effengee
Member
I'll try a little mythbusting...
Does anybody here have access to a .50 BMG for a little experiment???
Try near missing a watermelon or ballistic gelatin and get back to us ASAP
Myths, like riddles, can be figured out if you scrutinize them hard enough.
The Geneva convention and/or any accords only apply when both parties agree to them during/after a state of war has existed.
This myth about certain weapons being excluded from certain use is often from the Vietnam conflict. NOT a war, as most people think. It is officially termed a Police Action. Let us all hope those that someday police us don't use bombs the size of Honda Civic's dropped from cargo planes and other goodies like landmines and Napalm to resolve the conflict.
Many CO's throughout the years have frowned on their grunts using "odd-ball" equipment or tactics that might bring negative responses from the higher ranking commanders... i.e. Shotguns for their inherent "gory wounding effect", crossbows, silenced pistols, foriegn firearms, abnormal tactics, etc. They also frowned upon collecting ears and scalps, but it really happened... Or the stuff like my buddy who was a doorgunner in 'Nam told me stories of how a body that is shot by a large machine gun will lift off the ground. If hit succesfully and carefully, the body will continue to levitate off the ground untill it literally disintegrates.
A less macabre example of this reality can be had with any rapid fire .22 and a tin can... My friend did it to a cantelope (sp?) got off 6 with a 10/22 before there wasn't anything left to shoot at...
The logistics/command and control structure is augmented by uniformity.
During and following WW2 it was noted that a 10 man squad often carried several different types and calibers of firearms. Ammo supply was bad at best, but even more so when trying to outfit up to 15 firearms of different designations and up to 6 different calibers.
Throughout the years, attempts were made to reduce these numbers to a single type and caliber of sidearm (pistol) and a standard small arm (battle rifle) with one or more members outfitted with a Squad Automatic Weapon aptly knicknamed the "buzzsaw" and others with an anti-armor weapon.
This allows the squad to be light, mobile, and still maintain a high level of lethality across the spectrum of battlefield engagements.
Now, even if you were under direct orders not to engage the single enemy soldier with any of the "abnormal" weapons, and said enemy's infantry suddenly storms your position, what would you do?
A. I'm not using my Ma Duece to grease these guys because of the peace accords or the moral judgement of what constitutes civilized warfare.
B. While Ma Duece cools down, I'll use whatever else is available to kill the enemy before he kills me.
I've heard many a "knowitall" say that shotguns were never used in Vietnam and many a vet say he used one for effectively clearing hooches...
You'll also hear people say that it was illegal for an American soldier to carry anything but an M-16 as his main battle rifle. Yet I know at least one vet who preferred an AK-47 when on point and more than a few early guys who didn't trust the M-16 and opted for the M-14 of Korea fame...
Many a vet also has said to me:
"What's the worst they could do? Send me to the 'Nam, again?"
Meaning: "Next to this, how bad could anything else ever be?"
Besides, they can really only punish you if you live...
As for the near miss theory...
I have heard stories about this happening from larger (20mm and up) projectiles passing very, very close to people and mildly injuring them by the shockwave that was created... Mild concussions, hearing damage, etc.
If a 20mm won't jelly your brains with a near miss, why would a .50???
The squirrel on a branch thing...
Yup, did that. Also hit one with #6 20 guage pellets and didn't see him again until later that year through a scope. He was missing part of his tail and one ear and had a nasty scar on his belly. But he sure wasn't dead.
I once missed a deer's throat with a shotgun slug by a few centimeters. Blew the tree apart right next to his head. He sprayed the ground with brown pellets as he ran off and I never saw him again...
A friend of mine told me that he missed a grouse by mere inches and the bird died of a heart attack. Does that count?
I guess there is no real answer...
There are many cases of soldiers being told not to waste "hard" ammo on "soft" targets for various reasons and far too many uninformed and ignorant people who spew "genuine war stories"
The real issue is whether or not the situation is really desparate enough and the person invloved is smart enough to employ any and all available weapons to gain a tactical advantage...
No military manual of arms that I know of will tell a soldier to bonk a mortar round on the fuse and toss it at a single enemy soldier, but it has been done...
My own humble opinion?
Don't ever intentionally miss your target.
When in combat, fight like your life depended on it. Because it does...
Jimbo
Does anybody here have access to a .50 BMG for a little experiment???
Try near missing a watermelon or ballistic gelatin and get back to us ASAP
Myths, like riddles, can be figured out if you scrutinize them hard enough.
The Geneva convention and/or any accords only apply when both parties agree to them during/after a state of war has existed.
This myth about certain weapons being excluded from certain use is often from the Vietnam conflict. NOT a war, as most people think. It is officially termed a Police Action. Let us all hope those that someday police us don't use bombs the size of Honda Civic's dropped from cargo planes and other goodies like landmines and Napalm to resolve the conflict.
Many CO's throughout the years have frowned on their grunts using "odd-ball" equipment or tactics that might bring negative responses from the higher ranking commanders... i.e. Shotguns for their inherent "gory wounding effect", crossbows, silenced pistols, foriegn firearms, abnormal tactics, etc. They also frowned upon collecting ears and scalps, but it really happened... Or the stuff like my buddy who was a doorgunner in 'Nam told me stories of how a body that is shot by a large machine gun will lift off the ground. If hit succesfully and carefully, the body will continue to levitate off the ground untill it literally disintegrates.
A less macabre example of this reality can be had with any rapid fire .22 and a tin can... My friend did it to a cantelope (sp?) got off 6 with a 10/22 before there wasn't anything left to shoot at...
The logistics/command and control structure is augmented by uniformity.
During and following WW2 it was noted that a 10 man squad often carried several different types and calibers of firearms. Ammo supply was bad at best, but even more so when trying to outfit up to 15 firearms of different designations and up to 6 different calibers.
Throughout the years, attempts were made to reduce these numbers to a single type and caliber of sidearm (pistol) and a standard small arm (battle rifle) with one or more members outfitted with a Squad Automatic Weapon aptly knicknamed the "buzzsaw" and others with an anti-armor weapon.
This allows the squad to be light, mobile, and still maintain a high level of lethality across the spectrum of battlefield engagements.
Now, even if you were under direct orders not to engage the single enemy soldier with any of the "abnormal" weapons, and said enemy's infantry suddenly storms your position, what would you do?
A. I'm not using my Ma Duece to grease these guys because of the peace accords or the moral judgement of what constitutes civilized warfare.
B. While Ma Duece cools down, I'll use whatever else is available to kill the enemy before he kills me.
I've heard many a "knowitall" say that shotguns were never used in Vietnam and many a vet say he used one for effectively clearing hooches...
You'll also hear people say that it was illegal for an American soldier to carry anything but an M-16 as his main battle rifle. Yet I know at least one vet who preferred an AK-47 when on point and more than a few early guys who didn't trust the M-16 and opted for the M-14 of Korea fame...
Many a vet also has said to me:
"What's the worst they could do? Send me to the 'Nam, again?"
Meaning: "Next to this, how bad could anything else ever be?"
Besides, they can really only punish you if you live...
As for the near miss theory...
I have heard stories about this happening from larger (20mm and up) projectiles passing very, very close to people and mildly injuring them by the shockwave that was created... Mild concussions, hearing damage, etc.
If a 20mm won't jelly your brains with a near miss, why would a .50???
The squirrel on a branch thing...
Yup, did that. Also hit one with #6 20 guage pellets and didn't see him again until later that year through a scope. He was missing part of his tail and one ear and had a nasty scar on his belly. But he sure wasn't dead.
I once missed a deer's throat with a shotgun slug by a few centimeters. Blew the tree apart right next to his head. He sprayed the ground with brown pellets as he ran off and I never saw him again...
A friend of mine told me that he missed a grouse by mere inches and the bird died of a heart attack. Does that count?
I guess there is no real answer...
There are many cases of soldiers being told not to waste "hard" ammo on "soft" targets for various reasons and far too many uninformed and ignorant people who spew "genuine war stories"
The real issue is whether or not the situation is really desparate enough and the person invloved is smart enough to employ any and all available weapons to gain a tactical advantage...
No military manual of arms that I know of will tell a soldier to bonk a mortar round on the fuse and toss it at a single enemy soldier, but it has been done...
My own humble opinion?
Don't ever intentionally miss your target.
When in combat, fight like your life depended on it. Because it does...
Jimbo
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