Purpose of .38 spcl only guns?

[scythefwd]

jad, how common is a 4 inch barrel on a carry piece? I would say it is probably closer to 1100 in most arms, and that is if BB didn't overrate their velocities like most manufacturers do. I'm not saying BB does, but it is a common practice. Either way, they are a bit hotter than the load data I have. The closest I can get is 1000fps for a 158 gr bullet.

armsmaster270 +P+ isn't necessarily safe in +P rated .38sp only guns. +P+ doesn't have an upper limit and it very easily can be loaded to .357 mag pressures.

 

[KJS]

I wouldn't call a 12 -13 oz gun heavy.

Neither would I. As I recall, the Ruger LCR is 13 oz and rated for 38+P. I know S&W makes some very expensive ultra-lightweight alloy .357s that weigh just over 12 ounces. While I've never fired a gun that light, I'm willing to trust others who tell me they're a brutal endurance contest when using full-power .357 ammo.

I have a GP100 with 6" barrel. With a full underlug that thing is hefty and muzzle heavy and just a few ounces short of 3 pounds. In that using .357 feels right. After all, isn't the point of such a heavy barrel to help tame the recoil of potent loads?

 

[jad0110]

jad, how common is a 4 inch barrel on a carry piece?

Probably not all that common, but I do it fairly regularly.

I would say it is probably closer to 1100 in most arms, and that is if BB didn't overrate their velocities like most manufacturers do. I'm not saying BB does, but it is a common practice.

I seem to recall reading right here on THR some independent tests that were done, and the velocities obtained were very close to BB's claims, within normal variation IIRC.

 

[gmh1013]

I have a SP101 .357 2 inch barrel that I would never fire .357 out of because its going to hurt and with a short barrel why bother....I use Speer +P 135 as the max for the ruger
My old Colt diamondback when I do shoot it once a year ...maybe only gets low power
.38 Winchester 110 grain.
I would only shoot a .357 from a 4 inch on up GP or 686 prefer a 6 inch to get max power from a .357 ...that what I hate about most new revolvers AND auto's there is not enough weight to shoot the high power ammo and have control with fast follow up shots.

 

[Gatofeo]

Most of those who buy lightweight .357 Magnums do so because actually shooting it is secondary to carrying it.
The first time they take it to the range, and fire .357 loads, they get a painful education in physics.
In my opinion, there are just some guns that are unnecessary if not ridiculous: an ultralight .357 among them. Recoil is stiff enough in a medium-framed gun of steel, with 4" barrel, you want to touch off this round in a small revolver that weighs 13 ounces?
The .38 Special in +P is about the most that 99 percent of the folks out there can handle. I have a Charter Arms .44 Bulldog I bought in 1979. Its recoil is heavy with standard factory loads, downright brutal with reloads a little heavier.
The .38 works. It has for more than 100 years. It will put meat in the pot and a body on the slab if the right loads are used.
For hunting, the .357 Magnum is very good: accurate, powerful and flat-shooting. But its recoil can be horrendous with full-power loads. This isn't so much a concern when hunting, but vicious recoil can delay a second self-defense shot if you miss or are engaged against multiple opponents; the .38 is more controllable in rapid fire.
I own both .38s and .357s. Both are good guns, but I don't feel undergunned with the proper load.

 

[MCgunner]

With Ruger (unlike other manufacturers) the only difference between the 357 models and 38 models is the cylinder honing. Materials, dimensions, and heat-treatment are the same.

Reason to buy a Ruger 38 special only is:

1 Less wear for used models
2 Less liability (Non-Magnum rounds)

So far as I know, the LCR couldn't handle the pressures of .357 even if it were chambered for the round. Anyway, at 13 ounces, I wouldn't wanna shoot it.

 

[GRIZ22]

Issue Federal 110gr +P+ 38's The Treasury load, we replaced the FBI load with them.
__________________


armsmaster270 +P+ isn't necessarily safe in +P rated .38sp only guns. +P+ doesn't have an upper limit and it very easily can be loaded to .357 mag pressures.

I worked for the Treasury Dept and was issued +P+ by Federal and Winchester in the late 70s. We were told they were safe to use in a J frame but I didn't believe it then but used them in a Model 64 and 66. In the early 80s I was proved right when we had a couple of Model 60s part company with half their cylinders and top strap. We were told to use +P+ only in 357 guns after that.

 

[armsmaster270]

we used them in model 15's and fired thousands without misshap.
The Winchester's were rated at 23,500CUP and clocked 1218fps out of a 4" barrel.

 

[scythefwd]

armsmaster270 - may be the case but .... I wouldn't want someone to get their hands on some +P+ and use it without the warning..... +P+ is not a formal standard and there are not pressure limits on what they can attain. Use at your own risk and only in guns that are in good shape. .357 mag recommended.

 

[Stainz]

To dispell the myth, a S&W 642/442 and 340PD are exactly the same size - and would be indistinguishable in the dark - except for the weight. The 642/442, of Al alloy frame and SS cylinder and barrel, weighs 15.0 oz. The 340PD, of Al/Sc alloy frame, SS barrel, & Ti cylinder, weighs 11.4 oz. Both come gripped the same - with a painfully dimunitive open-back boot grip.

Shooting the Remington R38S12 +P 158gr LSWCHPs from the 642, which chrono-ed 840+ fps, is not 'fun'. There is some recoil - but the dimunitive grip is the real culprit - there is nothing to hold on to! Larger grips take it out of the pocket carry realm, however, so one learns to 'live with it'. Go to a 340PD and some hot CorBons, and real misery can be your's. A helluva hand slap, which tries to rip the small grip from your hand, is accompanied by an earsplitting 'crack' and unreal illumination - even outdoors in decent light. Indoors, you'll damage your hearing - and - if fired at typical 'intruder' distances, you'll likely cauterize any wound you inflict - and start his funeral pyre. A friend invited me to shoot his so loaded - at an outdoor range. Yeah, one shot should have been enough... but no, this idiot had to try a second. Easily the most miserable handgun I'd ever shot - and I've shot nearly everything. He had shot only regular .38s from it - with gloves - and still didn't like it. He bought it 'because .357 Magnums are great for personal protection', or so he was told at the gun store.

The 'mission' of a .357 Magnum should always be recalled. It was an improvement over the .38/44 - devised to to hole car doors and wound fleeing felons in the thirties for J. Edgar's 'G' men. The LEO handgun of the day was a .32 or .38 S&W; .38 Special, even, was a luxury. Bad guys often raided National Guard armories - and carried everything. S&W made a masterpiece in the .357 Registered Magnum - and proved it's utility as a hunting handgun round, too. Do we need it today for personal protection? I don't think so - and voted, as I said in my earlier post, by keeping +P .38s as protection, and my .357 Magnums for 'hobby' uses. So, .38 Special only revolvers have a function in my life. YMMV.

Stainz

PS Just FYI: MSRP - 642 $600; 340PD: $1,122 (from '09 S&W catalog)

 

[KJS]

Indoors, you'll damage your hearing...

For the first 35 years of my life I failed to appreciate just how exceedingly loud a gun really is till I fired a .357 at an indoor range as my first shooting experience. That's probably something like the acoustics of firing a gun in your house at a bad guy. I wear the heaviest muffs made -- the huge 33 decibel mega-huge variety that are anything but small or sleek -- over ear plugs and still a .357 is anything but quite even with all the hearing protection possible. I sure wouldn't want to fire that without ear protection as I'm sure virtually every self-defense shooter must.

 

[StrawHat]

My reason for having a 38 Special instead of a 357 is that I like and appreciate the original ballistics of the round. Much like the original ballistics of the 45 Long Colt, a heavy bullet at moderate velocities. Not bad , really, if you think about it. Can the ballistics be improved? Maybe, but my point is, they don't need to be.

I find the 158 grain SWC, launched at about 850 fps is an accurate load and not at all punishing to my hand. Will it penetrate a bull mose from sternum to tail? I doubt it but for that, they make other cartridges.

 

[armsmaster270]

First thing I did after getting my 340PD was to put larger Crimson Trace Grips on it.

 

[Blue Brick]

So far as I know, the LCR couldn't handle the pressures of .357 even if it were chambered for the round. Anyway, at 13 ounces, I wouldn't wanna shoot it.

My thought pattern was for the older medium frame Rugers like mine.

 

[loose cannon]

as far as cost goes if you shop your components right and reload you can shoot 158gr practice rounds for $6 a box.

id buy my defense rounds(158gr lswchp +p)and make my practice ammo and get good with a snub 642 and a 4" 64 for hd.

 

[MCgunner]

as far as cost goes if you shop your components right and reload you can shoot 158gr practice rounds for $6 a box.

More like $3 a box if you get free lead and cast your own...

 

[kimberdad]

When I bought my wife a pistol for PD, a revolver was the choice for us. Uncomplicated and easy to use. After testing a 38 spcl. and a 357 mag. she chose the 38. The reason, recoil. She did not like the recoil of the magnum. I'd rather her carry a weapon she was not afraid to fire, than one she was apprehensive of when firing it. I don't think she's underarmed when carrying a 38spcl, it has been a proven stopper for decades.

 

[Confederate]

There are a number of reasons, some of which have been mentioned. They include: 1) ensuring that magnums cannot be used, either because of regulations or to keep them from harming the gun; and 2) for accuracy, as magnum chambers are a bit more elongated and can be slightly more inaccurate (though not much).

That's pretty much it. One of my best magnums is a Ruger Speed-Six .38 that was rechambered to .357. It was rethroated perfectly, which makes it extraordinarily accurate. (If I could have bought several guns that way and alterered them, it would have been great.)

 

[roaddog28]

I am very fond of my 38s, particularly this one,



Smith 10-8, more accurate than I can, and with the 158gr LSWCHP+P ammo, I stand confident of it's abilities.

Ditto on that. The model 10. "Everything you need and don't need". Simple and effective. My only other simple and effective revolver is my pre-15 combat masterpiece. I have 357s but you don't need them for SD if you have either of the revolvers I mentioned.
Thanks,
roaddog28

 

[roaddog28]

I am very fond of my 38s, particularly this one,



Smith 10-8, more accurate than I can, and with the 158gr LSWCHP+P ammo, I stand confident of it's abilities.

Ditto on that. The model 10. "Everything you need and don't need". Simple and effective. My only other simple and effective revolver is my pre-15 combat masterpiece. I have 357s but you don't need them for SD if you have either of the revolvers I mentioned.
Thanks,
roaddog28

 

[roaddog28]

I am very fond of my 38s, particularly this one,



Smith 10-8, more accurate than I can, and with the 158gr LSWCHP+P ammo, I stand confident of it's abilities.

Ditto on that. The model 10. "Everything you need and nothing you don't need". Simple and effective. My only other simple and effective revolver is my pre-15 combat masterpiece. I have 357s but you don't need them for SD if you have either of the revolvers I mentioned.
Thanks,
roaddog28

 

[cane]

When I joined law enforcement in 1984 with a county sheriff's office I was issued a S&W model 65 in .357 magmum. When I left for a city department I was issued a S&W model 64 in .38 Special. When I asked "why?" I was told that we didn't need the more powerful load in the city.

 

[nulfisin]

If -- and I say if -- you aren't going to shoot 357s, why in the world would you burden yourself with the extra weight and expense of a 357. I happen to like the magnum and shoot it frequently; I've also shot a wild pig with that round. But I do so out of a 6-inch GP 100 that weighs about three pounds. Recoil is no problem, but that's not a gun that can be carried anywhere I'd normally go.

 

[exdetsgt]

Back in the day, when I was a deputy sheriff in California, we carried pencil-barrel Model 10's with either 4 or 6" barrels; some carried Combat Masterpieces. Detectives carried either Model 36 Chiefs Specials or Colt Detective Specials. All of the aforementioned were .38 Specials. These guns got the job done. No complaints. I still carry my Chiefs Special most every day. Is it heavier than an alloy snubby? Sure, but I'm used to it, and more importantly it doesn't hurt to shoot it and that translates into better shot placement.

 

[armsmaster270]

When I went on Sacramento P.D. you had to provide everything but the badge and callbox key. Later they issued the model 15 4" and you could carry your own if it was on the approved brand list.