This is the HIGH ROAD isn't it????????
- Thread starter GRB
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thereisnospoon
Member
Too Much "High Road"
Honestly, I come here very little any more...there's too much of this High Road crap being thrown around for my taste.
Next we'll be serving caviar in the Trading Post...
Honestly, I come here very little any more...there's too much of this High Road crap being thrown around for my taste.
Next we'll be serving caviar in the Trading Post...
kd7nqb
Member
WHAT THE HECK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT. WE ARE VERY CLASSY FORUM HERE IF THERE IS THE OCCASIONAL FLAMER THATS IN SOMEWAYS BETTER FOR US ALL SHOWS DIVERSITY.
TCB in TN
Member
Best site on the web that I know of.
I have not been here very long, but I really enjoy the site. To me THR is about ideas and a mostly rational give and take of them. As for the drug issue, I disagree, and as for LEO bashing, well I AM critical of LEOs who do not do it right. I have family and friends in the business and have the upmost respect for them, but even here in small town USA there is way to much going on that is not "high road" in LE. So much in fact that I cannot see giving officers who I don't know my trust. In this country we used to talk about holding our civil servents to a higher standard. Today we don't seem to hold them to any. :banghead: I don't personally consider that bashing, and if you do well then maybe you need to raise your expectations.
I have not been here very long, but I really enjoy the site. To me THR is about ideas and a mostly rational give and take of them. As for the drug issue, I disagree, and as for LEO bashing, well I AM critical of LEOs who do not do it right. I have family and friends in the business and have the upmost respect for them, but even here in small town USA there is way to much going on that is not "high road" in LE. So much in fact that I cannot see giving officers who I don't know my trust. In this country we used to talk about holding our civil servents to a higher standard. Today we don't seem to hold them to any. :banghead: I don't personally consider that bashing, and if you do well then maybe you need to raise your expectations.
JMusic
member
I prefer crab claws (chilled) and maybe some poached salmon.
There's diversity here for shure but is that a bad thing? What I see is Mods closing threads for two reasons mostly. FNG's walking into a flame war from a post, or silly or ridiculous postings from those who know better. There is a bunch of new people coming aboard right now. Thats a good thing isn't it?
Jim
There's diversity here for shure but is that a bad thing? What I see is Mods closing threads for two reasons mostly. FNG's walking into a flame war from a post, or silly or ridiculous postings from those who know better. There is a bunch of new people coming aboard right now. Thats a good thing isn't it? Jim
lurkersince03
Member
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2006
- Messages
- 176
Chill out dude. It's not that serious. I've stopped taking EVERYTHING that the people say on this forum seriously a long time ago -- including the moderators. I'll be the first one to laugh at the types of people whom I find amusing (and I'm not going to identify those types, either). And that's not to say I'm closed-minded, but that I'm thoroughly convinced I'm right and that everyone else is wrong. And that's the end of that. I don't get offended, and I don't rant about it. In fact, I care so little, that I find myself shaking my head that I spent the minute or so to type this response THAT NO ONE WILL ACKNOWLEDGE.
lol internets
lol internets
I agree. I've had it up to my eyeballs with the internets. Pretty much everyone here has their minds made up and nobody is going to change them. Those that don't have an opinion are scared away before they have the chance. It's easy enough to claim the high road is taken, but in practice, it doesn't work... might as well call it 'thehighroad' and gear it towards abortion rights... the name alone implies that one side has more weight than the other...therefore it's very premise is biased.
Just call it "The Road". Hell, everyone here claims to be objective and only relies on proven sources. Prove to me that one road is higher than the other lol.
Just call it "The Road". Hell, everyone here claims to be objective and only relies on proven sources. Prove to me that one road is higher than the other lol.
LandShark
Member
I think "The High Road" refers more to attitude than political ideology. Discourse is much more civil here than many other forums.
lurkersince03
Member
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2006
- Messages
- 176
Totally. My advice for you guys who feel compelled to get emotionally derailed by what you read here? Do what I do: Stop reading anything in Social Situations.
For about a year, that's what I did after being harassed in private messages because I went against the grain in opinion regarding something to do with the wake of Katrina. Since then, I've spent all my time strictly in the firearms talk. Now that I've wised up a little, stopped caring about these people and their endless opinions, I can revisit General Gun Discussions and Legal and Political and not feel the need to debate anything. In fact, the first and foremost reason I started coming here is for the technical and legal assistance that the knowledgable, general-board populace is willing to bestow upon me. And that's what I'm still here for. I'm not here to debate anymore. I'll make a satirical joke or reference once in a while just because I can, but that's it.
And honestly, isn't that really how you survive the internets with your composure intact in the first place (or the real world, for that matter)?
For about a year, that's what I did after being harassed in private messages because I went against the grain in opinion regarding something to do with the wake of Katrina. Since then, I've spent all my time strictly in the firearms talk. Now that I've wised up a little, stopped caring about these people and their endless opinions, I can revisit General Gun Discussions and Legal and Political and not feel the need to debate anything. In fact, the first and foremost reason I started coming here is for the technical and legal assistance that the knowledgable, general-board populace is willing to bestow upon me. And that's what I'm still here for. I'm not here to debate anymore. I'll make a satirical joke or reference once in a while just because I can, but that's it.
And honestly, isn't that really how you survive the internets with your composure intact in the first place (or the real world, for that matter)?
The same could be said for a vehement anti. Arguably, they act more on "attitude" than we do.
Civility has nothing to do with it. Saying that one road is "higher" than the other implies a certain bias towards the entire argument. High or low. Right or wrong. The implication is that we are right and 'they' are wrong. I agree BTW, but it's not really cut and dry enough to say "the high road" is that of those who support RKBA. It's a personal position. We are no more civil here than anywhere else... the moderator lock stick is just used more often, right or wrong, I dunno.
Just playing devils advocate against all the zombies here. God forbid I take a personal position against what is commonplace.
When the opposition uses any tactic to beat us we can grow a very short fuse. We have to be able to go below any level they will try. Some of us who aren't afraid to fight in the gutters get tired of those who decry these tactics. This is a war plain and simple. Winning is all that matters and condisending attitudes don't help;
Deanimator
Member
I've never used illegal drugs in my life.
That having been said, I wouldn't give up one iota of my liberty to stop somebody else from using drugs. My freedom means more to me than the life of somebody who voluntarily uses drugs.
LandShark
Member
I pretty much take it for granted that everyone here is pro-RKBA. Beyond that, however, it seems all bets are off politically. As far as what I said about civility, I meant that there are less personal attacks and insults thrown around here than in other forums.
SoCalShooter
Member
I agree with that, keeping the high ground is only necessary when the enemy wishes to fight you on the same terms, however in the fight to stay armed and keep our freedoms apparently we are going to have to get a bit dirty to do so. Lets not bicker among ourselves, the "divide and conquer" strategy works very well for both sides of the argument and we must be careful not to let us DIVIDE ourselves. But when it comes to politics I do not believe there is a high road, its a prize fight and if you are in it you better be in it to win. I do not however intend to fight dirty amongst us, sometimes taking the moral or logical high ground is not always the right thing to do.
However it is important to support LE as far as you are willing to. We all have different opinions on what the HIGH ROAD is, but I do believe we can keep it at a civil level that we can all agree on, as in most of the Godfather movies and the Sopranos and so on family matters (gun owners across the US) should be dealt with by the family its internal matters.
If we act as a cohesive force to discipline eachother and to bring the fight to not only the enemy but to educate those on the fence then we will succeed. Founding fathers were a cohesive unit, they disagreed and debated much but in the end they came together to fight a common foe.
miconoakisland
Member
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2006
- Messages
- 66
High Road
Decency, respect and an open mind is what "the high road" is all about.
Differing opinions, debate, and verifiable facts is the linchpin for forums.
Advocating and endorsing behaviors is different from allowing adults a choice.
I don't advocate or endorse drug use but I realize that it occurs, and I think too many of our societal resources are spent dealing with the illegality rather than the cost.
I advocate legalization of drugs, although I abhor their use. The mere act of banning something increases use among those not naturally inclined to aquire.
Prohibition of alcohol in the early 1900's proved the falicy of blanket prohibition! The lessons learned then are ignored now. Any wide-spread prohibition or "war on......." just makes things worse!
Take the black market out of the equation and situations get better.
Drugs, guns, prostitution, gambling---make all legal and law enforcement could concentrate on murder, rape, theft, and robbery (victim crimes) with more fervor.
It's true, victimless crimes aren't completely victimless, but making everyone subject is a worse crime.
Cop-bashing is necessary. Too many badge-holders beleive they are the "end-all-be-all' and above the law they are sworn to protect. They should be prosecuted for the same indiscretions as us regular folk.
Blind obedience to law enforcement is expected by law enforcement whether or not a law is being enforced. A police officer can illegally detain a person if he thinks a law has been broken (even though no law has been breached, but the officer is misinformed or ignorant of such laws). A law-abiding citizen refuses restraint because he knows he is being unlawfully detained can be arrested for resisting arrest but cannot seek felony kidnapping charges against the officer!
Too many instances where it's "arrest now, figure out charges later" or "over -react now, get paid vacation leave, blame the victim".
The percentage of bad citizens police are after is the same percentage of bad police officers.
Decency, respect and an open mind is what "the high road" is all about.
Differing opinions, debate, and verifiable facts is the linchpin for forums.
Advocating and endorsing behaviors is different from allowing adults a choice.
I don't advocate or endorse drug use but I realize that it occurs, and I think too many of our societal resources are spent dealing with the illegality rather than the cost.
I advocate legalization of drugs, although I abhor their use. The mere act of banning something increases use among those not naturally inclined to aquire.
Prohibition of alcohol in the early 1900's proved the falicy of blanket prohibition! The lessons learned then are ignored now. Any wide-spread prohibition or "war on......." just makes things worse!
Take the black market out of the equation and situations get better.
Drugs, guns, prostitution, gambling---make all legal and law enforcement could concentrate on murder, rape, theft, and robbery (victim crimes) with more fervor.
It's true, victimless crimes aren't completely victimless, but making everyone subject is a worse crime.
Cop-bashing is necessary. Too many badge-holders beleive they are the "end-all-be-all' and above the law they are sworn to protect. They should be prosecuted for the same indiscretions as us regular folk.
Blind obedience to law enforcement is expected by law enforcement whether or not a law is being enforced. A police officer can illegally detain a person if he thinks a law has been broken (even though no law has been breached, but the officer is misinformed or ignorant of such laws). A law-abiding citizen refuses restraint because he knows he is being unlawfully detained can be arrested for resisting arrest but cannot seek felony kidnapping charges against the officer!
Too many instances where it's "arrest now, figure out charges later" or "over -react now, get paid vacation leave, blame the victim".
The percentage of bad citizens police are after is the same percentage of bad police officers.
Hanzo581
Member
I have read a few posts that do indeed speak about killing LE if they were to come and try to confiscate peoples guns, but mostly that is just from the keyboard commandos, you get that on any forum, no matter the topics at hand
Only if you believe that government, and by extension its agents, have the right to do anything and use any level of force regardless of the situation.
There is a definate "circle the wagons" thing going on with the people in LE who post here. They do have a tough job, but in the long run using massive force against civilians who are not especially dangerous is not making them any friends among those they are supposed to be there to serve and protect.
Twenty years ago I would have been one of the guys saying something similar to your complaint. I knew there were corrupt and abusive cops out there, I lived in Chicago for a few years and heard enough stories to know that they are imperfect human beings. But it was localized and directed primarily at criminals and people who were not nice folk.
Now the abuse and and continuing militarization of police forces can be and is directed against any citizen. If you breath wrong when you encounter a cop, "officer safety" and "compliance" kicks in and you too can end up being another victim to an officer who "just wants to get home at the end of his shift".
The real breakdown is not in LE but in the political system that is supposed to be in place to protect us from LE abuse. In most cases, it just no longer exists. There is no longer any effective political control over many LE agencies, nor are there any effective consequences for LE misconduct.
There are still a lot of jurisdictions where there is pretty good political control over LE agencies. But, in a lot of cases, it is just gone. And I do not see it coming back without some kind of voter rebellion.
pcosmar
member
I posted some time ago on the us v them attitude I have seen. I don't want to go there. I found this forum in my search and study of the Constitution and RKBA. I was well treated in my questions.
I am not into Cop bashing, but I am very much against some policies and practices that violate the Constitution. Some of our Laws need to change.
If it seems that I'm bashing Cops, it is probably my inability to articulate my thoughts via keyboard. It is more the Laws and policies that I am opposed to, not the people.
However it has bothered me to hear the "all felons deserve a tombstone" statements. I have spent decades trying to get past a stupid mistake. I have known some convicted for minor crimes. There are inocent people who are convicted of crimes they did not comit.
Blanket statements about all cops or all felons are often wrong.
Lets work at changeing the policies that violate all of us.
I am not into Cop bashing, but I am very much against some policies and practices that violate the Constitution. Some of our Laws need to change.
If it seems that I'm bashing Cops, it is probably my inability to articulate my thoughts via keyboard. It is more the Laws and policies that I am opposed to, not the people.
However it has bothered me to hear the "all felons deserve a tombstone" statements. I have spent decades trying to get past a stupid mistake. I have known some convicted for minor crimes. There are inocent people who are convicted of crimes they did not comit.
Blanket statements about all cops or all felons are often wrong.
Lets work at changeing the policies that violate all of us.
Outlaws
Member
I respect LE, and infact I intend to go into LE, but there should be extreme punishments for LE if they commit a serious abuse of power. Not a beating that is kind of debateable because someone is being cuffed but not letting the LEO cuff them, but a serious no questions asked "that was wrong" kind of abuse. All abuse should be punished, but serious things should be taken more seriously....just as war crimes are. After, there is a war going on drugs if I recall.
There is a definite trend on this board towards locking threads that "could" involve anti-LEO sentiment.
If there were an existing case where it was proven in a court of law that the LEO's were at fault, exercising an uncontsitutional warrant without question... that thread would be locked... reason given.. it leads towards leo 'bashing'. To heck with whether it was true or not... those threads "always" lead to disorder and chaos, thus they have no place here in this 'civilized' forum. Post a thread on Waco and see how far it gets... therein lies the double standard.
I'm 10000% towards private property and telling people to get away from what is yours. This website is private property more or less and they can get rid of any of us or lock our threads no reason needed... it's their perogative. So I"m not mad. But.
Look at some of the other boards... even arf isn't as bad on LEO as people are here. What can really happen... lock down any thread that could possibly be construed as antileo since we have lots of leo moderators on here?
Again, I'm probably just in a bad mood or something. I'm overreacting like I always do. All you 'can' talk about here is GUNS.. nothing else.. just GUNS... no off-topic area to vent, any topic must involve GUNS to get a response. I give up on the internet.. there is more hating here than anywhere else.. on the NRA, people in California, LEO's, Machine guns...
God it drives me crazy. Thank god my computer is almost obsolete. I can't take it anymore!
If there were an existing case where it was proven in a court of law that the LEO's were at fault, exercising an uncontsitutional warrant without question... that thread would be locked... reason given.. it leads towards leo 'bashing'. To heck with whether it was true or not... those threads "always" lead to disorder and chaos, thus they have no place here in this 'civilized' forum. Post a thread on Waco and see how far it gets... therein lies the double standard.
I'm 10000% towards private property and telling people to get away from what is yours. This website is private property more or less and they can get rid of any of us or lock our threads no reason needed... it's their perogative. So I"m not mad. But.
Look at some of the other boards... even arf isn't as bad on LEO as people are here. What can really happen... lock down any thread that could possibly be construed as antileo since we have lots of leo moderators on here?
Again, I'm probably just in a bad mood or something. I'm overreacting like I always do. All you 'can' talk about here is GUNS.. nothing else.. just GUNS... no off-topic area to vent, any topic must involve GUNS to get a response. I give up on the internet.. there is more hating here than anywhere else.. on the NRA, people in California, LEO's, Machine guns...
God it drives me crazy. Thank god my computer is almost obsolete. I can't take it anymore!
bogie
Member
Personally, I tend to avoid the religious loonies just as much as I do the folks who see chemical modification as a career choice.
Worst damn thing that ever happened to both RKBA and the Republican party was when the "I'm holier than you are" whackjobs jumped on...
Oh, by the way... I inhaled, and I support your right to do so, just as long as you don't get behind the wheel of a vehicle, etc., etc., etc....
Worst damn thing that ever happened to both RKBA and the Republican party was when the "I'm holier than you are" whackjobs jumped on...
Oh, by the way... I inhaled, and I support your right to do so, just as long as you don't get behind the wheel of a vehicle, etc., etc., etc....
Outlaws
Member
Thats a good point.
Why is this thread still open? Its not about guns, its about if people on this board are against LEO's. Bashing LEO's isn't up for debate based on some of the same reasons given for closing a few of my threads.
Mods what say you?
cloudcroft
Member
Glenn Bartley,
Strangely enough, I think you have that backwards: Lots of cops view citizens as "them" rather than we view cops as "them."
In other words, it's cops against criminals AND the general public, news media, etc..
Furthermore, if you're not a cop, you're not one of "them" and never will be.
And we all know a cop's life is a heck of a lot more valuable than any citizen's life is, don't we...which helps to show that there is a cop mindset (and a sense of superiority perhaps) of them vs. us, the unwashed masses.
-- John D.
Strangely enough, I think you have that backwards: Lots of cops view citizens as "them" rather than we view cops as "them."
In other words, it's cops against criminals AND the general public, news media, etc..
Furthermore, if you're not a cop, you're not one of "them" and never will be.
And we all know a cop's life is a heck of a lot more valuable than any citizen's life is, don't we...which helps to show that there is a cop mindset (and a sense of superiority perhaps) of them vs. us, the unwashed masses.
-- John D.
Many of us believe that wrongs aren't wrong if it's done by nice people like ourselves. ~Author Unknown
http://www.themilwaukeechannel.com/news/3958341/detail.html
I am not advocating bashing officers by posting this story just to show one example of why people don't trust them.
In Romans 13 the bible calles them ministers of God I have a lot of respect and admiration for what they do just really don't like how a lot of them do it.
LEO's please answer this if someone come thru your door with (according to the report) plain clothes and a police vest and atlanta has had a few home invations on the news do you shoot or wait to find out if they are real?
http://www.themilwaukeechannel.com/news/3958341/detail.html
I am not advocating bashing officers by posting this story just to show one example of why people don't trust them.
In Romans 13 the bible calles them ministers of God I have a lot of respect and admiration for what they do just really don't like how a lot of them do it.
LEO's please answer this if someone come thru your door with (according to the report) plain clothes and a police vest and atlanta has had a few home invations on the news do you shoot or wait to find out if they are real?
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