The ubiquitous "help me pick my next" thread

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braindead0

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Both my wife and I shoot IDPA wheelgun class, got several revos and a Makarov in .380, Mk II 22/45 and a (I didn't buy it..was father in laws) Llama 9mm 1911 clone. Plenty of firing experience with DA/SA and SAO.. very litte with safe action, but I could manage.

As soon as I sell my suzuki-bego (Cavalcade touring bike), we'll be in the market for semi's. Wife's already fallen in love with the Kahr k9 so that's easy.

My quandary, I want it all but I can't have it...

So, my 'requirements' in order of importance:

1 - Must be legit for IDPA (not comp'd, no race guns ;-)
2 - Medium size at the smallest, I like the feel of my Makarov with peirce grips..but my meathooks probably couldn't handle a really compact auto.
3 - DA/SA, not really interested in SAO or DAO. Will certainly consider Safe Action pistols
4 - prefer something fairly cheap to shoot, I'd imagine 9mm is the easiest to get cheap ammo for. I probably wouldn't be loading for IDPA use as I hate chasing brass around.

Some preferences (in no particular order):

I like the Witness with the ability to swap out barrel/slide and have multi ammo gun. It would be nice to shoot IDPA with 9mm and be able to load up with .45/10mm or other for SD.

It would be nice to be able to get full-capacity magazines...

Probably smaller than a full-size 1911, it would be nice to have another relatively easy to conceal pistol. OTOH: if the list of features is really good...I'd certainly go full-size.

I'd like to keep price in the sub $600 range, but I could certainly go up to $1000 or so..if necessary ;-)

Any suggestions?

Feel free to say "you crazy, too many details" ;-)
 
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I recommend the HK USP or USPc line in the caliber of your preference. Second on the list would be the Walther P99.
 
The large frame (.45/10mm) Witnesses don't take preban 9mm mags when you get the 9mm conversion, so it's not going to do both.

The Witness is a good gun. My .45 was quite accurate. $300 to $350.

CZ-75B or BD the other obvious choice. Cheap, reliable, accurate, preban mags abound. $350.

Along the same lines, a Baby Eagle 9mm. Better ergonomics than either, quality about the same. $300 to $350.

Sig 228. They can be found new for around $600, hicaps by Mecgar are not SUPER pricey. Really excellent trigger.

USP9F. Little recoil, $60 hicaps, tough design. Buy a used one to keep costs down. DA trigger not great, but still workable. $550 used, with 10 round mags.

Walther P99 or SW99. The SW version gets a lot of criticism, but is even cheaper. Both seem nice, light DA triggers. Hicaps outrageous. $400 to $550.

Beretta or Taurus 92. Not my favorites, but have decent and improvable DA trigger pulls. Plenty of Hicaps. The Taurus is both cheaper AND has a Cocked and Locked option. If you want to spend the big bucks on the Beretta, I suggest the tougher Brigadier model, preferably with the G lever (decock only). $300 (used) to $550.

Add $50 to all estimates if in Cali.
 
Thanks, is the Baby Eagle gas operated like it's big brother? Just curious, that would probably mean a bit more cleaning.

As far as the Witness 9mm 'conversion', would it just mean that I would be limited to 'crippled' magazines in 9mm? That wouldn't be so bad, if I went that route I'd probably use .45 for SD purposes and 9mm for IDPA.

Thanks guys, some good ideas here.
 
CZ75 for sure. Low bore axis, great reliablity, cheap hi caps can be used as DA/SA or SAO.

I dont think the HK is a good gun for your purposes. Here's why
HIGH bore axis, Way too expensive for what you get. Crappy trigger pull. If it breaks good luck getting it fixed in a reasonable amount of time.

The Walther/Smith99 is a pretty good gun but your stuck with 3 different trigger pulls unless you get the DAO or quick action version. I know the SW99 takes alot of hits, but it really isnt a bad gun.

If your wife likes the Kahr guns, why not try the Kahr T9s?
 
Browning Hi Power in 9MM or a CZ-75 PCR. Both accurate, reliable and concealable. The CZ is a bit more concealable as it is a compact/lightened version of the venerable CZ-75.
 
mattk: Wanna loan us a T9 to try out ;-). She liked the K9.. a lot (actually I think it was an MK9).

Here's another thought, which ones can I shoot lead in? As an avid reloader, I'll certainly want to. I noticed the Kahr has polygonal rifling...uhg.
 
Thanks, is the Baby Eagle gas operated like it's big brother? Just curious, that would probably mean a bit more cleaning.
Click to expand...
The Baby Eagle is a CZ-75 clone, not a smaller Desert Eagle. The slide is shaped similarly to the Desert Eagle, and the safety is slide mounted, not frame mounted (as in the CZ-75.
 
Hmm, baby eagle.. Poly rifling as well...

Do all polygon rifled barrels require jacketed bullets only? Or is that just glock that says no lead...
 
Seriously I'd look at the Browning Hi-Power, its not as big as a 1911, hi caps have been in production since 1935 and are easy to find. Makes a good IDPA gun too.
 
Braindead,

this sounds like a good reason for a THR get together so you can try out everyone's autos and find what you like. Definately got to make sure hksw comes, he's got two of everything.
 
Polygonal bores: Desert Eagle, Baby Eagle, nearly every HK pistol, Kahr, Springfield Omega/Peter Stahl and Glock (kinda). I've had most of these guns.

The lead issue was never raised until the Glock. The Glock bore is different than any of the others in profile and leading may just be a Glock thing.

I have never heard anything conclusive on this. As I have largely 9mms, I likely never will worry about it. But I do prefer the polygon for cleaning, durability and, of course, style.

The Baby is a neat and different way of going if you like the basics of the CZ design. Mine had the least muzzle rise of any gun I had owned to that point. Bomb proof construction.
 
this sounds like a good reason for a THR get together so you can try out everyone's autos and find what you like. Definately got to make sure hksw comes, he's got two of everything
Click to expand...

Hehe, I like that Idea... anybody for a Northeast Ohio get together? ;-)

My wife took a class on semi-autos, where she got to shoot a lot of different pistols. Glocks, 1911's, Berettas, Kahr, and a bunch of others. The Kahr K9 just seemed to fit her hand very well, and it would be a better choice for CCW (for her at least) than her 4" tracker.

Thanks for the info on ploy rifling as well, I know that the 'jury is still out' on lead in Glocks, some people use it all the time..some say replace the barrel...some say it'll blow up the gun..

You'd think this was science and not science fiction :banghead: :D
 
Sorry I dont have a T9 but I would love to shoot one.
Only reason I didnt suggest the BHP is Braindead stated he wasnt really interested in SAO guns.
 
As 90 percent of my shooting is DA revolvers, I've come to the conclusion that DA/SA autos are very nice... I love my Makarov's trigger (after I did a job on it)... and for me it's simpler to keep to one style rather than having to get used to cocked and locked for one gun...hammer down for another..etc..

One thing I'd be tempted to go with, if it wasn't so expensive. My buddy has a squeeze cocker, I think it's an HK??? He's kinda miffed that the LEO force he works for won't let him carry it...but it sounds interesting. But, if I remember correctly...those baby's are very expensive..
 
There are few pistols that "do it all" as well as the HK squeeze cocker, the P7. The improvement in my shooting at IDPA was immediate and obvious when I started using a P7M8. Unfortunately, prices keep going up and you will likely have to spend $900 for a nice used one (I got a minty one for $700 4 years ago.)

One of the other P7 shooters at my old club was a woman, but my wife doesn't like the cocker - she's fussy.

It really is a GREAT gun (I think the design addresses everything from reliability to accuacy and safety), but is an investment. But if you take to the design, as many of us do, it will be a one time purchase. I left it out of my initial list just do to the price.

Try your friend's.
 
Yeah, that's the one..the P7...I'd try my friends...but he's in California.. I'm in Ohio ;-).. Of course, he's always trading and buying and selling guns...maybe one day he'll be tired of it and I can buy it cheap.

I still find myself partial to the Witness, just due to the fact that I could shoot 9mm for IDPA, and .45 for practice and carry (and IDPA occasionally I suppose)..heck maybe another caliber or two as well...
 
I just thought of something that might narrow the field down a bit, I hate straight up ejection... ie: I'd prefer if the pistol ejected up and to the right, so I can hang a tarp to catch the brass.
 
A few more targeted questions.... here's the list of current suggestions (thanks guys!)

HK USP/UPSc
Walther P99
Witness
CZ 75
Baby Eagle
BHP

In regards to the witness, I believe to be able to change slide/barrel from 9mm to .45 (or perhaps .40...or both) I'd need the full-size steel frame?

How do the above compare for concealabity / size? Seems to me they are about the same?

Thanks, this is really helping me narrow down my search.
 
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