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This might be the last decade for the 2nd Amendment

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by sharpshooter74, Jan 5, 2013.

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  1. michaelbsc

    michaelbsc Member

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    http://www.dailyherald.com/article/20130105/news/701059819/

    And here is a perspective from Chicago, which should be close to the mindset of he White House.

    The strategy to "get a national conversation" is delineated. Clearly this is a reporter's view, not a game plan from Washington. But it seems coherent enough.
     
  2. OilyPablo

    OilyPablo Member

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    I never said they are. Thanks. The discussion was about voting blocks. My allegation as others have backed is that not all man made silly racial or whatever groups vote the same.
     
  3. Ragnar Danneskjold

    Ragnar Danneskjold Member

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    It's not just that antis that will contribute to the demise of the Second Amendment. Reading a lot of the posts and threads on THR has greatly discouraged me. The sheer number of gun owners who are willing to throw other gun owners under the bus is staggering. There is a HUGE attitude of "I don't care if you ban or take what others like, just let me keep what I like" among far too many gun owners, even some on THR. People who are more than willing to allow a ban of high capacity magazines, or even semi-autos in general as long as they can keep their wood stock shotguns and revolvers. We're one of our own worst enemies. It's sad and pathetic.
     
  4. Carl N. Brown

    Carl N. Brown Member

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    "This might be the last decade for the 2nd Amendment"....
    ....or the last decade of the anti-gun crusade that started with the Sullivan Act.


    If there truly is a national dialogue on guns, it would be a welcome change: I recall when I researched the issue in 1960s using the Readers Guide to Periodical Literature and the public library's archives of magazines going back to the 1920s, the anti-gun position dominated. I believe that generations have been brainwashed to believe guns=bad guncontrol=good no questioning or reasoning allowed. Honest dialog and debate could only help our side.
     
  5. wow6599

    wow6599 Member

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    +1. Like the GOP who can't seem to agree on much either.......
     
  6. hang fire

    hang fire Member

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    Being three score and 12, I have observed a few things in life.

    And one of those things I have observed to always hold true, is that when it comes down to the bare bones wire of put up or shut up on critical issues with consequences. Those persons who openly bragged bravely as to what they were going to do, were the first ones to capitulate, then cut and run.
     
  7. kwguy

    kwguy Member

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  8. skwab

    skwab Member

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    I didn't read every response so forgive me if this is redundant, but I see where the OP is coming from and don't 100% disagree with him or Alaska. Since the AWB and the damage it did to the Dem majority, only the most fervent of antis in congress were willing to discuss the issue of gun control, and for 8 years we had a Republican in the WH and Obama's first term he avoided it like the plague because he knew he had one more campaign to run. Until now, new regulations involving guns were laughable.

    Now, we have a second term Liberal Pres with nothing to lose, we have a fractured Republican Party who is trying to redefine itself and is not cohesive on much of anything right now. We do have a growing minority populace who traditionally leans left, and a media who is incessant with painting firearms in a negative light, unless it's in the realm of pumping up box office numbers - then it's okay - but yeah, it's a rough time for 2A rights.

    Pessimism is not, IMO giving up, but I can see where the pessimism is derived from. As long as the masses have their iphones and unlimited data plans and their food stamp cards, they're not going to give a flip what happens to the 2A. Everyday more and more boomers are getting on to social security, medicare. More people than ever are relying on the government to have their daily needs met than at any other time in our history (this is an assumption so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) - but if forced to choose between 2A rights and a decrease in their medicare benefits, what do you think they're going to choose? Fiscal responsibility? Who cares as long as my SS check clears and doesn't shrink.

    No it's a scary time for 2A rights and conservatism as a whole. But I still have hope that this is not the case, that we're entering a time where our rights are systematically eroded. We were at a rodeo this weekend, and here is a group of people who still have pride in our nation, pride in celebrating our flag, where "God" is not treated like a four letter word, where respect still means something, and freedom is pretty damn important. Seeing all the kids and families there - still gives me hope, and that's what I cling to.
     
  9. asia331

    asia331 Member

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    I've tired of the pessimism. Pessimists stand aside. If they come for our rights why not let let the opposition fear our reaction instead? Civil rights is a 2-way street brothers and sisters! Civil disobedience has been a traditional and effective course of action. If that doesn't work, un-civil is always an alternative. Example? Try 1964 American history.
     
  10. michaelbsc

    michaelbsc Member

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    Because this is the kind of speech that will get you singled out and picked up as an isolated case.

    In 1964 there were 1st Amendment rights, too. Those are slowly being eroded just as surly as 2nd Amendment rights. But that's not germane to this board.
     
  11. justice06rr

    justice06rr Member

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    The last decade for 2A? I think not.

    I will make sure my future children will inherit my firearms and have the means to exercise that freedom to own them. Not all minority groups or people of color (yes, I'm non-White) vote Democrat. With Obama's last run, the next election will almost be guaranteed to be a Republican president again (same as after Clinton and his AWB).

    My entire family did not vote for BO, so did the rest of my church congregation which are non-white.
     
  12. Onward Allusion

    Onward Allusion Member

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    I will have to disagree with you 110%. Do you really think that only conservative Whites and maybe a few moderate to liberal Whites....are willing to stand up for the 2nd Amendment??? Do you really think that black folks after being "oppressed by the man" for centuries want to give up their guns? Do you think Asians who immigrated from hellish countries don't know what the price of freedom is? Do you think our Israeli friends in this country don't know about history? I could go on for another couple of dozen examples with racial attributes.

    You are coming across as a defeatist not a realist. Just remember the old adage, the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Except in this case, it's us who need to be loud and clear. No freakin' compromise. No AWB. Believe it or not, we outnumber the anti's. They just have a louder voice and we have to shout 'em down through our reps, senators, media representatives...etc..etc.
     
  13. Prophet

    Prophet Member

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    Thank you, your service is invaluable. I wish more of our teachers would follow your example. My public school district is in utter shambles because sensible people like yourself who try to make it in are demonized. Thank God we elect the school board.
     
  14. 1911 guy

    1911 guy Member

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    Regarding this tangent of the discussion, I have to agree with Onward Allusion. To claim a racial motivation for pro or anti gun (or any other freedom) is a bit short-sighted. It's an education issue. When people are told what the stakes are, told they have a stake in the game and can be reasoned with well enough to convince them of it, they suddenly find a libertarian streak, regardless of race. Or political affiliation.

    Given the proportion of people on this board who have identified themselves in various conversations as non-white, non-middle aged and non-male, it seems a little silly to say there is a monopoly for one view or the other in a certain group, based solely on ethnicity. As the demographic of the nation changes, so does the demographic of the average gun owner. I'm one one board, definately gun related, where just over half the membership is female.

    I recently made a few posts in some threads regarding ethnicity. They were contrasting the "liberal" view of non-whites as supposed statistics and victims versus the "conservative" view of everyone standing on their own merits. Of course i got blasted by the left leaning for being racist. They missed the point. Educate people and they will respond, not as your statistics say they will, but as people who have gained a new knowlege and therefore a new power to exercise. Right alongside the people who are shocked to see them there because "statistically, they should be X"

    Writing off a whole group(s) of people just because we see them as "not for us" is folly. Instead, reach out to them. Imagine that young scruffy looking kid from the "wrong side of the tracks" was your neighbors kid. What would you tell him if you thought he was being led astray? You'd try to tell him the truth. How many here have made the mistake of teaching their sons to shoot while their daughters are forced to sit at home and bake cookies with Grandma? If you do that job well enough and the lightbulb goes on inside another head, we've gained another ally. Far better that than another alienated bystander.
     
  15. autospike

    autospike Member

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  16. Ragnar Danneskjold

    Ragnar Danneskjold Member

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    I'm not sure many people are saying anything about racial motivation.

    Everyone just stop and think for a second about whether you firmly grasp the difference between "correlation" and "causation".

    Got it? Ok. The OP is not saying that racial minorities are anti-gun because they're minorities. But the fact remains, most minorities vote Democrat. Most Democrat politicians are anti-gun. So using the old Transitive Property, most minorities do support anti-gun politicians. No, not all. But voting records are plain. Most do. Whatever their reasoning is is going to be different from person to person. Maybe one votes Democrat because they're in favor of amnesty. Maybe another votes Democrat because they want to see the welfare state increased. Maybe yet another votes Democrat just because their parents did, or because the first minority President is a Democrat. There's a thousand reason. But the reasons aren't really relevant. The fact is, they just do. Voting records are clear. Most racial minorities in the United States for for Democrat candidates. The party that has gun-control as a stated platform belief. Those are just facts. And with that being known, the OP does make a decent point.
     
  17. The_Armed_Therapist

    The_Armed_Therapist Member

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    I don't think minorities are solidly "liberal to the core." A strong majority of voters simply vote for the one issue they perceive as important, without always knowing all of the consequences or understanding other important issues. My neck of the woods is predominantly black/African. Most vote for the one side because they perceive that the one side supports programs to help them. This, of course, is only partially true. Most don't know the consequences of this, nor do they realize there are more important things at play regarding their situations in which they feel they need help.

    But it's not just minorities, of course... In my previous place of residence, it was predominantly white/European. There were JUST as many clueless voters there as there are here. They would vote for the one side because of some cock-eyed reason, such as that side's opposition to recognizing gay marriage. Again, they voted with partial information and gave it more value than more important issues at play.

    The idea that someone votes for a candidate/party in full support of their platform is simply false. That's easily a minority of voters. I know hardcore pro-2A people who usually vote Democrat, and I know anti-2A people who vote Republican. I have yet to find a candidate/party with whom I agree on everything, and I know where to look. Most don't even know where to look.

    I realize this thread is very long, and I'm not even sure if these things are relevant. Just thought I'd chime in. LOL
     
  18. Alaska444

    Alaska444 member

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    Demographics cannot predict individual choices, but they are instructive of where a certain group will likely vote. Advertisers understand this as well as politicians and pay a great deal of money for demographic research. Once again, that does not delineate how any individual will or won't vote on any given issue.
     
  19. mortablunt

    mortablunt Member

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    Posted By: Alaska444
    Exactly on which United States of America on which planet do you spend most of your time? That's not at all what I'm seeing from my peers, who would be the recent grads and young people. They want jobs, money, and freedom. I've yet to find anyone who wants to remove the Constitution.
     
  20. David White

    David White member

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    Never mind..
     
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