were usually pretty bad with a couple of exceptions, of course...

 

[Trey Veston]

The other bullet I really wanted to do well was the RMR 115gr RN that I can get really cheap. But it was mediocre...





And tried the 124gr XTPs. One was a great group, then next five were awful.





I still have some 115gr Hornady XTPs to try and will see if I can see which powder tends to deliver better groups, but so far it's all over the place. I also bought a couple of more boxes of commercial ammo to see if it performs.

At this point, nothing really substantially and consistently outperforms the cheap Remington UMC 115gr JHPs from WalMart. So really not much point in reloading for 9mm considering the cost vs. gains with these results.

 

[Dudedog]

I like to test freehand so I know what I can expect, but I like to use a rest as well.
Are you using a rest? If not might be worth a try.

Results were nothing if not consistently inconsistent...

Assuming the ammo is put together right, and the gun is ok, the inconsistent is most likely the shooter. (I know I have been there myself)
If you get a good group with one load, say 4.6gr WSF and the XTP, you should be able to repeat it or come close.
Maybe not as good but usually things don't go from good to poop. (assuming the gun is ok and the shooter does his/her part)

 

[fxvr5]

I think the bottom line is that gun doesn't shoot very well - certainly not with the ammo you've tried. A tried-and-true bullet combination would be the 115 XTP and a stiff charge of Power Pistol. Another good powder in 9mm is A#7, but try the Power Pistol first.

If you really want to test your gun's accuracy, shoot 25 shots into one group. 5-shot groups, especially the occasional small group, can be very misleading. Any gun will shoot the occasional small 5-shot group by chance. It's all comes down to probability. But a 25-shot group will tell you what shoots CONSISTENTLY more so than a 5-shot group. And what good is it knowing that load X will shoot an occasional 5-shot group into 1.5" when the other 5-shot groups with that same ammo are 4"? See? The occasional small 5-shot group doesn't have any real value and is a form of sampling bias. If you only pay attention to the smallest groups you miss the big picture of how that gun really shoots that ammo.

 

[fxvr5]

Group size with the same ammo can be 3- or 4- or 5-fold different, especially with 5-shot groups. I shoot tons of ammo from guns in a Ransom Rest, and even then there can be more than a 3-fold difference in 5-shot group size with the exact same ammo. Inconsistency is normal with 5-shot groups because it's such a small sample size. That's why more shots in one group is a better way to test accuracy. I've seen a 3-fold difference in group size when shooting 15-shot groups with the same ammo (in the Ransom Rest). Let me just repeat this: small groups happen by chance.

 

[HB]

I had a ton of factory second Sierra 125 (125?)gr JHP that shot very well over a charge of power pistol. I would look at any decent JHP.

Honestly if your time is limited, i would give up on the load development. You will shoot WAY better with 2 hours of dry fire than with 2 hours of loading 9mm on a single stage. I understand the sentiment though.

 

[kidneyboy]

Looking at the groups you posted yesterday there are definitely some loads I would be trying again and then do a little ladder testing around those loads. The 115gr RMR with W231 in particular. The horizontal stringing in that target may be shooter induced.
If you aren't shooting from a rest you may want to give that a try to take as much of you out of the equation as possible.

 

[kidneyboy]

Trey, are you ladder testing these or just trying random recipes that have worked for other people?

 

[Blue68f100]

Are you using mixed head stamps, brass? I always use the same head stamp when I test. Once I find a load I do test it with mixed just to see how much difference/spread I will have.

When was the last time you cleaned the barrel real good? Also have you tested your neck tension, to make sure it's not changing your OAL during shooting.

 

[forrest r]

If it was me, I'd start over and be taking a hard look at everything. Accuracy ='s consistency

The 1st thing I'd do is make up 2 different 100 round test loads and not worry about accuracy. Rather use a chronograph and 2 firearms shooting 50 rounds of each load thru both firearms and comparing the sd's & es's of both firearms. If they both are comparable then you can move forward knowing it's not a mechanical issue. While you're at it measure 40 or 50 rounds for oal's from each of the 2 batches of test loads. Too much variation in the oal's will turn the best loads into dirt clod killers @ 10 paces/blammo ammo. If the oal's are consistent and the sd's/es's check out then it's time to move to the bullets diameter. Measure 20 bullets and the load them/crimp them and then pull them and re-measure their diameters. There should be no changes in diameter. Lastly look at the cases your using. Measure the fired cases at the mouth of the case and at the web of the case. Then measure your reloads. Too much difference in those #'s and your cases are going side to side in the chamber destroying accuracy. Can't even begin to tell you how many times I've seen posted on the internet "the 9m headspaces on the case mouth".
Reality, 2 cases with a 2/1000th's crimp (.378") and a 15/1000th's crimp. As you can see the 15/1000th's crimp shortened the case length 6/1000th's.


2/1000th's crimp in a bbl

15/1000th's crimp in the same bbl.


A case that is not sized too small (rattle around in the chamber) with a bullet that matches the throat and a oal that allows play +/- 5/1000th's in the oal variation from reloading will result in groups like these

or 50yd 10-shot groups like these


9mm's just aren't that hard to reload. Heck back in the 90's we were fitting 6" 9mm bbl.'s in our 38super raceguns an using lyman 358311 158gr bullets in them. FUN/FUN/FUN
It's more than most likely something simple that's being over looked. Back to basics and re-look at everything

 

[lordpaxman]

I almost hate to reload for 9mm since factory Remington UMC 115gr JHPs are giving me 2.5" groups at 25yds

You know the gun is capable. This leaves three possibilities:
1)The shooter
2)The reloads
3)The targets

Let’s presume the targets are holding still so realistically that leaves the first two.

I’ve had this exact problem of inconsistent results. In my case it was I and I alone, and I shoot from a cheap plastic rest.

Bench rest to reduce the 1st problem, repeat with your UMC ammo to insure you’re still in the 2.5” zone. Then you can concentrate on the second, which it might be.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Wow, way too much time being invested in 9mm ammo. Unless this was for a Bullseye competition I would think it's high time well spent. This is all IMO of course.