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Troubleshoot Sunday!

Discussion in 'Gunsmithing and Repairs' started by 1911Tuner, Dec 17, 2006.

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  1. 1911Tuner

    1911Tuner Moderator Emeritus

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    Double, Double! Toil and Trouble!

    I aquired a well-worn Norinco a few months back for a 100 bucks. The owner warned me that there was an issue. (Ain't there always an issue when buyin' pigs in pokes?) Every so often, the hammer wouldn't fall when the finger was applied to the bang-switch. Racking the slide returned the gun to functional status. Okay...Easy one, I sez. Disconnect reset. Probably a hickey in the lockwork somewhere.

    So, I proceed to gut the pistol and replace the sear and disconnect while in the overhaul/refitting process. Rails peened down...slide lightly squeezed...barrel replaced...
    sear and disconnect...prepped/polished all mating parts...etc.etc. The standard fare.

    Test-fire day comes last Monday. Bangbangbang....*snick* Racked the slide...Bangbang..*snick* Hmmm. Every so often, huh?

    Scraped the disconnect slot a bit deeper in the slide, even though I couldn't hear a solid *click* when the disconnect did a reset. No joy. Scraped it a little deeper, and even lengthened it a tiny bit. No joy.

    Slide goes to full battery. Disconnect is within spec. Sear pin hole is located correctly.
    No boogers, burrs, or hickeys anywhere. Sear spring is new and correctly adjusted.
    Top of disconnect kisses air in the slot. Disconnect moves freely in its tunnel. Trigger slot
    is located correctly...but still no joy.

    Why? Why? WHY????

    Early this morning, after yet another no-joy test...I finally saw it. Took all of three minutes to correct it...plus one replaced part.

    What was it gang? Thinkin' caps on...and...GO!
     
  2. ZeSpectre

    ZeSpectre Member

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    Broken hammer spring or maybe broken trigger bar spring (that'd be hard to notice)
     
  3. 1911Tuner

    1911Tuner Moderator Emeritus

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    Spring

    ZeSpectre...Nope. Other than the disconnect failing to fully reset and slipping off the sear leg, all functions were normal.

    The pistol was overhauled, which included replacing all springs.
     
  4. jungle

    jungle Member

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    Out of spec trigger in the aft upper stirrup area allowing trigger to ride under disconnector engagement with sear legs? Short disconnector?
     
  5. 1911Tuner

    1911Tuner Moderator Emeritus

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    Trigger

    CLose, jungle...Close. :cool: Disconnect is within spec, though.
     
  6. jungle

    jungle Member

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    Slightly short lower legs on sear?
     
  7. saltydog452

    saltydog452 Member

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    jungle beat me to it. Maybe the trigger channel sending the bow assy into places where it wasn't ment to go?

    salty.
     
  8. Magnumite

    Magnumite Member

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    trigger movement was inhibited by the lug under the trigger bow stop on the grip safety
     
  9. 1911Tuner

    1911Tuner Moderator Emeritus

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    Sear?

    Jungle...Nope. The sear's hunky-dory. I'd have spotted that issue during the prep and initial assembly anyway. I always check for disconnect/sear leg interference.

    SALTY! You old dawg! You're blisterin' the monitor here! Kudos, mah fren! Gimme a little mo' detail.:cool:
     
  10. jungle

    jungle Member

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    Trigger bow/hammer strut interplay?
     
  11. 1911Tuner

    1911Tuner Moderator Emeritus

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    Bow Strut

    Jungle...Nope. Not nearly that obvious.;)
     
  12. jungle

    jungle Member

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    Strange Chinese trigger stopping short against magazine release?
     
  13. 1911Tuner

    1911Tuner Moderator Emeritus

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    Chinese Trigger

    Well...I can't argue that sometimes the Chinese can be a little unfathomable...but no. The triger wasn't interfering with the mag release. The answer lies with the trigger and disconnect interface, but not for lack of smooth.
     
  14. sm

    sm member

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    Trigger bow bent more on one side at the rear (right) causing disconnect /sear to bangbangbang.
    Remove trigger, straighten rear of bow - go to go ??
     
  15. 1911Tuner

    1911Tuner Moderator Emeritus

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    bangbangbang

    sm...Sorry. Didn't mean to imply that the gun was burst-firing. No space was intended to indicate no hesitation during the process until the *snick* happened.

    But...no. Trigger bow wasn't bent.
     
  16. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

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    If pulling the trigger won't drop the hammer when the pistol is in battery, it means the disconector is depressed, and for what ever reason can't move up when it should. It would help if I had the gun on the bench :scrutiny: but I wonder if the trigger is keeping the disconector from resetting after the previous shot? Or the legs on the sear can pivot far enough forward to catch the disconector?
     
  17. RogersPrecision

    RogersPrecision Member

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    I had this happen once with a gun I built.
    The center leaf of the sear spring was a little long. The disco would sometimes move so far down, that the spring leg contacted the flat above the bevel on the disco. Disco no risey, gat no bangy.
    :uhoh:
     
  18. 1911Tuner

    1911Tuner Moderator Emeritus

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    re:

    Fuff...The disconnect was resetting far enough to engage the sear leg, but when I pulled the trigger, it slipped off...hence the "snick" described above.

    The trigger wasn't causing it to happen. It was...>allowing<...it to happen. That's a riddle.:neener:

    Don't feel bad. It had me stumped for two complete teardowns and about an hour of head-scratchin'.

    Details at 6.:cool:
     
  19. Eagle1899

    Eagle1899 Member

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    Hammer strut out of spec causing a not so firm grip to allow it to block the grip safety?
     
  20. sm

    sm member

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    1911Tuner,
    I misunderstood.
    Don't you know you cannot shoot a plain vanilla 1911 fast unless it has cow bells and stuff hanging off it? ;)

    Channel allowed trigger bow to ride up and hit sear/disconnect.
    -Too "tall" (wide) at the rear and needed bow pinged to stretch.
    -Burr in channel - causing it to ride up - just smooth.

    Off the wall - Safety was not true, causing pivot of sear/disconnect to get out of alignment. Install in spec safety and holes lined up - true - on sear/disconnect.

    I'm trying...where is my Book on the 1911 by that guy I just went brain drain on name. He did the hand sketches , starts with "H" .

    Steve
     
  21. 1911Tuner

    1911Tuner Moderator Emeritus

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    Long Legged Spring

    Raja...Nope. This one was so well-hidden that I missed it with a mini mag light. I mean...this puppy had me stumped. The gun would fire for several rounds and stop. Rack the slide, and resume 'til the next time. I was scairt that my first defeat was gonna come in the form of a Chinese clone...and I'd have been forced to come beggin' for help. Only by the grace of the Lord's bright sunshine did I see it.

    Steve...That would probably be Ken Hallock. A man can get into deep dookey with that little book.:D
     
  22. 1911Tuner

    1911Tuner Moderator Emeritus

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    Details

    Okay...I've held ya'll hostage long enough. :evil:

    The trigger stirrup was sitting about .010 inch forward of flush with the frame abutment. The disconnect was moving too far forward during the reset function, and the upper right corner of the spade was just barely contacting the corner of the abutment. I literally had to take it out under direct sunlight to see exactly what was happening...and it revealed itself as a little shiny spot on the corner of that abutment. I had to turn the frame just at the correct angle to even see it.

    Swapped triggers for one that sits flush...used a flat jeweling file to break the corners of the abutment for a little added insurance...and the problem disappeared. A return trip to the range...(who said that I don't obsess about these things?)...and 18 magazines later, the gun was runnin' like a top.

    It's the little things that getcha. Oh! Yesssss...
     
  23. sm

    sm member

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    Ken Hallock - Thank you! Great Book!

    Well...we were in the ballpark anyway.

    As Always - much appreciated sir!

    Steve
     
  24. RogersPrecision

    RogersPrecision Member

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    Hallock.....lol
    "Hit it wiff a bigger hammer"
    "Chamfer the lug recess corners in the roof of the slide"
    "Stretch thumb and grip safeties"
    No thanks......
    :rolleyes:
     
  25. 1911Tuner

    1911Tuner Moderator Emeritus

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    Hallock

    Raja, I see you've read Hallock's little book.:D

    FWIW, Ken does many things with the "Field Expedient" approach, likely coming from having to make do with what was on hand, as many unit armorers have done through the years...and for what works whenever an original part is worn or non-functional, and the preserving the originality is the desideratum. Not the best way, but it does work well enough in certain limited circumstances.

    Now, that chamferin' of the slide lugs is where he and I part company.:rolleyes:

    Like I said...You can get into deep ca-ca with that little gunshow booklet.
     
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