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To the "AR15 for HD" Crowd

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Bobson, Dec 29, 2011.

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  1. Bobson

    Bobson Member

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    Pretty simple question.

    Which specific factory load round do you have in your AR mags when they're fulfilling the home defense role? Wondering what's the most popular, and I'm thinking it isn't bulk FMJ like the various military branches issue to the boots on the ground.

    As always, thanks for the input and any added wisdom to help me understand your choice. ;)
     
  2. CoRoMo

    CoRoMo Member

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    Heavy Hornady TAP.
     
  3. kwelz

    kwelz Member

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    75 Grain Hornady TAP.
     
  4. C-grunt

    C-grunt Member

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    55 grn Federal Tactical. Not ideal but its my duty load.
     
  5. ugaarguy

    ugaarguy Moderator Staff Member

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    Hornady TAP / TAP FPD in whatever bullet weight I can get locally. I used Federal Premium factory loaded with Nosler Ballistic Tip bullets before the TAP became cheaper & more available while the Fed Prem. went up in price at the same time.

    When I'm out at my sister's house in a rural area where the rifle may have to switch from HD to dropping a coyote or loose rottweiler before it gets to my niece or nephew I'll keep a mag full of bonded soft point in my back pocket with the ballistic tips in the rifle, or vice-verse.
     
  6. BADUNAME37

    BADUNAME37 Member

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    Anything that I can trust to go bang every time.

    With that caliber, I would certainly hate to be on the receiving end, no matter where on my body the bullet were to hit and, no matter WHAT bullet!
    :eek:
     
  7. Bobson

    Bobson Member

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    Hornady TAP stands out right away. Why do you folks prefer that? First I've heard of it, actually.
     
  8. Rshooter

    Rshooter Member

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    I would advise against bulk FMJ though I have several magazines of this. A TAP is a round designed for police and not the military. It is supposed to help with over penetration and ricochets. It might be more expensive but the advantages outweigh the price difference if you ever need to use your rifle for HD.
     
  9. SpeedAKL

    SpeedAKL Member

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    FMJ is generally a poor choice for HD due to over-penetration concerns and reduced wounding capability (when compared vs. modern controlled-expansion bullets). The most popular .223/5.56mm bullets, 55- and 62-grain FMJ, rely on yawing/fragmentation in soft tissue to maximize stopping power. Yawing/fragmentation only occurs above a certain velocity, hence some concerns being raised over downrange stopping power particularly when fired from carbine-length barrels. As an additional complication, the 62-grain SS109 bullet in the military's M855 ammo is equipped with a steel core designed to aid downrange penetration. This is fine for punching through military-grade body armor but some military reports have indicated that it can zoom right through soft tissue before significant fragmentation occurs.

    So why does the military use FMJ? Treaty considerations. Expanding bullets are prohibited under either the Hague or Geneva conventions (not sure which). Heavier 77-grain Sierra Match King bullets are issued on a limited basis as Mk.262 ammunition. These apparently fragment quicker than M855 and retain more energy downrange.

    Rounds like Hornady TAP use heavy bullets coupled with a controlled-expansion soft-point bullet. The effect on soft tissue is similar to modern hunting ammunition and far more potent than FMJ. They are also less able to penetrate hardened barriers. TAP is the most popular brand but several others exist. Some have also used varmint-hunting ammo for defense. Varmint rounds typically use light bullets (<=55 grn) designed for rapid-expansion (i,e. vaporizing p-dogs).

    Keep in mind that heavier bullets require a faster barrel twist rate to maximize their accuracy. 1:7 is a good bet.
     
  10. mavracer

    mavracer Member

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    Lake City M855
     
  11. Water-Man

    Water-Man Member

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    Hornady 5.56 75gr. BTHP T2 TAP 8126N
     
  12. CoRoMo

    CoRoMo Member

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    Because the 'T' stands for Tactical.






    But seriously, I use it because the Zombie stuff is still hard to find.






    Still kidding. What SpeedAKL said.
     
  13. Zach S

    Zach S Member

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    75 grain TAP. At HD distances, a 75gr bullet fired from 1:7 bbl wont be any more accurate than one fired from a 1:9.

    If you have a 1:9 bbl, you wont notice your groups open up with the 75 pills until the targets are out past HD distances. Although 1:7 is preferred for the heavier rounds, some 1:9 bbls shoot it very well.
     
  14. Skribs

    Skribs Member

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    Is the .223 TAP better than the 5.56 rounds hornady has?
     
  15. rjrivero

    rjrivero Member

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    The .223 is loaded to Rem .223 pressures and the 5.56 is loaded to Nato pressures.

    Better, at typical HD range, is a matter of opinion. Personally, I really like Nosler Partition bullets in this little caliber. I think they are 60gr but they hit hogs HARD.

    I guess I'm just not tactical enough to use TAP.....(Hangs head in shame.)
     
  16. Bobson

    Bobson Member

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    Meaning one has higher muzzle and extended velocities than the other? Which is the higher pressure round (and I assume capable of higher velocities)?
     
  17. rjrivero

    rjrivero Member

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    NATO is higher pressure, therefore higher velocity. 62000 psi in 5.56 Nato vs. 55,000 psi for .223 Rem.
     
  18. Bartholomew Roberts

    Bartholomew Roberts Moderator Emeritus

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    I use Hornady TAP 55gr (their VMAX round) or Hornady/Black Hills loads of their 75gr BTHP. The reason I use the Hornady bulllets is because I feel confident they will behave the way they have in dozens of gel shots I've seen and because intermediate barriers are not a big concern for me at home.
     
  19. wnycollector

    wnycollector Member

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    I have my BCM middy loaded with Privi 75gr OTM. After doing some reading over at ARFCOM I ran across Molon's GREAT post on Prvi ammo. Here is an excerpt from that post.

    Thanks to the efforts of the esteemed Dr. G.K. Roberts, we now have some excellent information on the terminal ballistic properties of the Prvi Partizan 75 grain OTM load. The same lot of Prvi Partizan 75 grain OTM ammunition that Dr. Roberts used in testing had a nearly identical velocity when I chronographed it from a 16" Colt barrel as noted above.


    Privi Partizan 75 gr OTM

    Velocity: 2468 fps from a 16" 1:7” twist barrel

    penetration in bare ballistic gel: 12.6"

    neck length: 0.8”

    maximum temporary cavity: 3.2” at a depth of 4.7”

    recovered diameter: 0.36”

    recovered length: 0.15”

    recovered weight: 30.1gr

    percentage of fragmentation: 60%


    The “ballistic neck” length or initial upset depth is a critical component in evaluating the terminal ballistic properties of a round of ammunition. It is the length that the bullet travels in the body before it begins to upset (expand, yaw/fragment.) Keep in mind that on an average adult male, the surface of the heart is roughly 1.5” below the surface of the chest. Basically, the shorter the ballistic neck, the better.

    If you would like to read the whole post here is the link http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_16/4..._Prvi_Partizan_75_grain_Match_Ammunition.html
     
  20. kenken

    kenken Member

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    I have some tracers and I believe that is what I would use to 'light up' the bad guy.

    kenken
     
  21. Bobson

    Bobson Member

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    And both 5.56 NATO and .223 Rem are safe to fire from an AR15 interchangeably?

    I know there's some compatibility for the .308 Win and 7.62 NATO, but I recall hearing that it works one way, but not the other...
     
  22. rjrivero

    rjrivero Member

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    The "textbook" answer is that the 5.56 chamber will handle 5.56 and .223 without issues.

    The .223 chamber because it has a shorter leade, can cause pressure spikes with 5.56 ammo. Since the 5.56 is loaded hotter, then you end up with EVEN MORE pressure and that can lead to bad things.

    A .223 can be reamed to 5.56 dimentions and then you have no issues.
     
  23. MistWolf

    MistWolf Member

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    NATO and SAAMI pressure are not comparable as they are measured using different methods. As the velocities of the two loads are similar with the same bullet weight and case capacity is about the same, they would be similar in pressure. The difference between the 5.56x45 and the 223 Remington is that the 5.56x45 is loaded to make it's pressure and velocity safely in a chamber with a longer leade. The 223 Remington is loaded to make it's pressure and velocity safely in a chamber with a shorter leade. When fired in a 5.56x45 chamber, the 223 loses pressure and velocity
     
  24. Art Eatman

    Art Eatman Administrator Staff Member

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    Based on performance on coyotes and jackrabbits inside of 100 yards, I don't think it really matters what bullet is used. At ten to at most twenty yards, they all come apart. Over twenty yards? That's attack, not defense.
     
  25. Bartholomew Roberts

    Bartholomew Roberts Moderator Emeritus

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    The 5.56x45 loadings are going to have a higher velocity and slightly less accuracy. For home defense distances, the velocity difference isn't really an issue unless you are using an NFA-length barrel. If you are trying to extend the effective fragmentation range of 75gr Hornady out of a 14.5" barrel to 200m, then it starts making a difference.
     
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