The Unloaded Gun
- Thread starter Kleanbore
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Carl N. Brown
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For that kind of experience for the John Wick movie, the actor was with an actual trainer on an actual shooting range.
eyeshot
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eyeshot
Member
Case law is just a published opinion based on a related case. A judge can use case law to bolster his judgement or not. His call.
At the most, Baldwin the actor, would/ could be charged with accidental discharge. IMO.
I dropped the negligent. The article I read referenced negligent AD so I stuck it in there as gospel.
At the most, Baldwin the actor, would/ could be charged with accidental discharge. IMO.
I dropped the negligent. The article I read referenced negligent AD so I stuck it in there as gospel.
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How would it make sense to charge the shooter with negligent discharge but with no responsibility for the result of that discharge?
If a driver ran over and killed a pedestrian due to distraction while texting, would the charge likely be inattentive driving or negligent homicide?
I think inattentive driving would apply if the driver had only run over a mailbox , but …
It is a higher court ruling that stands as law until it is overturned by a higher court or revisited in later appellate case.
Trial courts are bound by governing case law.
Negligence and accidents are two entirely different things. There is no liability for an accident. In NM, death resulting from the negligent discharge of a firearm is manslaughter.
Baldwin was the last man in the chain
Baldwin was the last man to ignore every one of the 4 Rules
Baldwin pointed the gun at a human being
Baldwin pulled the trigger.
All the others in the chain can be charged with/sued for... criminal/civil negligence.
Baldwin, however, is the ONLY one who can be charged with actual involuntary manslaughter -- 4th degree felony.
And rightly so ... if circumstances bear out in fact what is slowly being revealed in witness statements
eyeshot
Member
↑
Case law is just a published opinion based on a related case.
It is a higher court ruling that stands as law until it is overturned by a higher court or revisited in later appellate case.
↑
A judge can use case law to bolster his judgement or not. His call.
Trial courts are bound by governing case law.
most, Baldwin the actor, would/ could be charged with negligent accidental discharge
Negligence and accidents are two entirely different things. There is no liability for an accident. In NM, death resulting from the negligent discharge of a firearm is manslaughter.
Well . . I have to admit that I was wrong about everything I posted with regard to our judicial system. I've spent the last few hours confirming my ignorance. Pretty interesting reading though.
So, with my small ballcap in hand, I will remove myself from commenting on things I know little about. Well for this thread anyways.
Case law is just a published opinion based on a related case.
It is a higher court ruling that stands as law until it is overturned by a higher court or revisited in later appellate case.
↑
A judge can use case law to bolster his judgement or not. His call.
Trial courts are bound by governing case law.
most, Baldwin the actor, would/ could be charged with negligent accidental discharge
Negligence and accidents are two entirely different things. There is no liability for an accident. In NM, death resulting from the negligent discharge of a firearm is manslaughter.
Well . . I have to admit that I was wrong about everything I posted with regard to our judicial system. I've spent the last few hours confirming my ignorance. Pretty interesting reading though.
So, with my small ballcap in hand, I will remove myself from commenting on things I know little about. Well for this thread anyways.
Zounds
! ! ! ...Why should you be different ?If everyone did that, the Board would slow to a crawl.
When you think about it, how many professions are there that accept the pointing of a firearm at another person? Military / police (or something closely related), and even then, you know it’s most likely a lethal proposition, if you squeeze the trigger. Think of all the safety protocols we use, that those professions use, etc. Now enter Hollywood. The pointing of a firearm at another person and then, squeezing the trigger is done all the time.
When you think about it, it’s pretty wild. Prime for some NRA safety courses.
When you think about it, it’s pretty wild. Prime for some NRA safety courses.
In the time it takes to give just one anti American award acceptance speech, they could be taught how not to kill their co workers.
Thunderchicken
Member
I am modestly surprised that a person that is involved in safely handling firearms for a movie thinks that a revolver has a “drum” that spins. It seems like it is a good idea if you don’t know your hind end from a teakettle to not make statements to reporters. That’s assuming someone really said what the report quotes them as saying… I suspect there is a lot of frantic quote-shoveling to fill the “news hole.”
desmobob
Member
I never thought much about this until I was interviewed for a story by a Boston Globe reporter when I was on an annual saltwater fly fishing trip on Cape Cod several years ago. Apparently, some seals had been found dead in the Chatham area from gunshot wounds -- deer rifle type. Locals suspected it was fishermen (commercial fishermen, whose income depended on the local fishery that the seals were feared to be affecting).
Well, the brilliant reporter sent down from Boston interviewed me, a fly fisherman, and started with a slightly accusing tone. I felt like asking her if she thought the average fly fisherman brought his deer rifle along with him from out of state on fishing vacations, but refrained and let her ask the questions, hoping to get her on the right track.
The interview seemed to go well and I was eager to pick up a copy of the Globe the next morning. I was appalled when I read the story. My answers to her questions were chopped apart and used in answers to other questions, words in my quotes were changed and altered the point I was making, etc., etc. I was now embarrassed that my buddies would be reading the story and thinking I actually said this stuff!
Bottom line is, this is a major newspaper, not some small-town rag. I served as a Journalist in the Navy and was editor of the base paper. I have a decent understanding of news writing. I don't have the slightest doubt this reporter's story would have received a failing grade if submitted during the basic journalism coursework at the military's Defense Information School that I attended.
That incident shook my faith in the major newspapers. And since then, they've continued to give me reasons to lose more faith.
Agreed re not trusting news sources.
Another example: some years back I took interest in a public meeting held to discuss the proposed expansion of our local airport. I was employed in a corporate flight department at that airport. I asked my employer if he was ok with my attendance; I was told that I was free to attend as a private citizen - but with NO authorization as a representative of my employer. I agreed.
I was questioned by a local press rep who asked if I worked on the airport. I said yes , but was attending as a private citizen, and I got the reporter to repeat back to me that I was not a representative of anyone but myself , had no authority outside of my personal opinion.
The next day the local rag printed my statements , sourced as (my full name) REPRESENTING LOCAL HIGH PROFILE XYZ CORPORATION.
Multiple calls to the reporter went unanswered.
Another example: some years back I took interest in a public meeting held to discuss the proposed expansion of our local airport. I was employed in a corporate flight department at that airport. I asked my employer if he was ok with my attendance; I was told that I was free to attend as a private citizen - but with NO authorization as a representative of my employer. I agreed.
I was questioned by a local press rep who asked if I worked on the airport. I said yes , but was attending as a private citizen, and I got the reporter to repeat back to me that I was not a representative of anyone but myself , had no authority outside of my personal opinion.
The next day the local rag printed my statements , sourced as (my full name) REPRESENTING LOCAL HIGH PROFILE XYZ CORPORATION.
Multiple calls to the reporter went unanswered.
BobABQ
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I have seen that but who took it out of the weapons storage? Who had access to the firearm? Did someone else handle it between coming out of the storage and prior to the AD taking it off of the cart. There is so much that seems to have gone wrong. Alex Baldwin the actor is probably not guilty of anything other than trusting someone else, but Alex Baldwin the Producer is looking at several lawsuits. That is entirely speculation on my part.
BobABQ
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I don’t know the NM Law but do live in NM and I suspect Alex Baldwin will probably not be criminally charged. I say this because we really like having the movie industry here and I suspect criminal charges will have a chilling effect on the movie doing movies here. I suspect the governor and district attorney have to will have a private meeting over this. I believe politics, the back door kind will come into effect.
I may be wayyyy off base here but I will be surprised if we see Alex Baldwin criminally charged.
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He may not be charged, but his actions and the results fall under the definition of involuntary manslaughter in New Mexico.
BobABQ
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I don’t dispute your point but I will be surprised if he is criminally charged.
The Last Outlaw
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Even if he is charged, he won't be found guilty. Too much money for the state to lose if they scare the movie people away, IMO.
Ranger Rog
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Gun safety in a nut shell......Paladin, Have Gun Will Travel......
Another unloaded gun story.....
A widow brought a box of military pistols that had belonged to her late husband to a friend to see about getting them sold. The man randomly chose a Luger from the box, raised it, and pulled the rigger.
A shot went through the window glass, passed through the back yard next door, and into a kitchen on the other side. It struck a full orange juice glass that was being raised. No one was injured.
Either the man who fired the gun or the man with the glass knew a guy at the gun store and related the story.
We all discussed the need to check every gun personally.
A widow brought a box of military pistols that had belonged to her late husband to a friend to see about getting them sold. The man randomly chose a Luger from the box, raised it, and pulled the rigger.
A shot went through the window glass, passed through the back yard next door, and into a kitchen on the other side. It struck a full orange juice glass that was being raised. No one was injured.
Either the man who fired the gun or the man with the glass knew a guy at the gun store and related the story.
We all discussed the need to check every gun personally.
Krogen
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I get it! If I pick up a drill motor or a squirt bottle of something like Windex, my index finger goes straight out. Muscle memory. Non-shooters have looked at me funny. Shooters don't seem to notice or if they do, they just grin.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
I don't know if this has been pointed out yet or not but there's been a lot of chatter pointing the finger solely at the armorer, Hanna Reed. Now I have no clue just how qualified she is but I know who her pappy is. Thell Reed was a legend decades before he was a Hollywood gun coach. Do you know who all is in the picture? Not exactly lightweights. Reed is the short feller in the center. I would assume that Reed's daughter grew up around guns and knows far more about them and their safe operation than the average "shooter" and that the fault lies more with production and some goofy COVID rules than the armorer alone. I'd like to know who brought the live ammo onto the set and who was going out plinking with prop guns.
Ray Chapman, Elden Carl, Thell Reed, Jeff Cooper, Jack Weaver.
Ray Chapman, Elden Carl, Thell Reed, Jeff Cooper, Jack Weaver.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
Bingo! I don't see how Baldwin gets out of this one. He was the last man in the chain and he did break all four rules. My impression of him from interviews is that he is arrogant. I could see him blowing off the counsel and caution of others. Reed said she fought for more training and was overruled by production.
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