Disclaimer: This is just my experience and observations, not gospel. Don’t take it as anything else.
So I’ve been looking at the .380 tiny gun lineup for a while, all the normal suspects (even the tiny 9mm’s would be great, but only if they were really pocket small). I am not brand loyal and I don’t listen to stupid internet chatter praising or bashing particular brands based upon…..well, many times nothing discernable other then silly personal babbling and repeating what you’ve heard or justification of what you spent your money on.
My criteria: I’m looking for a super light, super small, reliable, concealable weapon for a reasonable price. .380 has enough power, not interested in that silly debate so please don’t start it. I was simply looking at the 9mm’s so I could keep ammo cost lower (and actually find ammo easily).
From all the information on the internet and all the spec comparisons, etc, I was pretty sure that I had it narrowed down to the LCP or the P3AT (for the right price). Tried designs, decent track records, reasonable prices, initial bugs fixed.
I’ll just say, I’m not a local dealer fan. Around me (NYC suburbs, most of the dealers are price gouging (every get quoted $100-150 for transfers?). Many are now pricing OVER msrp on every model (like $450-$500 for a base LCP, then fixing the transfer charges so it works out the same!). But that’s a whole different story…all you folks with reasonable dealers, count your blessings.
But, with perseverance, I got lucky. I was able to find a new local dealer and they had just about every model in stock to hold and use. Good news. And decent prices to boot. Not the best I’ve seen online, just decent. But, we’ll take it!
So, here’s where I was very surprised. Now please, I’m not bashing any gun, I think in reality they are all fine, I just think there are personal preferences that I had previously under-appreciated. So, I’m going to share my impressions:
The Kel Tec PF9, Kahr PM9 , Taurus slim 9mm – I looked at these because I couldn’t tell on the internet if they were a tiny bit bigger or significantly bigger relative to the .380 category. Given ammo cost, I’d LOVE to stick with the 9mm. But in the end, they are much bigger and in my opinion are not in the same “pocket” category. They are just too wide and heavy. If you can do it, great. I just couldn’t see wanting to carry them the same way as the little .380’s.
The Kahr 380 - I’m not a “it’s more expensive so it MUST be better guy”. If it’s really better, and you have to price it higher because of it, that’s fine. So I’ll be honest, I don’t understand the Kahr. It’s more expensive by a lot, but I truly don’t understand from a design perspective what I’m getting for that expense. I did like the better sights, but for double the price? And before you flame me for this comment, the Kahr has a track record no more or less reliable then some of the other models in the lineup, so please don’t tell me something stupid like “because it’s a Kahr”. I don’t care if you love Kahr, I’m brand indifferent.
The Sig 238– On the other hand, I absolutely understand what you are paying for on the sig. Great fit/finish. Uniquely different design in the category. Very solid. Hard to convey on the internet, but the gun is really attractive in real life and has a WONDERFUL trigger setup and sights. You hold it and you can really see yourself loving it for the aesthetics and for the hours you’d shoot it at the range. But there’s the rub on the sig. That’s NOT what I’m looking for. I completely understand all the folks that fall in love with this little gun, but for me, the extra weight and slightly extra bulk really make no sense. I don’t want a target shooting delight. I want something reliable that I can most easily conceal. The Sig’s extra weight and slight extra bulk is real and you can feel it. So, I couldn’t see paying the price premium for a gun that does a much better job being something I’m not looking for.
Kel Tec P3AT / Ruger LCP – These are not what I expected. First, Kel Tec’s price has gone up! Maybe it’s my dealer, but there was only a $20 difference. Now, it’s easy to see how to justify the $20. The Ruger has a much cleaner and nicer fit and finish. But here’s the thing that I couldn’t appreciate on the internet. I guess I have large fat fingers. I could NOT get my second finger on the grip of either, and as a result, I felt like I was STRUGGLING to hold on to these guns. I was completely uncomfortable with both every time I picked them up. I was not expecting that. In addition, the sights on both of these guns are terrible and as far as I can tell, almost useless in most situations. They are so hard to see. As a side note, one Kel Tec had a crimson trace on it. I figured that would help a lot. Man, it was hard enough to hold the darn thing without that extra button. But the one with it made it even harder. Worse, I couldn’t push the button for the crimson trace! The button falls in the crease of my finger, very UN-NATURAL for me to hit it. Wow, was all I could think. Started wondering if I really wanted one of these little guns anymore.
Taurus 738 TCP – This one surprised me. On paper, maybe the slide hold and chamber indicator are nice to have benefits, but nothing necessarily jumped out about this gun on the internet. In fact, when you look on the internet it seems like it might be “bigger”. It was priced between the LCP and P3AT, and in reality it’s pretty much the same size. On paper, they say it’s a tiny bit different, but if it is, I couldn’t tell. I held them all together, it’s the same category. But…The ergonomics were so much better for me! The grip is fractionally longer and I could solidly get my fingers on the grip and felt like I had a grip. The sights are tiny, but a little bigger then the LCP/P3AT. They are a better balance to me, I could see them and use them. This gun felt 100% right in my hands. It fit right and I could easily see using it and yet it stayed tiny and light. In my opinion, the thing you can’t really understand or appreciate on the intent with this gun is the ergonomics. THAT’S where Taurus made improvements in the tiny .380 design. If you have larger fingers, make sure you at least hold this one, I think you’ll like the way it feels. I really liked this gun.
Bottom line: Know what you are ACTUALLY looking to accomplish in this segment before you go to the store, otherwise it’s hard to understand/analyze the tradeoffs. Also, stop looking at the internet and “assuming” based on numbers that you know what you want. As I learned on this trip, there’s a lot to be learned from actually holding these little guns for yourself. The subtle design differences really do translate to significant differences in how they feel/function.
Good luck!
So I’ve been looking at the .380 tiny gun lineup for a while, all the normal suspects (even the tiny 9mm’s would be great, but only if they were really pocket small). I am not brand loyal and I don’t listen to stupid internet chatter praising or bashing particular brands based upon…..well, many times nothing discernable other then silly personal babbling and repeating what you’ve heard or justification of what you spent your money on.
My criteria: I’m looking for a super light, super small, reliable, concealable weapon for a reasonable price. .380 has enough power, not interested in that silly debate so please don’t start it. I was simply looking at the 9mm’s so I could keep ammo cost lower (and actually find ammo easily).
From all the information on the internet and all the spec comparisons, etc, I was pretty sure that I had it narrowed down to the LCP or the P3AT (for the right price). Tried designs, decent track records, reasonable prices, initial bugs fixed.
I’ll just say, I’m not a local dealer fan. Around me (NYC suburbs, most of the dealers are price gouging (every get quoted $100-150 for transfers?). Many are now pricing OVER msrp on every model (like $450-$500 for a base LCP, then fixing the transfer charges so it works out the same!). But that’s a whole different story…all you folks with reasonable dealers, count your blessings.
But, with perseverance, I got lucky. I was able to find a new local dealer and they had just about every model in stock to hold and use. Good news. And decent prices to boot. Not the best I’ve seen online, just decent. But, we’ll take it!
So, here’s where I was very surprised. Now please, I’m not bashing any gun, I think in reality they are all fine, I just think there are personal preferences that I had previously under-appreciated. So, I’m going to share my impressions:
The Kel Tec PF9, Kahr PM9 , Taurus slim 9mm – I looked at these because I couldn’t tell on the internet if they were a tiny bit bigger or significantly bigger relative to the .380 category. Given ammo cost, I’d LOVE to stick with the 9mm. But in the end, they are much bigger and in my opinion are not in the same “pocket” category. They are just too wide and heavy. If you can do it, great. I just couldn’t see wanting to carry them the same way as the little .380’s.
The Kahr 380 - I’m not a “it’s more expensive so it MUST be better guy”. If it’s really better, and you have to price it higher because of it, that’s fine. So I’ll be honest, I don’t understand the Kahr. It’s more expensive by a lot, but I truly don’t understand from a design perspective what I’m getting for that expense. I did like the better sights, but for double the price? And before you flame me for this comment, the Kahr has a track record no more or less reliable then some of the other models in the lineup, so please don’t tell me something stupid like “because it’s a Kahr”. I don’t care if you love Kahr, I’m brand indifferent.
The Sig 238– On the other hand, I absolutely understand what you are paying for on the sig. Great fit/finish. Uniquely different design in the category. Very solid. Hard to convey on the internet, but the gun is really attractive in real life and has a WONDERFUL trigger setup and sights. You hold it and you can really see yourself loving it for the aesthetics and for the hours you’d shoot it at the range. But there’s the rub on the sig. That’s NOT what I’m looking for. I completely understand all the folks that fall in love with this little gun, but for me, the extra weight and slightly extra bulk really make no sense. I don’t want a target shooting delight. I want something reliable that I can most easily conceal. The Sig’s extra weight and slight extra bulk is real and you can feel it. So, I couldn’t see paying the price premium for a gun that does a much better job being something I’m not looking for.
Kel Tec P3AT / Ruger LCP – These are not what I expected. First, Kel Tec’s price has gone up! Maybe it’s my dealer, but there was only a $20 difference. Now, it’s easy to see how to justify the $20. The Ruger has a much cleaner and nicer fit and finish. But here’s the thing that I couldn’t appreciate on the internet. I guess I have large fat fingers. I could NOT get my second finger on the grip of either, and as a result, I felt like I was STRUGGLING to hold on to these guns. I was completely uncomfortable with both every time I picked them up. I was not expecting that. In addition, the sights on both of these guns are terrible and as far as I can tell, almost useless in most situations. They are so hard to see. As a side note, one Kel Tec had a crimson trace on it. I figured that would help a lot. Man, it was hard enough to hold the darn thing without that extra button. But the one with it made it even harder. Worse, I couldn’t push the button for the crimson trace! The button falls in the crease of my finger, very UN-NATURAL for me to hit it. Wow, was all I could think. Started wondering if I really wanted one of these little guns anymore.
Taurus 738 TCP – This one surprised me. On paper, maybe the slide hold and chamber indicator are nice to have benefits, but nothing necessarily jumped out about this gun on the internet. In fact, when you look on the internet it seems like it might be “bigger”. It was priced between the LCP and P3AT, and in reality it’s pretty much the same size. On paper, they say it’s a tiny bit different, but if it is, I couldn’t tell. I held them all together, it’s the same category. But…The ergonomics were so much better for me! The grip is fractionally longer and I could solidly get my fingers on the grip and felt like I had a grip. The sights are tiny, but a little bigger then the LCP/P3AT. They are a better balance to me, I could see them and use them. This gun felt 100% right in my hands. It fit right and I could easily see using it and yet it stayed tiny and light. In my opinion, the thing you can’t really understand or appreciate on the intent with this gun is the ergonomics. THAT’S where Taurus made improvements in the tiny .380 design. If you have larger fingers, make sure you at least hold this one, I think you’ll like the way it feels. I really liked this gun.
Bottom line: Know what you are ACTUALLY looking to accomplish in this segment before you go to the store, otherwise it’s hard to understand/analyze the tradeoffs. Also, stop looking at the internet and “assuming” based on numbers that you know what you want. As I learned on this trip, there’s a lot to be learned from actually holding these little guns for yourself. The subtle design differences really do translate to significant differences in how they feel/function.
Good luck!
