To my fellow gamers out here...

[Hawk]

Nope. No connection.

If there was, I'd suspect the "role playing" games back in the 50s and '60s (we called it "cops and robbers") would have lead to wholesale bloodshed.

It didn't.

Blaming vid games for violence is no different than blaming Mickey D's for obesity, the horse track for one's gambling addiction or Twinkies for diabetes. There is a difference between fantasy and reality and murder is wrong. Somehow, that's gotten harder to teach but I'm at a loss to hazard a guess as to why.

 

[imas]

When ever ninjas attack I go into bullet time. I can kill atleast six of them before the first casing hits the ground. And where did I learn this critical shooting skill? Video games.

 

[lamazza]

I play America's Army every night. It helps me to move more slowly and be aware of surroundings. Aiming and shot placement. I love BF2 but there is no reality in that game at all.

 

[1911JMB]

I'll take the less popular route and agree with David Grossman that irrefutable statistics prove that violent videogames are dangerous when you expose young kids to them.

 

[LiquidTension]

If video games translated to real world skillz, I'd be a master ninja after the time I put into Ninja Gaiden Black. Oh, and a professional race car driver from playing Gran Tourismo (with the Driving Force Pro wheel).

 

[DevLcL]

Allz I gots to say is I love me my M1 Carbine in Call of Duty 2...and me real-world M1 is equally cool.

On a more serious note: If your a gamer and a shooter, then you must check out Americas Army if you havn't already. You have to earn the right to use each weapon and its NOT easy to kill. In fact it's much easier to die... If any game is even close to realistic, it's this one.

-Dev

 

[Chrontius]

Dunno where I can find a $7000 relatavistic one-man rocketship with anti-battleship lasers and a bottemless supply of formation-killer Macross missiles with 5km worth of guided pound-them-from-orbit might on *this* planet. Anyone know when the next shuttle leaves for the wormhole?

 

[cracked butt]

If anything, a person can learn a bit of patience and common sense pays off.

Do common sense things like reload behind cover, move carefully, constantly checking behind you, don't run and gun like the hoardes of rambo-wannabes who are cannon fodder, and try not to be predictable and you'll be better than 99% of the players you encounter, though you'll get accused of hacking and cheating alot.

 

[SomeKid]

CB,

Me and a bud of mine did that a lot on MechWarrior 3. We not only got accused of hacking and whatnot (because we were good), but we actually had people booting us from their games when they hosted because they hated us so much.

Back to guns though.

There were some games like Operation Flashpoint that had some very realistic parts, but I was also hinting at something else. Even the most realistic (in terms of how hard to survive if the situation was real) game has a simple drawback. You are using a mouse and keyboard to play a game.

Has anyone here every tried going to the range, and lining up your sights using a mouse? I bet it didn't work to well. On top of that, recoil is another factor. When they talk about being trained on these games, they don't factor in recoil. They don't consider how tired a mans arms would get if he held a loaded Kalashnikov out and aimed for hours on end, nor the weight from just carrying the weapons. (Max Payne for example. The guy could have outiftted a few squads with everything he carried.)

Jamis notes another pertinent point. I certainly would not pull the crazy stunts I do in PC games IRL. (Unless I was the guy in PainKiller. He didn't have a great choice.) F.E.A.R. is a nice example. Frankly, if I find myself there, I am leaving.

 

[RyanM]

As someone who mostly played adventure games as well as first person shooters, games taught me the following.

People don't react at all if you stroll right in their front door and take everything that's not nailed down.
If it's possible to take something, take it, because you'll need it for something later.
With many guns, you only need to step on ammunition to reload them.
Anyone can easily cart 10 or 20 guns around, but still run about 30 miles per hour and jump 6 feet in the air.
Avoid ladders, they're deadly!

 

[Manedwolf]

The games are patently unrealistic for the most part. In many, for some reason, brass ejects out the LEFT side of the gun and into your point-of-view face. That always makes me flinch involuntarily, thinking "hot!!!"...

One I'll make exception for if you like cowboy-action stuff is Red Dead Revolver. That's literally a valentine to Sergio Leone westerns. It's even got a Ennio Morricone soundtrack!

 

[50caliber123]

One thing that I learned from videogames that effects me in the real world is better hand-eye coordination. I'm fairly used to surprises when driving, and always on my guard.

 

[beaucoup ammo]

Grand Tourismo4..Outstanding Game!

Get all of your licenses first. You'll be happy you got it over with in the long run, and it will also teach you how to drive within the game's ultra-realistic physics system.

Don't be in a rush to get the fastest or best cars in the game. I managed to get one of the three fastest cars in the game early on, and while it was fun to drive, when you don't have any better cars to unlock, you lose a lot of your incentive to play the game.

Buy cars you can use in a lot of races. Because almost every Championship you win gives you a new car, you can use those for specific engine-type or dealer races. It really sucks when you spend $250,000 on a brand new car and can only enter it in three or four races.

Find a car you like in real life and drive it in the game. I bought a top-of-the-line Mercedes-Benz as one of my first cars, and it was so cool to drive because it was a real car, and I could pick it out if I saw one on the street.

HAVE FUN!

 

[AndyC]

The games are patently unrealistic for the most part. In many, for some reason, brass ejects out the LEFT side of the gun and into your point-of-view face. That always makes me flinch involuntarily, thinking "hot!!!"...

I don't know about other games, but I do know that in Counterstrike the designer, Gooseman, is left-handed and decided to mirror-image the weapons to suit himself.

 

[VirgilCaine]

I've been unpleasantly startled/killed more times in S3 than I care to remember. It didn't teach me about firearms, but it's a great reminder of self-preservational tactics, situational awareness, and patience. Even as a game it can be unsettlingly creepy realizing how vulnerable you can be in those scenarios.

I learned that from Resident Evil. Always check the closets.

And always carry something bigger than 9mm.

 

[Justin]

Grossman spins a good soundbite, but his "studies" have been largely discredited.

Also, based on reading what he's written, I honestly have to question how much firsthand experience he has with either video games or firearms.

His attempt to spin the actions of Harris & Klebold or Michael Carneal into something that they would have been incapable of pulling off without having first played video games is patently absurd.

And then there's the part where he advocates restrictions on the 1st and 2nd amendments...

 

[Correia]

Gentlemen, I've long been an advocate in favor of games. I've argued that games don't cause violence many times on this forum.

But now I need to change my tune. Games do cause violence. Games do cause uncontrollable rage. I've seen the light and have changed my tune. I now have first hand experience.

Ghost Recon II has filled me with uncontrollable RAGE!!!! I absolutely hate this game. Yes, I'm ready to kill. Kill the designers of this damn thing. I loved the first one. Smart, tactical shooter, good use of strategy. The second one? A half rate, dumbed down action game, with almost no strategy, except go straight forward, where the same 3 badguys spawn over and over and over. No real tactics. And the stupid blooming reticle makes it so the super dooper ghost that you're playing shoots worse than any entry level 3gunner. The biggest, most asinine, waste of $20 I've ever plopped down on a game. It isn't fun. It isn't fun at all. And it ticks me off becaue the first one was one of my favorites.

So I'm now siding with Dave Grossman. Video games have prepared me to kill.

 

[iapetus]

There is one acrade game I've played (Ghost Squad, I think), where you have a light "rifle", complete with proper butt-stock, iron (well, plastic) sights, single/burst/full auto selector switch. I found my previous experience with a gallery rifle helped a lot with that, in terms of how to hold and aim the gun.

I've tried other light-gun arcade games (mostly with "pistols", and one - one of the House of the Deads - with shotguns), but was hopeless with them. Although maybe that's because I've only used rifles, not pistols or shotguns.


I went paintballing a coubple of weeks ago, and tried to make use of my real gun experience, but it didn't help in the slightest. Butt (air cylinder) into you shoulder - no, its in completely the wrong position relative to the rest of the gun. Line up the sights? No - the magazine is in the way. Get a new gun with the hopper to the side and line up the sights? No - the paint ball lands half way between me and my target.

In this case, I ended up resorting to Unreal Tounament 2003 tactics (Rush in like a maniac and blast them with the flak cannon, I mean paintball gun at close range). So video game training helped there.

But I've never found video games useful for real shooting. (Although I've never done anything remotely like combat shooting, so there isn't really any skills overlap anyway).


Although I must say (and I realise I may be straying into risky political subjects), that based on my experience with Command & Conquer and Civilization, when I first heard Rumsfeld's strategy for conquering Iraq with minimal troops, pretty much my first thought was "That's the sort of strategy I might use - if I'm able to save beforehand and keep reloading until I've got the desired result".

 

[ezypikns]

It has absolutely no value at all.

But please don't take away my COD2. It's like going back to my little kid days when we played "Army" in the back yard......but with grease guns, Garands, BAR's, and other fun stuff.

 

[David N]

Yes, I think I learn from games.

I've never served in the armed forces. It took me a long time to complete the first mission in Tom Clancy's "Ghost Recon". I learned about things like crouching and constant awareness. No, playing a PC game won't make me any better with a real gun but it will help me learn tactics.

 

[Stiletto Null]

Like realism? Try Red Orchestra. Just give it a few hours to grow on you.

Anyway, no, I do not feel that games taught me anything about guns other than "magazine goes here".

 

[Gun_nut]

i learned in bf2 to use a parachute and dont shhot much at people on the ground from a parachute....

 

[Manedwolf]

As to the brass out of the left side of the gun...here's a screenshot for "Black". Wouldn't that make you flinch?

http://img.gamespot.com/gamespot/images/2006/052/reviews/920890_20060222_screen002.jpg

 

[Arkady]

Battlefield 2 has taught me plenty of real world skills...
1.) Yes, you CAN charge a machinegun nest with an M9 and win. Especially if you do it from the front... they never expect that one.
2.) I can run just as fast with a PKM as the guy with the MP5. In fact, it works just as well in close quarters.
3.) Take a headshot from a mounted .50? Don't worry, the medic will be along to revive you in a second. It doesn't matter which medic, they make up half of your team, and they can heal anything. Instantly.
4.) Yes, every Tom, Dick, and Harry DOES have access to artillery, but hiding under a tin roof is plenty of cover.
5.) The USMC passes out C4 like candy bars, and 15 feet is plenty of clearance.
6.) Everyone has a parachute. Everyone. And you only need 10 feet to open it and coast gently the rest of the way down. Bring a friend, he can ride along on top and jump off when you hit the ground.
7.) Anti-Tank rockets? Everybody has them, and all six of the launcher tubes sit conveniently on your back and never slow you down. Or explode when hit--by a tank.
8.) I can manufacture my own ammo/grenades/c4/rockets on the spot thanks to my handy canvas bag.
9.) Not a trained medic? Not to worry, just grab that bag the last one dropped and start bringing your teammates back to life.
10.) Most importantly: everyone can drive a tank, an APC, a helicopter, or an F/A-18 at any time, without training. Just hop in and go.

~

If the things I've learned in video games translated to the real world, I would be immortal... and a Nightstalker.