Trump to Sessions: Ban Bumpstocks

[ScrapMetalSlug]

I think we should call bump stocks machine guns, and have them registered.

This would require re-opening the MG registry.

It would probably also remove most of the incentive for bump stocks to be a thing if you could have a newly made select fire rifle with $200 tax stamp.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

You said they were informed: they are, but not well-informed.

I expected this particular response.

They are well-informed. They've heard the information and the positions of those on the right...

and they flatly reject that information.

They understand the position of the 2A as a political right...as a right of self defense...they simply do not agree that that is it how it "should be."

There are, of course, exceptions to that, but that is the norm.

 

[Navy_Chief]

I expected this particular response.

They are well-informed. They've heard the information and the positions of those on the right...

and they flatly reject that information.

They understand the position of the 2A as a political right...as a right of self defense...they simply do not agree that that is it how it "should be."

There are, of course, exceptions to that, but that is the norm.

Do they also feel that the right to free speech is not how it should be, clearly the founders could not have envisioned radio, television, or the internet? How bout the 4th Amendment, 5th Amendment? If he had been illegally searched and charged with a crime he had not yet committed none of this would have happened....

Somebody need to explain to them that picking and choosing what rights are important and what rights should be taken away is touchy work that everybody is best staying away from.
Somebody also needs to teach them how to blame the person who commits an offense and not to blame the tool that they used. If his psychopath had driven a Ford F-350 into a crowd and killed 17 none of them would be talking about banning diesel engines, or pickup trucks, and they would not be calling for us to have a national conversation about the evils of car violence.....

Meanwhile in reality if the local police department and FBI branch office had actually done their jobs none of this would have happened, where is the accountability for them?

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

My last comment for the evening...

The pendulum is going to swing hard and fast very soon.

I teach high school juniors (16-17 yrs old). When that group starts to vote en masse, none of these discussion will matter. We (certainly I) like to dismiss them as "kids these days" or "tide pod eating losers," but the reality is they are informed (they call it "woke"), they have their own ideas, and they care about their future. The vast majority of them are radically leftist in their views. Everything that generations of Americans have worked for, fought for, and died for, will be thrown out the window over the next 20-30 years.

Trump's election is an aberration. We are going to see increasing liberal majorities in governments throughout America in our lifetimes. Increasing gun control measures, restrictions on personal freedoms, socialist economic and "social justice" measures are less than a generation away in our future. I very seriously doubt we have any power whatsoever to change that future.

So whatever we're going to "bargain for" or "bargain away" now, we better make it meaningful, because any laws we pass now will be repealed in the coming decades.

My last comment for the evening...

The pendulum is going to swing hard and fast very soon.

I teach high school juniors (16-17 yrs old). When that group starts to vote en masse, none of these discussion will matter. We (certainly I) like to dismiss them as "kids these days" or "tide pod eating losers," but the reality is they are informed (they call it "woke"), they have their own ideas, and they care about their future. The vast majority of them are radically leftist in their views. Everything that generations of Americans have worked for, fought for, and died for, will be thrown out the window over the next 20-30 years.

Trump's election is an aberration. We are going to see increasing liberal majorities in governments throughout America in our lifetimes. Increasing gun control measures, restrictions on personal freedoms, socialist economic and "social justice" measures are less than a generation away in our future. I very seriously doubt we have any power whatsoever to change that future.

So whatever we're going to "bargain for" or "bargain away" now, we better make it meaningful, because any laws we pass now will be repealed in the coming decades.

It has always been thus with the misanthropic youth until they have to get a job and pay for their own ungrateful spawn. Don't forget it was the Flower Children who (mostly) grew up into the self-absorbed American Psychos of the '80s.
And the official, government sanctioned indoctrination/education system of the Soviet Union certainly didn't churn out a lasting Communist-loving culture amongst their youth.
Hopefully this postmillennial generation will be forced to grow up before they damage my country too much.

The best thing you can do for them is take a kid shooting, support the NRA and the Appleseed project.

 

[Elkins45]

I expected this particular response.

They are well-informed. They've heard the information and the positions of those on the right...

and they flatly reject that information.

They understand the position of the 2A as a political right...as a right of self defense...they simply do not agree that that is it how it "should be."

There are, of course, exceptions to that, but that is the norm.

Your kids must be different than my kids. Most of the ones I talk with get their opinions directly from celebrities on Twitter and Instagram.

 

[Navy_Chief]

Your kids must be different than my kids. Most of the ones I talk with get their opinions directly from celebrities on Twitter and Instagram.

Which is why they flatly reject any ideas that they did not read in a liberal meme or a quote from a celebrity....

 

[SSN Vet]

Ee-gadz... there are only a bazillion You-Tube videos that show you how to make a bump stock for an AR. And you can swap it out with a regular stock in a matter of minutes.

All a bump fire ban is going to do is get a lot of good people caught up into unspecific regulation lingo.

Knock, knock people! It's a mental health crisis! and the headshrinkers pushing psychiatric drugs like popcorn have blood on their hands.

 

[Kaybee]

I thought with a republican house and president we would see stronger protections for the 2a. I was hoping to see some of the strongest restrictions in anti states deemed unconstitutional.

Instead what I am seeing is a whole bunch of nothing and a country gearing up to attack the 2a harder than ever before.

 

[Demi-human]

I thought with a republican house and president we would see stronger protections for the 2a. I was hoping to see some of the strongest restrictions in anti states deemed unconstitutional.

Instead what I am seeing is a whole bunch of nothing and a country gearing up to attack the 2a harder than ever before.

I was going to like this comment, but would rather agree with it instead because I dislike the fact. Please subliminally add one to your likes, thank you.

 

[DeepSouth]

I think we are all just bandying words over bump stocks. The law says no machine guns. That's the law. Move on.

Bump stocks are an example of people violating the spirit of a law while remaining in the letter of the law. They are an obvious end run around the law. They never should have been legal to begin with.

Let’s take a minute to think of the things the ATF could say were an “obvious end run around the law.“

Yes.. Bump Stocks
How about arm braces? Probably
How about the Taraus Judge? Depends on the ATF director maybe.
The Henry Mare’s Leg?
Remington 870 tac-14?
That 1911 double barrel.

Keep thinking I bet there are others. Half the guns in California were made as workarounds to their stupid laws.

The spirit of the law, as in the NFA, sucks. In order to keep the spirit of the tax on suppressors you’d have to adjust for inflation... 3,700 dollars.

That’s the spirit of the law, I much prefer the TEXT to what some group of (possibly) anti gun ATF administrators and judges say is it spirit. That is how we got a constitution that protects “rights” the signers would have found abhorrent, if not worse.

That’s a door we don’t want to open, at least I don’t want it open.. apparently trump and the NRA of people do!

 

[TTv2]

I thought with a republican house and president we would see stronger protections for the 2a. I was hoping to see some of the strongest restrictions in anti states deemed unconstitutional.

Instead what I am seeing is a whole bunch of nothing and a country gearing up to attack the 2a harder than ever before.

It's become clear that the 2nd Amendment has no allies and we need to circle the wagons and in that action, the maps will forever have to be changed.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

Let’s take a minute to think of the things the ATF could say were an “obvious end run around the law.“

Yes.. Bump Stocks
How about arm braces? Probably
How about the Taraus Judge? Depends on the ATF director maybe.
The Henry Mare’s Leg?
Remington 870 tac-14?
That 1911 double barrel.

Can you say Mossberg Shockwave? How in the world is that thing legal?

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

Can you say Mossberg Shockwave? How in the world is that thing legal?

Tannerite.....ugh.

 

[Kaybee]

Speaking of the Mossberg Shockwave that was one of the things I was hoping to see changed with a republican government. I would love to see short shortguns off the restricted list.

It is so random they are a restricted firearm. They are low capacity short range weapons. They would be great for a home defense weapon and terrible for a mass shooter and also not better than a semi auto pistol for crime either.

Why are groups not fighting things like that?

 

[D.B. Cooper]

Speaking of the Mossberg Shockwave that was one of the things I was hoping to see changed with a republican government. I would love to see short shortguns off the restricted list.

It is so random they are a restricted firearm. They are low capacity short range weapons. They would be great for a home defense weapon and terrible for a mass shooter and also not better than a semi auto pistol for crime either.

Why are groups not fighting things like that?

I think "sawed-off shotguns" got their reputation the same way the "Tommy Gun" got its reputation: gangsters in the 1920s & 30s. In its heyday, the sawed off shotgun was a formidable weapon. Easily concealed under a coat but devastating (and somewhat indiscriminate) inside, say, a bar.

 

[Elkins45]

What about the “bump board” or “bump stick?” It would be interesting to see the text of any proposed regulation to see if it focuses on the DEVICE or on the BEHAVIOR. All you really need to bumpfire a gun is a little practice, and maybe some forearm strengthening exercises. The internet is awash in videos of guys bumpfiring ARs and AKs.

Just don’t tell Nancy Pelosi, OK?

 

[SharpDog]

We are not getting suppressors out of this. Devils advocate here. “What if the Vegas shooter had a suppressor and you couldn’t hear where they shots were coming from?”
I hope we get reciprocity, armed guards in schools or cpl in present gun free zones. I hope NOT that we get an assault weapons ban and trumps out one term. Who would replace him? A Democrat? I do believe he’s doing the Nra thing and I’m cautiously optimistic watching as of now.

Well, I wasn't there, nor have I been around shootings in a setting with tall buildings with a lot of Steel, Concrete and glass, but, from what I understand, it would be hard to locate the shots by ear anyways. Of course we all know they're not silencers but actually suppressors so it's not like you wouldn't have heard the shots. Heck, they might even be EASIER to locate with less of a report, who knows.

I agree that a suppressor bill is unlikely unless we win big in some upcoming election, possibly 2020 when all of this dies down and God Willing these damn shootings stop.

 

[SharpDog]

Can you say Mossberg Shockwave? How in the world is that thing legal?

Franklin Armory Reformation

 

[D.B. Cooper]

God Willing these damn shootings stop.

These shooting aren't going to stop, and it's fantasyland wishful thinking to think so.

I could go into the reasons why I believe this, but it would derail the discussion and probably violate some forum policies.

Bottom line: we should put that thinking completely out of our minds, and move forward expecting these things to continue, if not increase, and we should continue to expect to be demonized because of it.

 

[CoalTrain49]

I think "sawed-off shotguns" got their reputation the same way the "Tommy Gun" got its reputation: gangsters in the 1920s & 30s. In its heyday, the sawed off shotgun was a formidable weapon. Easily concealed under a coat but devastating (and somewhat indiscriminate) inside, say, a bar.

Sawed-off shot guns were outlawed primarily because people were robbing banks with them. Lots of them were cut down from either single shot or sxs breach loaders. Most breach loaders can be broken down into 3 pieces, the stock/action, barrel and grip. None of the pieces would have to be longer than 16'', about the length of a stock and action. Probably how the 16" rule came about. Those 3 pieces could easily be assembled in about 5 seconds. My dad used to have one with a barrel that was about 17". Not a true sawed-of shotgun by NFA but you get the idea. He purchased it form a police auction. It was a Remington 1893 sidecocker. He used it for rattle snakes and to carry cash from a business.

NFA needs to be revised. Lots of things have changed in 84 years.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

Sawed-off shot guns were outlawed primarily because people were robbing banks with them.

And banks still get robbed.
Large sodas are banned in NYC, there are still fat people there.
Ban bump stocks and there will still be mass shootings.
It's all about government control and infringement on rights cloaked with feel good BS.

Maybe just ban all crime. A ridiculous idea following the same logic.

 

[TTv2]

I think "sawed-off shotguns" got their reputation the same way the "Tommy Gun" got its reputation: gangsters in the 1920s & 30s. In its heyday, the sawed off shotgun was a formidable weapon. Easily concealed under a coat but devastating (and somewhat indiscriminate) inside, say, a bar.

Everything that's gun related that has a reputation comes from stuff that happened almost 100 years ago. People think that if machine gun registries are opened, it's going to be Chicago Prohibition violence in the streets every day when in reality, between '34 and '86, I can't think of any shootings that involved legal and registered machine guns.

But because the mental imagery of machine guns is Italian mobsters... machine guns are essentially banned.

Sawed off shotguns are subjected to the same mental image suppressors are. Yes, short shotguns were being used for decades in the early 1900's... and times have changed. Handguns that are smaller and hold 10-15 rounds are the choice of robbers and criminals today. Short shotguns... a legal person isn't going to use a short barrel shotgun in a crime, they want it to defend their homes. Criminals, who are already prohibited persons, who have a shotgun aren't going to read the NFA and say, "Oh, it would be a crime for me to hack the barrel down and chop the stock off." They're gonna do it regardless.

At this point, the SBS and SBR laws are used to add a few years to someone's prison sentence. If the goal is to add time to a person who is convicted or pleads to a gun crime, raise the minimum prison sentence. It shouldn't matter if they used an AR, a sawed off shotgun, a musket... if they use a firearm, it should be 15 years minimum with no parole.

Today, 15 rounds of 9mm hollow points are as devastating or more devastating than 5 shots of buckshot out of a 12 gauge. I'd just like to see the barrel length requirement for Short Barrel Shotguns reduced from 18 inches to 10 inches. Keep the law that if it doesn't have a buttstock, it's a sawed off shotgun. I know I'm not going to cut the stock down, that's the part I want most on shotguns.

As for SBR's, that law is even more asinine. I'd just remove that entirely. Handguns will always be more concealable and used in crimes than a rifle with a 15 inch or shorter barrel.

 

[SilentStalker]

Just thought I would pass this along for anyone that would like to use it for reference when writing their congress critters...

http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2013/05/07/gun-homicide-rate-down-49-since-1993-peak-public-unaware/

 

[CoalTrain49]

And banks still get robbed.
Large sodas are banned in NYC, there are still fat people there.
Ban bump stocks and there will still be mass shootings.
It's all about government control and infringement on rights cloaked with feel good BS.

Maybe just ban all crime. A ridiculous idea following the same logic.

Mostly when banks get robbed these days a gun is never seen, just a note saying that they are being robbed. Hard to say if they are even armed. Some still are but if they had high IQ's they probably wouldn't be robbing banks.

The last bank that was robbed around here was by a guy who had a gun but it was never seen by the teller. He was gunned down in a parking lot as he ran from the bank after he fired a shot at a cop. The cop happened to be close by when the bank was robbed.

Some banks use plain clothes security. With that and some other devices like the silent alarm that alerts dispatch with address immediately makes banks hard targets. They didn't have that stuff in 1934. I agree, SBS and some other stuff should be taken off the roster.

Bank robbers don't usually kill people anymore. They just want the money and an opportunity to leave, which they usually get. All a weapon does anymore is get the silent alarm activated sooner.

Maybe you would like to be in a parking lot 50' from someone with an automatic weapon shooting it out with the cops. I don't think I would.

This isn't the middle east or the 1920's where everyone gets to have an automatic weapon. Some weapons need to be regulated.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

Mostly when banks get robbed these days a gun is never seen

Because of the increased penalties of armed robbery.

Maybe you would like to be in a parking lot 50' from someone with an automatic weapon shooting it out with the cops. I don't think I would.

Ban parking lots?