They’re telling my I can’t keep guns in my apartment!

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StrikeFire83

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I know this is a long thread, please bear with me.

Okay, I have a story to relate to you fine gents and seek your advice. The drainage line broke in the central air conditioning unit in my apartment, and we put in a work order to have it fixed. Today, the super came into our apartment to have a look at the line, which is slowly draining a pool of water that is seeping through the carpet in our hallway. As soon as the man entered the apartment, he became noticeably uncomfortable and asked where the leak was. We told him, and he proceeded to look at it.

His discomfort, I’m sure, came from seeing the shot out target silhouettes which adorn our wall; I bring them home every time I go to the range. After about six minutes of looking at our AC unit, he approached me. I inquired as to what was wrong with the AC and if anything needed to be done by us. He ignored my question and asked me if I had any firearms in my apartment. I was surprised, to say the least, and told him that yes, I do indeed own several firearms. He asked me what kinds of guns I own, and I responded by informing him that this information was none of his business, and inquired as to what any of this had to do with. He did not answer my question, but simply said that the owners of my apartment complex want to promote a “safe environment†and that they “do not condone violence.†I had to choke back a laugh, because there have been several thefts committed by homeless people in our complex and my roommate’s car was even broken into several months back. He looked very disheveled, and told me that nobody was going to be able to do anything about my air conditioner leakage until Friday.

Well, Friday came and went and I still nobody has contacted me as to what will be done with the air conditioner. This morning, on the clip by my door, I found a form letter. The letter was written by the building manager, a guy who does not live on site. He said that the property management company does not condone firearm ownership and that they would prefer that I not keep my guns on the premises. I called the management offices this afternoon, and told them very bluntly that my guns weren’t going anywhere. I reminded them that there is NO clause in the lease which says ANYTHING about the prohibition of gun ownership on the property. The woman said, in a stupid and condescending voice, that the company wants to promote a “safe environment.†I asked her what that meant exactly, and she could give me no answer. I cited the break-ins and thefts recently, and again she had nothing to say. She only said that I would be contacted on Monday with more information. I emailed them a scanned copy of my lease, and they have yet to get back to me.

My lease ends on May 31st, and I am moving back home significantly sooner then that, probably by about the 17th or so. Should I just wait for them to make the next move, and hope that because their case is NON-existent that nothing will come of this. OR, should I ask my dad to contact his attorney and advise us?

Any help yall can provide would be greatly appreciated.
 
You're certain there is nothing in the lease AND you are moving in less than 3 weeks? Screw 'em, they couldn't evict you that fast if they started tomorrow, and they have no grounds to even try. I suppose they could include such an item in a new lease but you don't want a new one anyway so, like I said, screw 'em.
 
Bah..if I were moving in 3 weeks anyway, I'd start taping the darned things to my door. Or at least start wearing BDUs and making furtive eye movements and twitching every time I saw the manager.

If I were going to continue to live there, I'd behave professionally and politely and dig my heels in and refuse to meet their demands.
 
Contact with an attorney is good.[ CYA]
Most likely having a witness(s) that you left apt in as "good condition as possible" as per lease usually requires one do.

Now a little friendly suggestion.

I NEVER let anyone know I knew about guns, went shooting, or owned guns when I lived in an apt. NO targets, no gun oil, no guns out in sight...no NRA magazines...nothing.

Maintanence folks such as termite/ bugs folks, folks that change filters, or what if the hot water heater goes out above you...they will come in to see if you had damage when leaks thru floor...BTDT

These folks often have master keys, these folks 1) may not be honest, 2) be honest and in blabbing around others- information gets heard by criminal ears.

Low profile, I appear to be an older returning student, with my backpack, or needing to de- stress with a baseball bat carrier.

Loose lips sink ships.
 
it's very, very rare that I consider going on the offensive, to screw with people. but given your situation, the best defense is a good offense.

if I were absolutely positive i was leaving soon, then I'd think about getting a lawyer friend of mine to send some memos threatening legal action, to wit: they have created an unsafe neighborhood, harassed you, and you feel that your property isn't safe (as long as the super has the key) and you may be retaliated against if you renew your lease.

i'd start big and let them negotiate down. i'd cancel legal action if they do two things:
first, the owner would have to write me a nice letter stating very specifically that "he believes gun ownership promotes and is a critical part of a safe environment"
and second, i'd agree to move out, if they pay my moving expenses
 
An attorney? CYA? Against what? What are they going to do, evict him? He's already leaving.

There's nothing they can do to you. Smile, be polite, and say no.
 
Someone that doesnt like guns....in Austin......What a shock..... :banghead:

Copy the letter and place it on every door in the complex. That will get them some nice phone calls. Also add to the letter that you will happily provide signs for all entry ways to the property that state that "no one who lives here is capable of defending themselves".


Seriously I would write the landlord and tell him to take his "prefer" and shove it. They cant do a thing to you but try to ???? you on your deposit. In texas you can get treble damages for any money witheld wrongfully from a security deposit.
 
Wowzers! My old maintenance guy came in to fix the dishwasher while I sat at the kitchen table cleaning a SKS. About twenty minutes later, we had made plans to go hunt feral hogs.

But to the point: Screw 'em. Unless you're running a meth lab in the bathtub (and even then...), it's dang near impossible to evict somebody in Texas. If you're looking at timeframe of less than thirty days, they don't even have enough time to get you into court for a hearing. If they try to put an eviction notice on your door, then you let 'em have it. There is a highly specific procedure for that in Texas. Unless you find something from the leasing company that says "move out" taped to the door, nothing has happened, legally speaking.

That said, get a buddy with a polariod to come by when you move out. Photos of how insanely spotless the place is will come in handy if they refuse to pay back your deposit. That can be handled in small claims court. Keep a copy of the lease handy, too. If you're worried, do a search through the Texas property law about the "no good tenant" law. I think it applies here.

Just think of how nice it is that you found out what idiots they are just before leaving instead of in the middle of a lease.
 
I would go with a video of the place as you moved out (running time stamp with a close up of that day's paper). With that in hand you should be able to have some fun if they mess with your deposit :evil: .
 
Don Gwinn,

I'm coming from the angle- if these folks freaked out about guns, and say after he leaves...
Making sure the end of lease terms were met, and signed off on. I don't trust folks with a fear of guns to NOT come back later and "say" they needed to replace the carpet because "gun solvent" is hazardous, or for fear of "lead" great expense was needed to "clean" the air ducts...anything trumped up to make him have to pay higher cleaning fees.

He can forget using them for a refrerence down the road if he rents another apt...they may give a bad reference.

Dad's attorney can have someone do a walk thru, take a few pics, and verify the conditions upon leaving is all.
 
Bah..if I were moving in 3 weeks anyway, I'd start taping the darned things to my door. Or at least start wearing BDUs and making furtive eye movements and twitching every time I saw the manager.

That's what I was thinking. Maybe tape a shot up 'Q' silhoutte target to the outside of your door along with one of them full color, full page Navy Seals or Army Sniper ads found in most outdoors magazines. :D
 
That whole "hazardous" angle isn't going to fly. Unless it's in the lease, the landlord can't keep the deposit. He can't even keep the deposit to clean the carpets or paint the walls, provided that the tenant didn't cause any damage beyond what the court will consider "normal wear and tear." If he trashes brand new carpet, that's different, but if it's a small stain, or a worn spot in front of the door on a ten year old rug, it's not going to fly in court.

The landlord is going to have to appear before a JP and give a darn good reason why he won't refund the deposit. "He keeps guns in the house" just isn't good enough. The landlord will have to convincingly demonstrate that the property suffered substantial damage due to some act by the tenant.

Also, don't worry about court costs and attorney's fees. As a general rule, loser pays in property disputes.
 
Thanks everybody for all the support.

AN UPDATE:

My dad called his attorneys, and one of them got in touch with me this evening. I faxed the lease and a copy of their “form†letter to one of the lawyers at home (these guys are the ????) and he started laughing over the phone. He said it doesn’t even come close to anything legal, and found NOTHING restricting guns in the lease that I signed. He told me that the only way they can restrict guns is if it was an on campus dorm (which it’s not) or if there was a no guns clause in the lease, which there’s not.

We’re taking out the big guns, metaphorically of course. My landlord is going to ???? his pants when he sees the SIXTEEN page cease and desist letter that will be delivered to him by courier on Monday. The attorney basically told me this is the legal equivalent of a “F**K OFF†warning, and that I should be just fine. This hippie management company isn’t gonna know what hit them.

All this has raised some questions, though. Like, what would happen if we were poor or timid? My dad has a team of attorneys on retainer for his construction business, but otherwise I wouldn’t have had this kind of fast access. These people are really trying to bully me out of my guns, when there hasn’t been a single complaint against me for the 9+ months that I’ve been living here.

This whole thing is messed up.
 
Property Rights vs. Individual Rights

Aside from your deposit and landlord harrassment issues, there's a whole 'nother big game being played out here: Property Owners' Rights vs. Individuals' Constitutional Rights.

We'll be seeing a lot more of this unless WE and the various pro-2A groups get on the stick and get our state legislatures to "preempt" this kind of gun-grabber gamesmanship. It started a couple years ago with certain big corporate employers (AOL in Utah, and, recently, another corporation in OK) mandating "no guns" in employees parked cars on co. property.

THR also had an interesting thread re this issue about a month ago... complete with suggestions as to how to thwart said anti-2A employers.

It's just another sneaky end-run around citizens' 2A rights by bitter anti-gunners and their lawyers -- trying to achieve by "policy" regs/decrees (and judicially) what they cannot achieve at the ballot box: civilian disarmament.

You obviously live in a property owned by twits of that mindset. If I lived there, I'd have all the Texas gun-rights orgs all over these guys and make a precedent-setting case out of it. I'd also try to find some pro-2A journalist (probably tough in Austin) and get 'em looking into this... as well as exposing exactly what the political affiliations (and donations) of your landlord are. I doubt there'll be any surprises here, even though Dr. Screamin' Howie Dean just assured us that "guns" are no longer "an issue" for Democrats. (Right.)

Since you're a short-timer there, just keep your tenant-skirt clean and hold their feet to the fire over any deposit-return games. It also might be worth visiting a friendly lawyer next week... and have him write a little "just try it, @$$holes" letter.

Just another chapter in the next Civil War... in slow-motion.
 
Follow-up

StrikeFire, I just noticed you did get a lawyer involved. Smart move.

They probably WILL experience a sudden bladder problem when they get that letter. Wouldn't be surprised they also experience a traumatic evacuation of their colonic tract(s), as well. Too bad it'll mess up THEIR carpets.

However, the bigger issue is whether we'll start to see "No Firearms" clauses popping up in apartment leases -- kinda along the lines of those "gun-free" shopping malls, etc.

Anybody aware of anti-gunners' games in this area?

I know the Clinton-era Dept. of Housing made some noise about confiscating guns in fed-subsidized (ghetto) housing projects.
 
However, the bigger issue is whether we'll start to see "No Firearms" clauses popping up in apartment leases -- kinda along the lines of those "gun-free" shopping malls, etc.

This is why I do not want to live in company owned apartment building. IF by chance I had to live in one for while, I wouldn't likely obey such a clause.

I know the Clinton-era Dept. of Housing made some noise about confiscating guns in fed-subsidized (ghetto) housing projects.

They didn't just made noises, they did this in Chicigo.

-Bill
 
However, the bigger issue is whether we'll start to see "No Firearms" clauses popping up in apartment leases -- kinda along the lines of those "gun-free" shopping malls, etc.

They are free to put whatever they want in their lease. It is their property, their rules. I will simply choose not to sign that lease, or have anything to do with them.
 
They are free to put whatever they want in their lease. It is their property, their rules. I will simply choose not to sign that lease, or have anything to do with them.

What are you going to when they happend to be the only place taking renters when you are looking? Or Thier aparments are the only affordable ones you can find.

I'm sure a lot of gun owners find themselfs in this boat.

-Bill
 
Might make an interesting case. I do not remember the final outdone of the Chicago housing authority fiasco. The fact they are a government agency should have play.

Could the landlord insert a clause in a lease prohibiting free speech?
Allowing them to search apartments for contraband?
They cannot discriminate against the ‘protected classes’ (race, religion, national origin, etc), but what about just requiring a tenant to sign away rights?
 
"It's their property... to do whatever they want."

Well, no it isn't -- and that's the whole big issue here. I think Brickeyee has it nailed right, essentially.

What if apartment owners, condo homeowners associations, etc. start to automatically include "No Guns" clauses in their leases and/or restictive covenants?

OR... similar clauses restricting OTHER rights in our Bill Of Rights?

-- NO Freedom of Speech (you'll be fined/evicted/punished if you speak ill of our favorite political candidates).
-- NO Privacy (we can stop/search you anytime; we can break into your abode at will... all without probable cause... just because we say we can).
-- Anything we hear you say, or surrepticiously record you saying, can and will be held against you.

Get the picture?

It's the principle. Kinda depends on WHOSE particular favorite Rights are being gored, does it?

Where's the ACLU on THIS?
 
What apartments (why do they call them that when they're so close together? ;) ) do you live in? I've accidentally outed myself a few times around here, but noone ever says anything to me.

I learned a valuable lesson a couple of years back. Sunday afternoon I came in, and was just bushed. I took off my gun and set it on the bar with the rest of my stuff and figured I'd put it away later. As tired as I was, I forgot, and when I got home from work the next day, saw a note that the maintenance guy had been inside to check for a water leak. I was pretty mad at myself for a while after that, but fortunately nothing ever came of it.

If you don't want to put the name of the apartments and the management company here, then please PM them to me. I can get the word out around here, and they will find out just how many gun owners there are around these parts who will never do business with them. If they want to make themselves responsible for other's safety, then that's there choice....
 
I can get the word out around here, and they will find out just how many gun owners there are around these parts who will never do business with them. If they want to make themselves responsible for other's safety, then that's there choice....

If the rent is reasonable They may get away with a "no guns" clause with gun owners simply ignoring it and keeping quiet.

-Bill
 
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