I also had this problem with tightgroup awhile back I was using spp but when I went to magnum primers i didn't have any squibs. But as things are now I am down to a 1,000 magnum primers so I will save them for the .357/H110 loads.
Titegroup powder
- Thread starter thunderbyrd
- Start date
- Status
I also had this problem with tightgroup awhile back I was using spp but when I went to magnum primers i didn't have any squibs. But as things are now I am down to a 1,000 magnum primers so I will save them for the .357/H110 loads.
tightgroup tiger
Member
I use a lot of Titegroup, always have. I have tried it in .357mag and it does make a decent lighter load but it isn't my first, second, or third choice for that caliber.
I like to keep it up close and personal with the primer so calibers like 9mm and .327FM are where it gets used the most.
I've shot tightgroup in about every pistol caliber I own and at present I only use it for 9mm and .327fm target loads.
I like to keep my case fill up higher than Titegroup allows in the larger cases
.
My go to recipe for 9mm is maximum load of Titegroup (4.1gr) with a 124gr bullet at 1.125 for everything but Round nose which get 1.130" OAL.
If I want more power than that I use BE-86 at 5.3-5.5 grs. That is also an accurate load but not a lot of fun to shoot in sub compacts.
But it is nice to know Titegroup will work, and to have recipes I've worked up for Titegroup in all the calibers I shoot.
I like to keep it up close and personal with the primer so calibers like 9mm and .327FM are where it gets used the most.
I have to agree with that.
I've shot tightgroup in about every pistol caliber I own and at present I only use it for 9mm and .327fm target loads.
I like to keep my case fill up higher than Titegroup allows in the larger cases
.
My go to recipe for 9mm is maximum load of Titegroup (4.1gr) with a 124gr bullet at 1.125 for everything but Round nose which get 1.130" OAL.
If I want more power than that I use BE-86 at 5.3-5.5 grs. That is also an accurate load but not a lot of fun to shoot in sub compacts.
But it is nice to know Titegroup will work, and to have recipes I've worked up for Titegroup in all the calibers I shoot.
What I use in .357 Mag.
Light Plinker/Target loads. A 158 and WST or Competition
Medium Power. A 158 and BE-86
Full Power. A 158 and 2400
There are many more combinations that work quite well.
My lots of AA#9 shoot exceeding well in the 357 Magnum and 44 Magnum. It is full charge, high pressure only powder as I have tried cutting the charge and it did not do well. For me, the greatest problem I have had with #9 is with my kegs, the powder is like a grit. And it rolls out of the powder bar on a Dillion 550B and jams it. I don't know if that was rectified later, but, I decided to stick with 2400 for magnum loads in the 357 and 44.
My lot of AA#5 dispenses and shoots well in the 45 ACP, but I decided to use that keg up and go over to Bullseye powder.
I think one of the problems Accurate Arms has had, is too many powder suppliers. Their powders vary significantly and cause a lot of issues when they change vendors. One lot of AA2520 was so dusty it clogged the 223 powder horn on my Dillion 550B. That caused very low velocity shots in the 223 at 600 yards. Was completely missing the target, hitting the berm, and had no idea what was going on. Later, pulled bullets, weighed charges, and guess what, huge powder charge variance. Other lots, the powder balls were larger, and not dusty, obviously a vendor difference. It sure will make someone walk to a different powder maker.
someguy2800
Member
What do you use #7 in? I have used #5 in 9mm with good success and #9 is my top performer in 44 mag, but I have 2 lbs of #7 that I have never gotten to work to my satisfaction. I have tried it in 357, 44, and 9mm and I can never really get complete combustion with it. In 357 on two occassions it failed to ignite completely and the primer left the bullet jammed in the forcing cone.
JJFitch
Member
First of all, use only published data! (Makes the lawyers happy!)
The keyword here is "MAGNUM"!
Use PUBLISHED magnum powder recipes to achieve magnum performance i.e. 158 grain @+1150 FPS!
To achieve these velocities in the .357 magnum cases requires S-L-O-W burning powder to stay within the max pressures. W296, H110 and A2400 are magnum pistol powders.
When loading for non-magnum performance in .357 cases use recipes exactly! Some powders peek very rapidly and will "kaboom" with just minor changes in load, COL and if the bullet is "set back" during recoil!
HTG a very fast powder and reaches max pressure before reaching the velocity for the above magnum recipe!
I general, smaller cases and lighter bullets equals "Faster" powders! Larger cases, heavier bullets equals "Slower" powders!
Of course there are no hard fast rules.
Yes, some of this was covered in previous posts! Yes, I'm a little OCD! Words do mean things and people are referring to things like ".357/44 Mag load" when the load is clearly not a MAGNUM load!
Smiles,
The keyword here is "MAGNUM"!
Use PUBLISHED magnum powder recipes to achieve magnum performance i.e. 158 grain @+1150 FPS!
To achieve these velocities in the .357 magnum cases requires S-L-O-W burning powder to stay within the max pressures. W296, H110 and A2400 are magnum pistol powders.
When loading for non-magnum performance in .357 cases use recipes exactly! Some powders peek very rapidly and will "kaboom" with just minor changes in load, COL and if the bullet is "set back" during recoil!
HTG a very fast powder and reaches max pressure before reaching the velocity for the above magnum recipe!
I general, smaller cases and lighter bullets equals "Faster" powders! Larger cases, heavier bullets equals "Slower" powders!
Of course there are no hard fast rules.
Yes, some of this was covered in previous posts! Yes, I'm a little OCD! Words do mean things and people are referring to things like ".357/44 Mag load" when the load is clearly not a MAGNUM load!
Smiles,
GeoDudeFlorida
Member
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2020
- Messages
- 11,135
No criticism intended but, it's only been around since 2002/03 so how long is "always"?
TiteGroup is good powder but it doesn't have the long histories of Bullseye or Red Dot (ca. 1898 and 1935, respectively). That's one of the reasons I suggest caution with TG and other new powders. The test of time is the best test. Be cautious with anything that goes boom and has only been around as long as your newest pair of socks.
Bazoo
Member
I can't remember if I've used titegroup in 357 magnum or not. It's been 6 years or so since I had any. At the time, I worked with it in 45 auto and 38 special, and likely light 357 magnum. I had no complaints and would gladly use it again.
OP, titegroup will not get you into the magnum performance arena, but it will get you nice target and plinking loads.
Care in double charging was mentioned, and that must be considered in all loading. What I do, is this for example. I work my brass out of Tupperware tubs. So I have unsized cases in one tub, size on press, and move the case to the sized tub.
I never use loading blocks until I charge my cases. I take a primed ready to load case from its tub, charge on the powder measure, and set it in a loading block. Then after I charge all I want in that batch, or a whole block or two, I shine my light and visually inspect the powder level in each case to see if they are all the same.
Another method that avoids double charge that I use is, I use separate hands for empty cases and charged cases. I put my tub of empty brass on the right side of my measure, same as the handle on the measure. I grab a case with my right hand and transfer it to my left hand, charge with powder (left hand holding the case to the measure and right hand working the handle to throw the charge), then still with the case in my left hand, I set the charged case in a loading block to my left. This works for me, and may eventually work for you when you get a measure.
If working with dippers, I do similar. I start with my empty cases in a tub, I take one out and set it on the bench in front of me. I scoop and level the powder, using my powder funnel for a scraper to level. Put the powder funnel on top of the case and dump the powder in. Then I move that case to a loading block. I use an aluminum measuring cup for a powder well when dipping.
OP, titegroup will not get you into the magnum performance arena, but it will get you nice target and plinking loads.
Care in double charging was mentioned, and that must be considered in all loading. What I do, is this for example. I work my brass out of Tupperware tubs. So I have unsized cases in one tub, size on press, and move the case to the sized tub.
I never use loading blocks until I charge my cases. I take a primed ready to load case from its tub, charge on the powder measure, and set it in a loading block. Then after I charge all I want in that batch, or a whole block or two, I shine my light and visually inspect the powder level in each case to see if they are all the same.
Another method that avoids double charge that I use is, I use separate hands for empty cases and charged cases. I put my tub of empty brass on the right side of my measure, same as the handle on the measure. I grab a case with my right hand and transfer it to my left hand, charge with powder (left hand holding the case to the measure and right hand working the handle to throw the charge), then still with the case in my left hand, I set the charged case in a loading block to my left. This works for me, and may eventually work for you when you get a measure.
If working with dippers, I do similar. I start with my empty cases in a tub, I take one out and set it on the bench in front of me. I scoop and level the powder, using my powder funnel for a scraper to level. Put the powder funnel on top of the case and dump the powder in. Then I move that case to a loading block. I use an aluminum measuring cup for a powder well when dipping.
Last edited:
tightgroup tiger
Member
I should have explained earlier, My fault, I didn't start shooting 9mm until about 15 years ago. So it was always Titegroup for 9mm since then.
So for me it has been ever since I started loading 9mm, about 15 year ago.
I need to watch that, that was misleading.
GeoDudeFlorida
Member
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2020
- Messages
- 11,135
Ah! Yes, excellent! Kinda thought you weren't THAT new to this.
I have to say, I haven't found much better for 9mm Makarov, either. TG is THE go-to powder for that miserable little POS Com-Bloc pistol round. I did try No.2 and Bullseye and recently tried Ramshot Competition (basically, anytime I use a fast power I try RComp just to see how it performs) but TG is it and an excellent choice for LRN in 9mm.
I was under the impression the OP got TG because it was all that was available? Even so, it's a GOOD powder for any low-density fill application like the 9mm's (Kurz, Makarov or Luger) and .38Spl. Magnum, yes, but I REALLY hope the OP tries it with caution and pays attention to the advice to watch charging carefully (always!) and choose their projectiles carefully. Make sure to match the USE to the load.
Like said, Bullseye is faster than TG. So is 700X. But you don't see the glaring warnings about either of them because they've been around longer and more people know more about them. Reams have been written about loading with Bullseye so nobody's skeered of it. They should be.
tightgroup tiger
Member
TiteGroup is good powder but it doesn't have the long histories of Bullseye or Red Dot (ca. 1898 and 1935, respectively). That's one of the reasons I suggest caution with TG and other new powders. The test of time is the best test. Be cautious with anything that goes boom and has only been around as long as your newest pair of socks.
It is very simular to Bullseye and Red Dot so you have to admit that people that are used to using Bullseye and Red Dot should be right at home with it.
With new reloaders I think the warning should be "all fast burning powders", since Bullseye and Red Dot are just as dangerous for double charges as Titegroup or any other fast burning powder.
That would be more accurate than just singling out Titegroup and letting all the new shooters think that Bullseye is ok when it is Titegroup's mirror image.
tightgroup tiger
Member
I completely agree.
someguy2800
Member
In terms of burn rate tightgroup is similar to bullseye, red dot, 700x, ect... but in terms of composition it is very very different being a ball powder with a very high nitroglycerin content. In my experience flake powders are pretty stable and predictable, but ball powders can do some weird stuff in terms of temperatures, air volume in the case, and very non linear pressure curves with increasing charge weights. I use a lot of ball powders so I am not trying to sound alarmist, but its something to be aware of. For example I have a 9mm AR15 that can from time to time cause a bullet to get pushed into the case. For that reason I won't use tightgroup or other super fast burning powders in that gun because there is a high potential for that to result in an overpressure. I prefer loading something that is closer to a compressed load like power pistol in that gun. No problem with it at all though in a softer cycling gun or a revolver.
Three points you need to remember: 1) No one can publish all the recipes available for all powders. Lyman likes to publish ones that are best suited for certain bullets. 2) Check the Hodgdon internet site and you will find all sorts of recipes for Titegroup and .357 mag.
It's best to check several sources because private listings can prefer some powder manufacturers over others.
It's best to check several sources because private listings can prefer some powder manufacturers over others.
deadeye dick
Member
My loading procedure is; raw clean cases in plastic bowl, spray with one shot, size and prime on my Lee classic turret used single stage. Place in loading block primers up. next charge the cases being very careful not to double charge. No distractions at this point. Inspect all cases than seat bullets. If i have to handle a charged case for any reason i dump the powder in the hopper tap the case face down to make sure there is no powder in it than recharge. Works for me, never pulled a double.
Then it would be an excellent powder for snubbies?
Depends on how you look at it, but the powder that gives the most speed from a long barrel will give the most speed from a short barrel as well.
Looking for less flash? Use a powder with flash retardant, but yea, TG should make a nice light plinker for any barrel length.
Looking for less flash? Use a powder with flash retardant, but yea, TG should make a nice light plinker for any barrel length.
Really?
If there were a best powder then there wouldn't be such a variety of powders out there, there would only be the one best.
What is your end goal? What are you loading for? Will these be self defense rounds, hunting, target? What you intend to do determines which power because some will be better for hunting and some better for target for example.
Titegroup is one of the first powders I found and started loading 9mm. I found that it does match its name, I am able to get very tight groups with it. It is a fast burning powder and has a "snappy" feel, so while I did get tight groups initially, after a few mags in my semi 9mm my hand/arm/wrist would get a little fatigued and my groupings would get larger. Trying a powder like 700x or unique I didn't get quite as tight as grouping as my initial Titegroup shots but I was able to shoot more rounds over a longer period of time without the grouping getting wider, so I was more consistent. So, while that is not a 357 example I use it to illustrate the point that there isn't a best powder. If I want to make a good first impression at the range then I'll use my titegroup loads. If I want to spend more than an hour at the range shooting I'll use my Unique loads, here each has its own best for me.
Those powders like titegroup and unique typically fall in the target purpose. You don't need magnum speed/power to poke holes in paper. So those could be a best for that purpose, if that's your intent.
My 357 I wanted to try handgun hunting because my farm has a good bit of tree coverage and is on top of a mountain so even when rifle hunting I'm not going to try for long rage shots due to not having a clear path or potential to go over the next mountaintop. So I want to see if handgun might work better at the closer ranges. So taking into a account a different purpose the best for hunting is more likely going to be magnum powders. With the shortages I had to take what I could find. I found some Win296 and Lil'gun first. Got between 1300-1400 fps and decent groupings with those.
Then found some Accurate #9 and worked up a load and was surprised that at max load I got almost the exact same results as their manual, they published 1367fps average and I got 1364fps average. While fps isn't the only important metric I had never matched a published load that close before. I'm still testing though so as to find my best.
Last edited:
thunderbyrd
Member
I think I am only interested in target shooting.
thunderbyrd
Member
I bought titegroup because it seemed to very versatile and it was cheaper than others that were available. I looked at comments on it and saw it was being used for 38, 9mm and 45 acp and those are the ones I'm interested in most. But several users mentioned 357, too. When I didn't see it in the manual, that seemed strange.
AJC1
Member
Honestly I would say 2400 and we could fight all day why or why not. If I could only have one forever pistol, lever gun or single shot that would be it. There are always several good answers and if you cant find or get 2400 that answer does you zero good.
- Status
