This is the HIGH ROAD isn't it????????

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There are a couple of parallels here...

The war on drugs can only be "won" through surrender of civil liberties.

The elimination of firearms in the United States can only be "won" through surrender of civil liberties.

What gets me is the never-ending media barrage that we get... "Obey the police, or this will happen to you." And nobody questions it. IMHO, the job of the police is to keep traffic moving properly (including directing traffic if necessary), keep people from doing stupid stuff on the highways, and keeping violent or larcenous people off the streets. Take the job back to the MINIMUM. Maintain public safety, and try to do something about crime.

Question authority. I don't care if you are an 18-year-old gamer, or a 50 year old gun nut. When you see something that makes you wonder, do something about it.

Clayton, Missouri police get VERY upset when they are photographed while rousting people for Driving While Black.
 
Glenn B:

I didn't read the whole thread - I don't have time. But I have to respond.

But do you seriously suggest that the actions of "law enforcement" are always "the high road" merely because they are wearing a badge :confused:

Do you believe that it is ever justifiable for a citizen to use deadly force in self defense against a criminal? Then how about when the criminal is wearing a badge...? How about when you don't know whether the criminal busting down your front door is wearing a badge or not - and you have about 2/10 of a second to decide ??????????

For the record I've never advocated anyone using "drugs" (ie - those that are now considered evil and illegal), but I really don't care if someone wants to abuse their body in that manner, as long as they aren't harming me. I certainly prefer that to armored cops busting down doors just on the suspicion of contraband. :uhoh:

It doesn't seem very high road to me, for you to suggest that anyone who questions or criticizes the activities of law enforcement must be a drug user or some other kind of miscreant. :rolleyes:
 
The WoD encourages gangs.

Gangs fight each other with guns to control turf.

The resultant deaths are used as an excuse to control guns.

Getting money to buy drugs creates crime.

Guns are often used in these crimes.

The resultant deaths are used as an excuse to control guns.

WoD is bad for legal gun ownership.
 
Well, my moment of not blindly trusting the police came when a friend of mine got plowed into at 90mph by an officer without their emergency lights or a siren on. It would have been all in the good except the officer then lied about these facts to cover his own ass but another officer refused to let him get away with it and came out and told the truth of the situation. Of course, the officer who came out and told the truth basically got chased out of the police force here while the offending officer is still around.
I won't even get into the di-dos the Portland Police Bureau have pulled since I first moved down there in 1995. As my uncle puts it, "If you want a good start as a hit man, join the PPB."

But hey, they're here to protect and serve, right? :rolleyes:
Mark(psycho)Phipps( HAHAHA! )
 
Arguable, but it *does* concern the High Road site which concerns guns and personal Liberties.
PM the mods if you have a problem.

Biker
 
How is this thread still going? It has nothing to do with guns.
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True enough. Among the moderators, we often discuss the direction The High Road takes as a force for intelligent debate and a voice of reason on some very emotionally subjects. Self examination is a good thing, it is a necessary thing at times.

It is true that this thread is not about guns per say. It is about The High Road itself. The High Road is not about a bunch of moderators who enforce rules, but rather it's about gunowners coming together for a common cause. Recently, the moderators have been discussing the direction the forum has taken, both pro and con, on this very subject. Some of the opinions have surprised me, others have not. It is heartening to see our members discussing the same issues. I believe The High Road is a diverse body of people that needs to discuss these issues. They are important issues. Individual liberties are issues at the very core of The High Road. This thread may be in the wrong subforum, but I do not believe it is off topic.

At any rate, I feel that the issues are important enough that they merit discussion, not blind allegience. I am heartened to see members discussing them. Thus, this is one moderator who will not close the thread as long as it remains civil.

Who would have thunk Biker and I would have agreed? ;)
 
Saying the War on Drugs is bad on legal gun ownership is sure stretching it. It exhibits the same logic liberals do when they say flash supressors, bayonet studs, foldin stocks, and pistol grip stocks make a rifle "more deadly".
 
Since when has this become an 'Us Against Them' thing, when them is just law enforcement.
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Because I've been arrested 3 times for things that aren't illegal. My constitutional rights have been violated... repeatedly. And whenever I even mention that all I get is a swarm of comments about how I must have a problem with authority, and I must only be giving half the story because there's no way cops would do that. Well, sorry to burst your bubble, but "yes way", they do. I hear "but they can't do that". Well no they can't, but they do anyway. Poor people don't sue.

I've lost all faith in the justice system. If you still have some, good for you. I hope you live the rest of your life without police harassment.
 
Well, it's SORTA related to the topic...

After over 15 yrs on-the-air at one point, I dealt with many public agencies in several/many Western Region markets... and found a consistency: The local metro police were a bit more uptight and un-forthcoming to deal with as my sometimse news anchor duties required, and the local Sheriff's Offices were the friendly, forthcoming, do-anything-for-you-that-you-needed bunch. This includes our local Eugene forces. Metro = unfriendly, Sheriff = friendly.

I currently work with the local Sheriff's Office ("with" not "for") and love 'em. But our local metro cops have a ghastly reputation (and have been majorly prosecuted); and I've even been harrassed by a female metro police officer!! ***??!! Lord, I just hide whenever I see one of 'em around. Very few people here seem to trust the local cops... and I can understand why.

If you want to both laugh AND get a little sick to your stomach, read Joseph Wambaugh's The Choirboys old novel about L.A. police forces. God.

Growth of a forum can naturally lead to greater percentages of potential disputes and disagreements. Nature of the beast. So... it's up to US, then, to manage ourselves with self-respect and mutual respect. Just do it.:cool:
 
Although I really can't imagine what the result would be if we did legalize drugs, those of you that think we should: do you really want your cardiac surgeon, your LEO, high on meth or even marijuana?
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What's to stop them now? Would you prefer them drunk?

As it exists now they can't go to work under the influence of alcohol, if pot was legalized would that mean they could just go to work high? No, it would mean get high on your day off just like they get drunk on their days off. My friend is a deputy sheriff, they tried to call him in the other day and he said "I'd get a DUI on the way to work, call someone else."
 
Nope, no cop-bashing ever on THR. Here, though, is another interesting post by one of our younger members:
Because I've been arrested 3 times for things that aren't illegal. My constitutional rights have been violated... repeatedly. And whenever I even mention that all I get is a swarm of comments about how I must have a problem with authority, and I must only be giving half the story because there's no way cops would do that. Well, sorry to burst your bubble, but "yes way", they do. I hear "but they can't do that". Well no they can't, but they do anyway. Poor people don't sue.

I've lost all faith in the justice system. If you still have some, good for you. I hope you live the rest of your life without police harassment.
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Now, not to pick on Mr. expvideo, but I was curious about why, at only age 22, he possessed such a jaundiced view of law enforcement, so I tried reading through all his previous posts. Couldn't locate any mention or specifics of his negative encounters with cops, although did read about his fascinating exploits involving drawing his handgun, several firsthand accounts of witnessing violent events and open-carry in the state of Washington (which doesn't really exist in the cities). So yeah, I'd chalk up the example post as a good example of hit-and-run anti-LEO sentiment.

Funny how some here chalk up the cop-bashing to new members and trolls. Plenty of senior members 'round here who love to indulge in their mind-reading of American police officers:
Lots of cops view citizens as "them" rather than we view cops as "them."

In other words, it's cops against criminals AND the general public, news media, etc..

Furthermore, if you're not a cop, you're not one of "them" and never will be.

And we all know a cop's life is a heck of a lot more valuable than any citizen's life is, don't we...which helps to show that there is a cop mindset (and a sense of superiority perhaps) of them vs. us, the unwashed masses.
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As for the WoD, I'd agree with most that opposing the WoD does not equal being pro-drug use, although I do recall a guy who used to post who on at least a couple occasions noted his proclivity for the good bud (not the beer).
 
Glenn Bartley said:
This is the HIGH ROAD isn't it???????? Yet I see an awful lot of posts advocating drug usage (at least through implication),
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With rare exception, the posts most advocating 'drug usage' are pointing out that many of our illegal drugs do indeed have positive uses in the medical sense, while the government takes a hardline view of 'they're bad'.

Like somebody else said, there's a huge difference between saying 'MJ's great, everybody should try it!', and my 'MJ should be legal because the WoD's is an infringement of our freedoms and a horrible money-sinkhole regardless'.

killing cops, hating cops
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We judge, much like a jury, on the evidence presented to us. Most of us will indeed change our opinions if future facts contradict early presentations. Many of us will put a disclaimer amounting to 'if this is the real situation, barring more information', etc...

We don't hate cops per say, we hate people who think that they deserve more privilages than the rest of society, such as politicians and cops who feel that they should get a free ride. Cops that get away with a simple reprimand, if even that, where I'd end up with a felony prison conviction.

We also hate criminals, which corrupt cops are. Just look at the joy we exhibit when a robber, murderer, rapist gets his due, preferably from the barrel of a would-be victim's gun.

taking the word of reporters or relatives of someone who has been wounded in shootout with police over the word of the police as if gospel. You probably would not take the word of those same people as anything but trash if you knew it was a CCW guy involved in a shooting, so why take the word of these people before you know all the facts, heck before you know even a handful of the facts that would tend to lend support one way or the other?
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Hey now, while a few situations have indeed been presented to us incorrectly, we do tend to give individual cops the benefit of the doubt. Still, SWAT entries into homes where no violent criminals reside, where there's no reason to believe that violent criminals reside is a bit on the jackboot side, isn't it? How about using swat, with weapons pointed, to arrest a dentist moonlighting as a bookie? How about a policy where most warrents are served by SWAT? Do we have no right to question a police policy?

This is THR, we're supposed to maintain a higher level of discourse. This does not mean that arguments will not erupt, that people will not disagree. What it means, at least to me, is that it doesn't devolve into a flamewar, namecalling, etc...
 
i dont see that, i read a few threads a day that look intresting....
maybe you are talking about POLITICAL views of drug usage? Like the libertarian stance of it shouldnt be punishible by law?
As somebody/s said earlier, there are good cops and more good cops and probably a few bad ones.... sad but true? but thats the way it is in ALL professions. Good thread though, made me think about it.
 
From GRIZ22:
Saying the War on Drugs is bad on legal gun ownership is sure stretching it. It exhibits the same logic liberals do when they say flash supressors, bayonet studs, foldin stocks, and pistol grip stocks make a rifle "more deadly

I cannot agree with you, I think Shooter503 pretty much said it right.

The WoD encourages gangs.

Gangs fight each other with guns to control turf.

The resultant deaths are used as an excuse to control guns.

Getting money to buy drugs creates crime.

Guns are often used in these crimes.

The resultant deaths are used as an excuse to control guns.

WoD is bad for legal gun ownership.

The WOD's furnishes the violence needed by the antis to justify ending gun ownership, if all drug related shootings were removed from stactics on crimes committed with firearms there would only be a fraction of what is now reported.
I remember back in the 1970's a lot of people figured that at least pot would soon be legal because of all the law students smoking it would get it legalized to protect themselves from arrest. It didn't work out that way, I believe the lawyers realized how much money is to be made off the drug trade. There is too much money to be made, don't forget the federal grants going to police departments, who would have to cut personnel if it wasn't for the WOD's.
Can the WOD's be won? I say never, and will use as one big reason the Illinois prison system. Most prisons have lockdown sweeps for anything illegal a couple times a year and drugs allways seem to be found. If drugs cannot be kept out of prisons how can any one really think they can be kept out of our country.
I personally care less if all drugs are legal or not I personally do not plan on using any of them, including alchol. No matter if it is drugs, or microwaves, if it is illegal and there is a demand for it there will be a black market and illegal money to be made.
Some cops are good and some are bad, the good are to be praised and the bad to be critized and that is what I see here most of the time. This is by far my favorite site for information and usually polite discussion. Jim.
 
Personal drug use punishable by law? What, for their own good?
"Stop polluting your body or we'll shoot you!"

...and a friend had to watch the public school system turn a normal, active young boy into a zombie because a teacher didn't want to deal with him.
(much of her class was on Ritalin, and her husband had some political power, so there ya go.) That's legal, so it must be good.
Legally, burning Jews was ok, then, as well as punishing folks for not turning in escaped slaves here in the States.
Ban anything, and you are largely responsible for the illegal activity which will naturally follow. Drug lords become fabulously rich and powerful, just as the Kennedies made it big on alcohol prohibition.
The dems are the biggest fans of the drug war because of this (and 'cuz these 'drug criminals' use guns, which can then be further controlled). They toss little nuggets toward the more socially liberal sorts in order to buy votes. "Medical Marijuana" is merely a golden paved road to larger government, and a larger DEA. After all, any protected class (like medical drug users) will invite 'cheaters', and will need large numbers of armed thugs to put 'em down.
 
i also havent read all 5 pages of responses but i am glad this member had the cajones to post this. it is true. this board has a resounding anti-law-enforcement tone. there are some outspoken people on here that do appear to have an anti-LE tone.

But do you seriously suggest that the actions of "law enforcement" are always "the high road" merely because they are wearing a badge?
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No, but conversely, do you always suggest the actions of law enforcement are always wrong because they are by virtue a government agent? there are several people here that are extremely suspicious of the government, up to nearly paranoia.

insofar as the original poster has said that there are some THR posters who advocating the killing of police officers, well i have seen many implications on this board.

1. DK Suddeth posted that in the Texas Penal Code it allows for the lawful killing of a police officer in self-defense. he is incorrect, it only allows for nonlethal self defense. the killing of a police officer "in self defense" is not listed as a criminal defense to prosecution in the State of Texas. of course, since he posted it, he obviously believes it. the problem is, because this is the internet, people can post their opinion about anything without being informed. never mind that it is illegal in Texas to dispense legal advice without a law license. DK has already said he is not an attorney, although he said he is intelligent enough to be one. i don't know what that means, but if he is, then he ought to know that disseminating that kind of legal advice without a law license is in and of itself illegal.

2. In the recent post about Atlanta (GA) Police serving a lawful search warrant, and having unfortunately shot a 93 year old woman who pulled a gun on them, there were many people in line to bash the cops on THR. i believe the original poster said that the cops hit the wrong house. that was wrong. the cops had a lawful search warrant and served said warrant on the correct house. the warrant was lawfully issued as a "no knock" warrant for officer safety. the woman shot three officers before they returned fire.

yet just because no drugs were found at the house does not mean they hit the wrong house and it does not mean that the warrant was a bad warrant. that is where the armchair internet lawyers are coming out. this is the same bunch of people who think that the police have no right to search you or your car when the law specifically does allow them under certain circumstances to do so. for those of you who think you know alot about the law, please list your credentials (experience, education, training, etc) that shows that you are indeed a qualified expert on the 4th and 14th Amendments and the laws of search and seizure, please?

another poster said that the grandma was justified in shooting three cops. well, if she didn't know they were the cops that is one thing. if she knew and shot at them that's quite another. the problem is, the investigation hasn't been completed yet and many THR members are busy saying the police were unjustified already. heck, with your guys' ability to solve all of these investigations so quickly without even doing an investigation you guys ought to be running the FBI.

personally, yes, i see there is an anti-LE sentiment on THR. i've talked to a few cop buddies of mine who no longer post or read on here because of their perceived anti-LE sentiment.

i favor all viewpoints, but i prefer to read the viewpoints of those who are reasonable and prudent, not just someone spitting venom who doesn't really have any logical basis when they post their rhetoric.
 
Hey Glenn, good to see a member of Nation Of Riflemen posting over here. I don't know what to tell you. My experience in general with firearm sites is that there is a strong libertarian current running, hence some of the drug references. Then there are an awfull lot of people that get their tinfoil hat cinched down a little too tight sometimes and I'll include myself there.

Despite some of the more incendiary threads being shut down and referred to Armed Polite Snoozefest, the Social Situations section here is no better or worse than most of the other well known forums and many of the same people post across all of them.

The Tools section however, quite often features some excellent information.
 
I am fairly new to this forum, but from all the threads I have read, I haven't noticed much in the way of Anti-LE/ pro drug use threads. That being said, I'll have to throw in my two cents. I have noticed a lot of skepticism towords the actions of law enforcement, not just on this forum, but from most of the people I talk to. I think it is where most peoples minds are going these days. With all the stuff people see on the news, and through other media, Law enforcement is often demonized. Not to say that all Law enforcement is infallible, They are human, subject to all the same mistakes us Non-LE folks make. They are held to a higher responsiblity by the public and get castrated by the media when they make mistakes. Don't let the bad eggs in LE make the rest of them bad too. But don't let down your guard either.

Question authority. I don't care if you are an 18-year-old gamer, or a 50 year old gun nut. When you see something that makes you wonder, do something about it.
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I agree whole heartedly, it's what keeps authority honest. but I do think that this is mistaken for resisting authority altogther.

I really think that all the opinions we all have, is what makes this forum one of the most interesting I have been to. If all the threads offered the same views, I wouldn't be nearly as entertained, and I surely wouldn't learn as much.
 
I think the problem the original poster has with THR is it's a place everyone's free to voice their opinion. They can give their honest thoughts, within the rules of the forum, without fear of reprisal.
 
I read all of this and didn't see when MR Glenn ever replied to anything that was said. If you are going to post something Glenn that is going to ignite this kind of debate you really should stick with it and not ignore it after your first comment.
 
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