This illegal infestation is out of control

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Can 15 relatives move in with you tonight?

Nobody would let 15 relatives, no matter how loved, to move into their house one night. Nor could they afford to keep them.
The same is true of our borders. We have the right and duty to have a RATIONAL border policy. Seal them tight, then let in those who want to and are able to JOIN the American nation and culture, not exploit it or tear it down or hate it.
 
Hmmm, I guess Mexicans need to come here illegally because they can't do it the legal way? Maybe they should be above the law?

And as for the apologists, sheese, I can't read it anymore, your thoughts are insane. Yea, flood a nations workforce with illegals from outside the nation that are willing to work for crap, send the money out of the nation, put an illegal and false sense on the American labor market and then call it good for the nation and call it "market bearing". I'll be damned, I've never heard a more twisted, self serving, apologetic, ignorant argument.

Fact is, illegal is illegal. Be legal or be kicked out IMO. :mad:

Oh yea, our border enforcement policy of all borders sucks!

I'm glad we all like guns. :)
 
Well according to Bill Clinton(AS reported in an AP article and a article in the demo-gazette) he told the whole big national LULAC confrerece in Arkansas in the past week or two that the way to push for legalization is to tie it to SAVING SS. Yea that is the ticket. Lets let them all in to save socialism. That my friends is the Demoratic talking point and plan. And I believe it is to late to win that war. It is just a matter of time. :what:
 
Rhubarb
Not only have you broken federal laws, but you've profited at the expense of American taxpayers in more ways than you can imagine. I'm sure that you're a nice guy, but I hope that you get busted and do some moby time. Not likely, but one can hope.
Biker
 
But see We are not supposed to have a national idenity anymore. With post modern thinking we are not even supposed to be a nation. The whole idea of this thinking ie multiculturalism is to break us up into little identity groups and kill the idea of the nation state. Why to survive we become citizens of the WORLD. We all become "Stepford citizens". We will all sing "We are the World" for out anthem forget "Proud to be an Amercian" forget the stars and strips we will proudly wave the rainbow flag. And this nation and the people here will be destroyed by violence and we will deserve it for our stupidity. Instead of this bringing about a utopia world (think "IMAGINE")it will be the beginning of the end for any world PEACE for a long dark time maybe forever. :eek:
 
Not only have you broken federal laws, but you've profited at the expense of American taxpayers in more ways than you can imagine.

Broken feddel laws? Oh, I'm so upset with myself now. :rolleyes: So? We sit around and bellyache about the feddel gummint telling us how to live our lives and it ain't right boo hoo hoo. My employer offered work at above the minimum wage to be paid in cash. Some of the people I hired were legal, some weren't. I got the job done and went on with my life.

Like I said, I believe strongly that there should not be people in our country who have not been screened for being a threat to the safety of the American populace. The Constitution charges the feddel gummint with protecting us from enemies that would do us harm. I don't see where in the Constitution it refers to not letting people come over here and work if there are jobs to employ them. I really like the documents of the founding of our country. See the Declaration:
He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.

Hell, to our Founding Fathers, not encouraging and naturalizing furrners was a cause for rebellion.
 
biker said:
Jammer
Still waiting for your explanation. Do you hire illegals?
Biker

From J6's participation in previous threads, I would say it quite likely he has pulled/is currently pulling "a rhubarb" and has "profited at the expense of American taxpayers in more ways than [he] can imagine."

Helpful hint:
When someone tells you, "It strengthens us any time an illegal immigrant crosses the border into this country," you can safely replace their word "us" with the word "me" and get the truth of the matter.

That's because "us" pay for the illegals' health care, their incarceration when they commit (more) crimes, the education (and birthing) of their anchor babies, and the increased insurance auto premiums when they drive uninsured and whack into our autos...to mention but a few ways my/"us" tax dollars support employers of illegal aliens.
 
You know what pisses me off about these threads more than anything? The absolutly insulting language used. One guy wants to mine the border, one guy says we need to start stepping on cockroaches and on and on and on. Do you people ever stop to think about what you are saying? if a person from the press got onto the High Road, all he would see is a bunch of redneck gun-nuts complaining about Mexicans, wanting to kill Mexicans, and referring to Mexicans in terms that border on out and out racism. You don't like our immigration policy, thats fine, but it is possible to talk about it in intelligent terms that don't make us all look like a bunch of chaw-spittin' morons. Remember, fellows, that as you stereotype and bash Mexicans, you are also reinforcing the stereotype about us shooters being violent gun-nuts. The other thing is that some of you people want to just round people up and ship them off. I know none of you want to be compared to Nazi's, so lets compare you to Americans of a different time. if you don't feel a certain amount of national shame for what we did to the Japanese-American citizens (who, by and large, were here legally) in WWII in the internment camps, then you need to read your history books. I know, I know, "(insert name here) wasn't around then, I didn't have anything to do with it", but yet now, 50 years later, some of you want to do the same thing. I know I need to watch my language on the forums, but dammit, legally here or not, THESE ARE PEOPLE. Some of these people are hard workers, some eventually become citizens, some are criminals and so on, but in the end, they are still people. Having grown up in a town that had a large population of immigrant workers, I can tell you straight away and honestly that I would trade any 10 immigrant workers for any 100 of the fine upstanding citizens that we house as guests of our respective states. My last point is one that I have made before, and that is that you also need to understand that "illegal" mexicans can join our armed services to gain citizenship, and in fact many do (I don't know if it is still true, but a lot of Filipinos gained citizenship this way) and some of these men died in service to our country BEFORE they were citizens. So, everytime that you stereotype Mexicans as viruses, cockroaches or whatever, remember that some of these men died for your right (and as much as it pisses me off at times, you do have the right to say stupid things) to complain about Mexicans.
 
One thing I haven't read in all the responses is the general LACK of assimilation into the AMERICAN lifestyle with the illegals. Here in N. VA, most are from Central America and generally want to make their own 'island' in this country and couldn't be happier if it got bigger. Many local businesses/companies are bending over backward to accomodate them in any way possible. The mothers, being mostly Catholic, have babies at an astonishing rate and flood all the gov't service offices with any welfare-type applications they can. Just you try and get your license plates done at the DMV in under 2 hours...

Just the past 10 years has really shocked me how huge this problem has become. Even living in TX as a kid, I never really noticed *that* many Mexicans. When I go back to visit my dad in Dallas now, I feel like I'm in a foreign country.

I dunno. At this point I'm not sure what we can do about it.
 
I am just baffled by the Invader Apologists. They don't take jobs Americans won't, they steal whatever they can get. They don't spend the money they make to insure their cars or improve their neighborhoods, they send it back to Mexico. They do not seek to become part of this nation, or even create their own little communities while their children become part of the country. They want to expand Mexico wherever they go. THOSE are the facts. The rest is Spin from people who have either no clue or an agenda. I don't really care which.

Yeah, thats right, every single Mexican that comes over the border drives an uninsured car and is a burglar. Your "facts" are opinion, and its important to distinguish between the two. Matter of fact, 2ndAmendment, I am flat calling you out on that BS. If those are "facts", then document them. And I don't want to see some link that your buddy at www.conspiracytheory.com wrote, I want to see hard evidence from a reputable, credible source. When you can do that, then you can call it fact. The other thing, you say that "they" don't "...even create their own little communites while their children become part of the country." Well, in fact, "they" do create their own little communities, but because those communities speak spanish and do business in Spanish, we, as Americans look down on them and want them to conform to our particular ways. You want a fact? Its a fact, that as of WWII, Wisconsin published more schoolbooks in German than they did in English. By god, we better kick all them dirty krauts out too! You want to label me an apologist, thats fine. I actually do think that we need to have a reasonable, sensible and most importantly, enforcable immigration policy. I absolutely believe that immigrants make this country stronger, and I would much prefer it if those immigrants came here legally. What I don't agree with, however, is this elitist attitude that we take on the issue. I am not trying to ruffle your feathers, 2ndAmendment, when I say this, but where did your family come from? If your not 100% Native American (of course, now "those" people just get drunk and open casinos), then the truth of the matter is that you don't have any right to be an elitist. I find it funny that we will go to Chinatown(s), Dutch communities and things like that and its all quaint and charming and fun, but we go to the Mexican side of town, and we are aghast. Hell, I go to college with a fair number of Latinos, many of whom are first generation Americans (or, as you would call them, Anchor Babies) and they are struggling just as hard, if not harder, than I am to improve their lives. Frankly, I have to say, if an illegal immigrant has an "anchor baby" that grows up to become a doctor, or a lawyer, or a cop or any of a thousand other things that improve our society, I really don't care. Allright, I have to go to bed now, so that I can wake up in the morning and go out and be an immigration apologist at my liberal college (which I know is the comment running through every person who disagrees head right about now). By the way, to establish my own credibility in the face of that potential arguing point, I am majoring in History, I am a registered Republican, I did volunteer work for the last election, I voted for Bush and I am a disabled Marine Corps Veteran who fought, and was wounded, in both Desert Shield/Storm and Somalia. I am 33 years old, and I have been around the world, have worked at a civil engineering firm, a humane society and for Hewlett Packard. I do not have the life experience that some of you ladies and gentlemen have, nor do I claim or purport to be intellectually superior (or, superior in any way for that matter) to any of you, but especially 2nd Amendment. I only say this to show that I am not some dumb kid who has never been around the block. I feel that since I have been riding on my high horse for two fairly long posts now, it is important to establish my backround so that you can see and get a sense of where I come from. As I said in my last post, I disagree very strongly with some of you, but I support your right to state your opinion. If nothing else, we all have the common ground of loving guns (Someone even said that in an earlier post), and I believe that we can all agree that the ability to express our opinions freely is a right every bit as valuable as the right to own a firearm (or, in my and many of the others on here case, a multitude of firearms). that is all.
 
By the way, since I made a statement of fact in the same post that I challenged 2nd Amendment to document his facts, its only fair that I give some documented credibility to mine. This does NOT directly support my claim about german books in Wisconsin. I got that fact from a textbook that I sold back a couple of years ago. All this does is lend credibility to my claim, and it may also give you an interesting perspective on things. its from the Wisconsin Historical Society, and thus, I believe, credible. anyhoo, here is the link.

http://www.wisconsinhistory.org/turningpoints/tp-037/?action=more_essay

Timbo
 
our immigration policy, thats fine, but it is possible to talk about it in intelligent terms that don't make us all look like a bunch of chaw-spittin' morons. Remember, fellows, that as you stereotype and bash Mexicans, you are also reinforcing the stereotype about us shooters being violent gun-nuts.
Oh, you'll do, and you'll never be out of ammo when you're shooting in Seattle. :D
 
I haven't the time today to meet TimboKhan's challenge to 2A. If it is still open when I can squeeze some time out of the day tomorrow, I'll be glad to give him plenty of facts from credible sources to counter his willd assertions of rascism, straw men, and general smearing of those who would like to have the border enforced and a voice in the debate.
 
2nd, I fail to see how your proposal of shooting 17 year olds who want to wash dishes in Chicago make us any more secure. :uhoh:

If the objection is to illegal immigrants not having zee "proper papers", bitte. Then why not a program to ensure that those that want to work can come in legally to do just that?

If the objection is only to ILLEGAL immigrants (as has be stated on THR many times), then, with a pen stroke, make the illegals legal. No objection to LEGAL immigrants, correct? :)
 
. . . a bunch of redneck gun-nuts complaining about Mexicans, wanting to kill Mexicans, and referring to Mexicans in terms that border on out and out racism.
This is a technique of the Left - don't limit your attack to your opponent's criticism of ILLEGAL Mexicans, just drop out the all-important word ILLEGAL and make it seem as if the people you disagree with dislike EVERYONE south of the border. The apologists for ILLEGAL aliens do this all the time - in some cases they even have the chutzpah to demand that their opponents in the debate eschew use of the term "ILLEGAL" and substitute politically correct pablum like "undocumented workers."

There's a profound difference between ILLEGAL aliens and LEGAL aliens - sort of like the difference between motorists and drunk drivers, hunters and poachers, shoppers and shoplifters, pharmacists and crack dealers, and so forth and so on.

Also note that there's a significant percentage - probably well into double digits - of OTM, or Other Than Mexican, illegal immigrants crossing the border. Including those from the Middle East and the PacRim.
Yeah, thats right, every single Mexican that comes over the border drives an uninsured car and is a burglar.
I don't have a problem with anyone - Mexican or otherwise - who enters this country legally and obeys our laws. But it is an absolute, inarguable FACT that every Mexican (or member of another group) who enters this country ILLEGALLY is a CRIMINAL.
 
If illegals from Mexico are so great, why are our jails and prisons full of them?
 
The Estimated Cost of Illegal Immigration






Illegal alien workers may increase profits for employers, but they are costly to the American taxpayer. Most illegal aliens have low educational attainment, few skills, and they work for low wages, often in the underground economy where they pay no taxes on their earnings. Since about three million illegal aliens gained legal status in the amnesty of 1986, the flow of illegal immigration has increased, and today that population is estimated at 9-11 million illegal alien residents in the country. The former Immigration and Naturalization Service estimated that the illegal alien population was increasing by about half a million aliens per year in 2000.

The Huddle Study
Because the number of illegal aliens can only be estimated, similarly the fiscal cost (government budget outlays) for those aliens can only be estimated. Dr. Donald Huddle, a Rice University economics professor, published a systematic analysis of those costs as of 1996 (see table below). The study also estimated the tax payments of those same aliens.

At that time, the illegal alien population was estimated to be about five million persons. The estimated fiscal cost of those illegal aliens to the federal, state and local governments was about $33 billion. This impact was partially offset by an estimated $12.6 billion in taxes paid to the federal, state and local governments, resulting in a net cost to the American taxpayer of about $20 billion every year. This estimate did not include indirect costs that result from unemployment payments to Americans who lost their jobs to illegal aliens willing to work for lower wages. Nor did it include lost tax collections from those American workers who became unemployed. The study estimated those indirect costs from illegal immigration at an additional $4.3 billion annually.

During the years since that estimate, the illegal alien population is estimated to have roughly doubled, so the estimated fiscal costs also will have at least doubled. Furthermore, the passage of time is accompanied by inflation in the costs of services, e.g., school budgets continue to climb. Therefore, what was estimated to be a cost to the American taxpayer of $33 billion in 1996 today would be at least $70 billion. Similarly, tax collections would have increased — sales taxes at least — so that the net expense to the taxpayer from illegal immigration would currently be at least $45 billion. The indirect fiscal costs would have also increased, especially during a period of already high unemployment, to perhaps and additional $10 billion annually.

1996 Costs Table from the Huddle Study 1

Programs
(billions)

Public Education K-12 $5.85

Public Higher Education $0.71

ESL and Bilingual Education $1.22

Food Stamps $0.85

AFDC $0.50

Housing $0.61

Social Security $3.61

Earned Income Tax Credit $0.68

Medicaid $3.12

Medicare A and B $0.58

Criminal Justice and Corrections $0.76

Local Government $5.00

Other Programs $9.25

Total Costs
$32.74

Less Taxes Paid
$12.59

Net Costs of Direct Services
$20.16

Displacement Costs
$4.28

All Net Costs
$24.44





Other More Recent Estimates
Other estimates have been done on components of the cost of illegal immigration. For example, FAIR estimated in 2003 that the cost of K-12 education for illegal alien children was at least $7.4 billion annually (see Breaking the Piggybank). This would be less that double the about $5.9 billion estimate above, but would be of the same order of magnitude. FAIR’s 2004 report on the medical expenses incurred because of illegal immigration (see The Sinking Lifeboat) shows uncompensated costs in excess of one billion dollars.

The cost of incarceration of illegal aliens in state prisons has also risen rapidly. In fiscal year ’02, the Department of Justice’s State Criminal Alien Assistance Program (SCAAP) distributed $550 million to the states to help defray their expenses, but this was estimated to cover only about one fifth of their outlays. Between FY'99 and FY'02, alien detention increased by 45 percent (from about 69,300 inmate years to over 100,300 inmate years), and that trend is continuing. These expenses do not include the costs of illegal aliens incarcerated in federal prisons, public safety expenditures, detention pending trial, expenses of trial proceedings, interpretation, public defenders, or the incarceration expenses of immigrants for minor offenses that do not meet the standards of the SCAPP reimbursement program. Therefore, it is clear that outlays for Criminal Justice and Corrections costs is today much greater than double the 1996 estimate.

While the cost of outlays for illegal aliens may be shifted by legislation among the levels of government and the private sector, the fact remains that illegal immigration creates an enormous fiscal burden on America and its citizens — a burden that Congress has levied upon us through short-sighted and haphazard immigration policy and succeeding administrations have aggravated by spotty enforcement of the law.

A Call for Action
Americans should demand that Congress and the administration work together to establish control over our borders and the interior of the country so that we have the assurance that aliens, whether immigrants or visitors, are legally present in the country. That objective is of vital importance for the sake of national security as well as for the impact on our tax bills.
 
I have yet to see a post where someone states the belief that we should leave our borders open to all comers.

Illegal immigration must stop. We must control our borders.

We are all in agreement on that point.

Next topic, please.
 
Jammer Six, how about posting your contracting business' name, address & phone number in Seattle. I'll print up and circulate some flyers among the illegal population here "Mojados-Trabajo, comida y amor de Jammer Six en Seattle" along with a map and directions. We get rid of them and it's a three way win.

Whadya say?
 
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