JimGnitecki
Member
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2010
- Messages
- 1,258
I am trying to learn how to shoot my Pedersoli .45-70 Sharps replica rifle with CONSISTENCY, and am having a bit of trouble.
I am shooting 405g RNFP commercially cast bullets, powered by 25.5g of 5744 ("middle of the load table" load), with a muzzle velocity of 1330 fps. This was determined via ladder testing to-date to be the apparent 405g bullet combination this rifle likes. I am mentioning that the rifle is also "scoped" via a semi-authentic full barrel length 6x scope from Leatherwood Hi-Lux that is excellently bright, so my sight picture is unaffected by an inherited degree of macular degeneration at my age. Because I am doing ladder testing, I am also shooting from the (concrete) bench with a Caldwell Rock Junior bag/tripod under the 1" diameter barrel, immediately in front of (not touching) the for-end of the stock.
I intend to end up shooting at up to 600 yards, and with 485 and 500g bullets, but am testing via firing 3-shot groups at 100 yards, and with this load, in the short term because:
- I am not yet quite set up for casting the 485 and 500g bullets needed for longer ranges up to 600 yards
- I don't yet have the sighting scope I need to see bullet holes at longer ranges (scope should arrive mid-August). With the combination of my binoculars and the rifle scope, 100 yards is the limit for seeing the bullet holes.
I am getting inconsistent results.
Sometimes, 2 of the 3 shots will be either within 1/2" or almost on top of each other, with a 3rd shot stretching the group to 3/4" or 7/8". Sometimes, the 3-shot groups are 1.5". But most of the time the 3-shot groups range around 2" to 2/14".
My handloads are all pretty consistent: cases trimmed to same length within .002", bullet weight / diameter / length all consistently tight, COAL consistent to within .0025" even with cast bullets, all cartridges "crimped" back to "zero" crimp via Lee Factory Crimp Die after bullet seating (since this is a single shot rifle), etc.
I also shoot my other rifle, a modern 6.5 Creedmoor with high power scope, with an average attained 3-shot grouping of 0.25 MOA at 300 yards when I do my part, which seems to be much of the time with that rifle.
So, I am thinking the problem is my position and/or hold on the Pedersoli buffalo rifle.
I have noticed that the 45-70 Pedersoli kicks a LOT harder on recoil than the modern 6.5 Creedmoor does with its muzzle brake and MDT XRS chassis. I'm needing to use TWO recoil reducers with the Pedersoli - I have a leather buttstock with enclosed foam on the Pedersoli, AND use a Past shoulder-mounted recoil pad. Here is a photo of the rifle showing its geometry:
For comparison, here is my other, "modern", rifle:
Note how low the buttstock on the Pedersoli is compared to the modern rifle. I notice that I can get my face low enough for a proper sight picture through the scope on the Pedersoli a LOT easier than I can on the modern rifle. My best buddy has pointed out that the butt stock on the Pedersoli IS a lot lower relative to the rifle bore than the stock on the modern rifle. And, I do see a lot more rifle movement during the shot from the Pedersoli than I experience with the modern rifle.
I recall that controlling the rifle movement during the shot was key for me to attaining the 0.25 MOA groups with the modern rifle, and so the much larger movement of the Pedersoli makes me suspect that this might be the cause of the problem with the Pedersoli group sizes and their inconsistency. I'm obviously doing something different from shot to shot, even though I am TRYING to be consistent.
I know some of you will say I am unintentionally increasing the recoil effects of the 45-70 loads by shooting from a bench, but how can you do accurate ladder testing any other way? Well, maybe via shooting from prone, but that would make the recoil effects on my shoulder much worse, and thus invite flinching. A Power Factor of 405g x 1330 fps /1000 = 539 is pretty tough on a shoulder.
I know at least some of you will suggest changing over to black powder, since that gives a more "spread out over time" recoil impulse, which would probably help, but I don't want to shoot "Holy Grail" black powder for various sinful reasons.
Those of you who have experience shooting "buffalo" rifles (Sharps and Rolling Block replicas basically, with either smokeless or black powder: Can you offer some pointers on how to best position myself with the rifle, and how best to hold it for best accuracy results?
Jim G
I am shooting 405g RNFP commercially cast bullets, powered by 25.5g of 5744 ("middle of the load table" load), with a muzzle velocity of 1330 fps. This was determined via ladder testing to-date to be the apparent 405g bullet combination this rifle likes. I am mentioning that the rifle is also "scoped" via a semi-authentic full barrel length 6x scope from Leatherwood Hi-Lux that is excellently bright, so my sight picture is unaffected by an inherited degree of macular degeneration at my age. Because I am doing ladder testing, I am also shooting from the (concrete) bench with a Caldwell Rock Junior bag/tripod under the 1" diameter barrel, immediately in front of (not touching) the for-end of the stock.
I intend to end up shooting at up to 600 yards, and with 485 and 500g bullets, but am testing via firing 3-shot groups at 100 yards, and with this load, in the short term because:
- I am not yet quite set up for casting the 485 and 500g bullets needed for longer ranges up to 600 yards
- I don't yet have the sighting scope I need to see bullet holes at longer ranges (scope should arrive mid-August). With the combination of my binoculars and the rifle scope, 100 yards is the limit for seeing the bullet holes.
I am getting inconsistent results.
Sometimes, 2 of the 3 shots will be either within 1/2" or almost on top of each other, with a 3rd shot stretching the group to 3/4" or 7/8". Sometimes, the 3-shot groups are 1.5". But most of the time the 3-shot groups range around 2" to 2/14".
My handloads are all pretty consistent: cases trimmed to same length within .002", bullet weight / diameter / length all consistently tight, COAL consistent to within .0025" even with cast bullets, all cartridges "crimped" back to "zero" crimp via Lee Factory Crimp Die after bullet seating (since this is a single shot rifle), etc.
I also shoot my other rifle, a modern 6.5 Creedmoor with high power scope, with an average attained 3-shot grouping of 0.25 MOA at 300 yards when I do my part, which seems to be much of the time with that rifle.
So, I am thinking the problem is my position and/or hold on the Pedersoli buffalo rifle.
I have noticed that the 45-70 Pedersoli kicks a LOT harder on recoil than the modern 6.5 Creedmoor does with its muzzle brake and MDT XRS chassis. I'm needing to use TWO recoil reducers with the Pedersoli - I have a leather buttstock with enclosed foam on the Pedersoli, AND use a Past shoulder-mounted recoil pad. Here is a photo of the rifle showing its geometry:
For comparison, here is my other, "modern", rifle:
Note how low the buttstock on the Pedersoli is compared to the modern rifle. I notice that I can get my face low enough for a proper sight picture through the scope on the Pedersoli a LOT easier than I can on the modern rifle. My best buddy has pointed out that the butt stock on the Pedersoli IS a lot lower relative to the rifle bore than the stock on the modern rifle. And, I do see a lot more rifle movement during the shot from the Pedersoli than I experience with the modern rifle.
I recall that controlling the rifle movement during the shot was key for me to attaining the 0.25 MOA groups with the modern rifle, and so the much larger movement of the Pedersoli makes me suspect that this might be the cause of the problem with the Pedersoli group sizes and their inconsistency. I'm obviously doing something different from shot to shot, even though I am TRYING to be consistent.
I know some of you will say I am unintentionally increasing the recoil effects of the 45-70 loads by shooting from a bench, but how can you do accurate ladder testing any other way? Well, maybe via shooting from prone, but that would make the recoil effects on my shoulder much worse, and thus invite flinching. A Power Factor of 405g x 1330 fps /1000 = 539 is pretty tough on a shoulder.
I know at least some of you will suggest changing over to black powder, since that gives a more "spread out over time" recoil impulse, which would probably help, but I don't want to shoot "Holy Grail" black powder for various sinful reasons.
Those of you who have experience shooting "buffalo" rifles (Sharps and Rolling Block replicas basically, with either smokeless or black powder: Can you offer some pointers on how to best position myself with the rifle, and how best to hold it for best accuracy results?
Jim G
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