Three Scenarios

[Westminster]

Hello All-

I been wondering about a few scenarios and would love to hear your ideas:

SCENARIO A:

At dusk, you leave the mall, walking out to your car. Through many cars fill the lot, you see no one else except a large, unkempt burly man. As he sees you, he briskly starts to approach you. Your instinct tells you the situation looks bad. You take your interview stance, and firmly say, "How can I help you, sir?" The man does not stop but continues to approach. You again say, "Stop right there, sir. How can I help you." He is now 15 feet away and continues to approach. What do you do?

Possible outcome 1: He's a smart bad guy. He is not going to draw his knife, gun, etc. until he is right upon you, giving you no definite reason to know for sure that he intends harm.

Possible outcome 2: He's an innocent mentally retarded fellow who is walking directly to the bus stop which is 30 feet behind you.

SCENARIO B:

At dusk, you leave the mall, walking out to your car. Through many cars fill the lot, you see no one else. As you near your vehicle, a large burly man steps out from a van parked 15 feet away from you. His hand in his pocket with a menacing bulge directed at you. "Hey, buddy! Got some money to spare for a poor, hungry fellow human?" The tone is not plaintive, but menacing. What do you do?

Possible outcome 1: He's a bad one, Mr. Grinch. He has a gun, but you can't see it.

Possible outcome 2: He's a rude panhandler with a bottle of liquor in his pocket.

SCENARIO C:

At dusk, you leave the mall (really, this mall is not as dangerous as it sounds). Walking out to your car, you see no one else. As you near your vehicle, a large burley man steps out from a van parked 15 feet away from you. His hand in his pocket with a menacing bulge directed at you. "Give me you wallet," he says. The tone is menacing. What do you do?

 

[JamisJockey]

A) Run

B) Run

C) Run between parked cars, drawing weapon on the go, seek cover.

 

[Preacherman]

(a) Move out of his line of approach, and watch him. If he changes direction toward me, move again. If he changes direction again, he will be regarded as a threat to my safety, and I'll act accordingly.

(b) Answer "No, I'm afraid I don't", and move out of any possible line of fire (e.g. behind another car to provide cover). If he gets aggressive - see the last sentence in (a) above.

(c) Draw my weapon immediately and cover him, as he's given me probable cause to believe a crime is in progress. Move to cover while doing so.

 

[OrvilleYertleson]

A move to the other side of the car. If he changes course to pursue me, then I will have a better understanding of the situation. If it were practicable, I would then walk back into the mall.

B Answer: "Not today" and depending on his location and reaction, either go back in the mall, get in my car, lock the doors, and quickly drive away, or draw weapon.

C I would probably shoot him. By having his hand in his pocket and pointed at me, he is presenting a legitimate threat. Feel free to let me know if I am wrong though.

When I was growing up, I had an eerily similar encounter at the mall. I was shopping with my mom, and when we left a little after dark. Since our car was parked towards the back of the parking lot, there was no one else parked nearby since most people had gone home already.

As we approached our car, I saw a man with a trench coat just standing on the far side of the car. My mother was oblivious, and when I pointed him out, she said something like: he probably just needs directions or something. When we got closer, he walked around to the drivers side, and just stood there, not saying anything. I was unable to convince my mom that anything was even remotely out of the ordinary, so I did the only thing I could: walked over to the drivers side with her, stood outside while she got in and started the car, and then got into the back seat behind her. The guy stood there and stared at me the whole time. I had a folding knife, and I would have used it if I needed to, but it was not a good situation. Anyways, that was probably seven or eight years ago, my brother and I have since grown up and moved away, but my mom hasn't changed.

Curiously, my Mom is afraid to be in the house if the doors aren't locked, even if my father and I are home, but she refuses to acknowledge that someone may actually try to break in or hurt someone.

 

[TheLastBoyScout]

Disclaimer: I am underage for a carry permit, but here are my hypothetical responses. With my current legal ability to go armed-- none -- the default response is either: avoid getting into these crappy situations or [monty python] RUN AWAY! RUN AWAY![/monty python]

A) Alter course, preferably putting an obstacle between us. If he alters course to match, address verbally <again> and prepare to draw. If he continues-draw and give him one last chance to walk away- if he continues->shoot to stop the threat.

b) respond negatively but politely, while maneuvering to put an obstacle between us. If he starts to follow around the obstacle, tell him to stop, and if possible get behind another piece of cover. If he continues, draw and order to freeze, if he continues after that, shoot to stop the threat.

c) Clear leather and open fire immediately. The man is within 21 feet and has manifested criminal intent.

Asterisk to all these scenarios: How the heck do these suspicious burly men continually get within 15 feet unnoticed?? LoL jk jk.

 

[JamisJockey]

Feel free to let me know if I am wrong though.

I don't think you're actually wrong, I think that the problem is the BG now has the drop on you. If he's armed, he will either (try to) shoot you when you draw or break contact.
By immediatly moving off his line of attack you give youself time to draw your weapon, and it presumably (parking garage) sends you towards cover. Anyone short of Bob Lungren isn't likely going to be able to hit a moving target with a pocket pistol in thier coat pocket held at the hip.
You can also distract the BG by pulling your wallet and tossing it off to the side, if you really want to shoot him...

 

[Series 70]

In all cases, move laterally behind cover.

In A, if he changes course towards you, forcefully tell him to stop. Unless you are substantially smaller or handicapped in some way, you probably are not in a legal disparity of force situation. No deadly force in this case. Keep moving away, keeping cars between you and yelling loudly for the guy to stop and keep away. He'll realize you're more trouble than you're worth and move along.

If he makes you think he's going for a weapon, then shoot.

In B, yell "No! Stay away!" Hand on sidearm. Use if necessary.

In C, draw. If the guy leaves, let him. Keep moving. If he keeps after you, stop the threat.

 

[7.62FullMetalJacket]

Are criminals animals? I have always found that running at them with my arms flailing and screaming tends to scare them away!

J/K (as I wriggle in my straight jacket)

What Preacherman said.

 

[Dionysusigma]

A- Realize that someone is carrying a mirror, and their car is next to mine. Get in car quickly so as not to look silly.

B- Give him the dog bag in my hand and back away.

C- Toss wallet (there's no money in it anyhow) and run like mad.



A (for real this time) Get in car as fast as possible. Get the H3ll out of Dodge.

B: Refer to A.

C: Toss wallet (there's no money in it anyhow) and refer to step A.

Being a "minor" sucks. :banghead:

 

[Josey]

I have a response or three. In A, I would belch as loud as possible and move to cover. It has worked. In B, I would say NO! If he persists, tap 911 and move to cover while telling him LEAVE ME ALONE! In C, I would offer him a 9MM vasectomy.

 

[Ryder]

A - I'd have not challenged him that way in the first place. I'd have veered off onto another course before he got that close feigning condition white. Wouldn't take long to figure out if I was his objective. I put an obstacle between us and inquire of his intent while standing my ground. I won't clear leather unless there is a threat and I stall for witnesses.

B - This would be a rare event around here. I'd smile and offer to buy the guy a meal. Should be plenty of places to eat in the mall. Could make for an interesting conversation.

C - My wallet is chained. Can't happen. Bad scene. There have already been some appropriate answers to this one.

 

[clubsoda22]

A. Move away from him, if he starts moving to intercept, run, yell at him to go away. If he runs after me, i'll assume he's chasing with the intent to harm me. Sprint to get some distance, put some obstacles between us and hopefully find other people to be witnesses, turn, expose gun, prepare to draw, start yelling for him to back off. I don't think the "run to your car and drive away" idea works. The situation has to be dealt with there. If i ran to my car, i'd have to withdraw my keys, unlock the door, get inside, lock the door, start the car, and pull out of the spot. By step 2 he'd probably be on me.

B. Say, "sorry, this is all i have" and give him some loose change and keep walking. If he want's more and wasn't asking but telling, i'm sure he'll make that clear. In that case, seak cover, draw, prepare to fight.

C. Frankly, i don't want to give him a chance to get whatever it is out of his pocket, so i'm gonna draw, jump behind the nearest car, and issue some commands at gunpoint which will be obayed if he knows what's good for him (unless he wants to run away, in which case, all the better).

 

[joab]

(A)
Make a wide arc, to your left if possible, pivotting as you go keeping your left side to him as you palm or prepare to palm your gun, or as you prepare to run.
If you force him to change his line of travel to engage you. you also force him to reveal his intentions, by keeping your left side to him you also hide your gun and hand . If he continues toward you, he has IDed himself as a threat if not you go on your way and he goes on his

(B)
Make a wide arc, to your left if possible, pivotting as you go keeping your left to him as you palm or prepare to palm your gun, or as you prepare to run. Tell him no, if he continues in your direction put your hand out , kinda like a traffic cop but not as rigid (you don't want to look like a total dork) And ask him to kep his distance in a firm, non threatening, non hysterical manner. If he continues toward you, he has IDed himself as a threat if not you go on your way and he goes on his

(C)
Make a wide arc towards cover, it's harder to hit a moving target with DTs. He has already IDed himself as a threat, put as much space and cover between you as you prepare to engage the threat

Say, "sorry, this is all i have" and give him some loose change and keep walking. .

Nope I won't pay a toll to go about my business

To all those that say to shoot , Remember that in public your burden of proof is much greater, he has as much right in the street as you do. If you shoot a man with his hand in his pocket or just for approaching you with no weapon, you are going to have a hell of a time getting out of the legal end of it. You will be portrayed as the bad guy for shooting some poor guy down on his luck.

 

[Dr.Rob]

Scenario A:

You assume he's a dingo ignoring your "command voice" in reality he's just returned from "purse holding" duty in the "childern only" play area in the center of the mall. You aren't in uniform so why on earth should he treat you like an authority figure? Now I realize you are a highly trained stone killer, so why on earth would the first bad guy at dusk come looking to pick on your hard steely resolve rather than the 16 year old bubble gum snapping waif who's mixing truancy and capitalism over at the Orange Julius? Really there are softer targets at a mall.. you likely made a mistake. Maybe he's listening to his I-Pod and isn't paying attention to your "inteview stance". Lighten up. What the heck is an "interview stance" anyway?

Scenario B:

Any homeless person worth his sterno avoids trouble, that means dangerous looking steely eyed kata flinging hard chargers like you. That usually means a resolute 'NO" will make them turn their attention elsewhere. The INSTANT a homeless looking guy violates your space you need to open a can of whup-ass, or a 40 oz. of malt liquor if available.

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I appreciate the war gaming that goes on here or in IDPA... but seriously if you go looking for trouble you will find it, and if you constantly expect it you are going to give yourself a heart attack or drop the hammer on someone who didn't deserve it.

Scenario C sounds like the real deal. You are in fight or flight mode.. big and burly.. can you out run him? Is he really going to unload on you as you run away dodging and weaving? Are you going to take cover? If armed will you draw first or wait until you reach cover to do so? Or will you fake him out and draw your weapon instead of your wallet? All of these might be an option...

I think getting cover is best... armed or not, he'd have to be John Wayne to hit a moving target from his pocket .. MOVE.

 

[clubsoda22]

Nope I won't pay a toll to go about my business

Maybe it's just from living by philly. Frankly, it depends on how friendly a demenor they have and how blatantly they lie to me off the bat as to why they need money. Frankly, i'm more likely to hand my spare change to someone panhandling on the sidewalk than someone who rudely asks me in a mall parking lot.

 

[clubsoda22]

actually, after reading the scenario again, i've changed my mind on the panhandler. What dumbass panhandles in an EMPTY parking lot. I think i'll just say, "nope sorry" and keep my distance.

 

[TamThompson]

A. Move sideways away from him--duty to retreat if at all possible. If he changes direction and follows, clear cover and place hand on holstered Glock 30 so that he sees it. Hopefully, no further action required.

B. Smile sheepishly and say, "Naw, sorry, I'm flat broke," and get into my truck. If he persists, and gets belligerent, drive off. If he has prevented me from getting into my truck, back away, clear cover and prepare to draw.

C. Act like a submissive victim and say, "Uh...sure...whatever you say... just please don't hurt me. Here, my wallet is"--draw Glock, and voice changes to command tone--"right here." I'm opposed to shooting someone for a simple robbery, but since I'm a fairly attractive female, the attack may not be limited to robbery. So I would draw.

 

[milton]

Tam, too much yapping in C. Move and shoot him. I've read that you've trained. Have you seen folks get shot while talking to someone in FOF?

I have. A threat to rob you and an implied weapon is enough. You've wasted a few seconds letting him close and your attention is diverted by your speech.

 

[The Rabbi]

Scenario A) BLAM BLAM BLAM!

Scenario B) BLAM BLAM BLAM!

Scenario C) Blam Blam Blam [reload, repeat].

Seriously, there is a comfort zone and anyone getting within it is asking for trouble. I think Preacherman probably had the best solution. Try to weed out the possibilities other than malicious armed attack and if unable to do so then act accordingly.