primer
Member
I'm curious, How many rounds do you go through without failure before you consider you gun trust worthy? For me it's at least 300 round. What are your thoughts?
Trust worthy guns
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jimmyraythomason
Member
Most manufacturing defects will show up in less than one hundred rounds(generally). Poor quality materials will usually take a little longer.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
Hard to say, for me. Never had a failure on any new gun. Or within any short time on a used gun, for that matter.
Have an old Model 12 I bought in 1973 and used for a bunch of dove hunts. The firing pin broke in 1982, but who knows how many thousand rounds had been through the gun before I bought it?
Have an old Model 12 I bought in 1973 and used for a bunch of dove hunts. The firing pin broke in 1982, but who knows how many thousand rounds had been through the gun before I bought it?
RoadkingLarry
Member
Had a few rare minor stoppages when my Kimber Custom II was new but that cleared up after a few hundred rounds. It also took me a few boxes of reloads to get my .45 ACP loads to the point where I have had 0 failures in the last 5 IDPA matches I've shot in.
So I voted 500.
So I voted 500.
Zach S
Member
I buy it, clean it, and fire it at least 1000 rounds with no cleaning, just a little bit of lube.
With the prices af ammo, that 1000 rounds is harder to get though...
With the prices af ammo, that 1000 rounds is harder to get though...
TStorm
Member
$$$
Mind you my comments are for my pocket-carry, and not one I shoot w/ IDPA, which gets a far greater workout, but carried infrequently. Models and type of carry are for another thread. I know there is no price for protection, but after reading many posts and articles on matching ammo w/ gun, I did the following:
Put 200 rounds of my typicall jacketed ball ammo through it for break-in. I went back and started through a few boxes of GoldDot to see if there were any feeding problems. Found no failures up through between 100 and 200 and stopped dropping the $$$ for the exercise. I grabbed two boxes of Hornady TAP and fount no issues either.
I've recently switched to DPX for the Barnes bullets and put two boxes through to see if any problems started to show. Nothing.
Oher than that, I get a new box of PD every six months and run the older one through the gun just to check. I probably pull this out for about 50 of range ammo every 2-3 months for practice.
Other pocket-carry guns I've used at the range did not stand up to extended shooting as a mechanical issue ammo notwithstanding. They fell apart.
Mind you my comments are for my pocket-carry, and not one I shoot w/ IDPA, which gets a far greater workout, but carried infrequently. Models and type of carry are for another thread. I know there is no price for protection, but after reading many posts and articles on matching ammo w/ gun, I did the following:
Put 200 rounds of my typicall jacketed ball ammo through it for break-in. I went back and started through a few boxes of GoldDot to see if there were any feeding problems. Found no failures up through between 100 and 200 and stopped dropping the $$$ for the exercise. I grabbed two boxes of Hornady TAP and fount no issues either.
I've recently switched to DPX for the Barnes bullets and put two boxes through to see if any problems started to show. Nothing.
Oher than that, I get a new box of PD every six months and run the older one through the gun just to check. I probably pull this out for about 50 of range ammo every 2-3 months for practice.
Other pocket-carry guns I've used at the range did not stand up to extended shooting as a mechanical issue ammo notwithstanding. They fell apart.
packnrat
Member
the gun is just a simple machine.
how do you trust that? it knows no malace.
as for the ammo, there have been some that have a problem of going boom when they should... but i still belive they will go boom as needed.
how do you trust that? it knows no malace.
as for the ammo, there have been some that have a problem of going boom when they should... but i still belive they will go boom as needed.
romma
Member
I went with the Kahr rule of thumb. I figure why not apply it to all my guns.
It is easier to remember too.
It is easier to remember too.
DWARREN123
Member
300 is a good number to my way of thinking.
sailortoo
Member
One cylinder load (note: not magazine!) will show up timing, firing pin strike. If it works for one load, I expect it to be OK, not counting any "refining" that may, or may not be desirable. Had a friend with a new Ruger that was out of time - first cyinder load was all it took to ship it back. 
sailortoo
sailortoo
Ala Dan
Member in memoriam
300 is 'bout right~! 
loop
Member
I assume you are addressing auto handguns specifically.
Before I do anything I'll accuracy test by shooting from a rest at 5, 10 and 25 yards. That can take anywhere from 10 rounds to 150 to find the right load for the gun.
Once I find the most accurate rounds I'll rapid-fire test. After shooting IDPA for about a dozen years I've found many guns that have worked flawlessly for years suddenly develop glitches when they are put under the stress of competition. Match conditions are the closest you'll get to gunfight conditions without getting into a gunfight.
If I can go through 100 rounds of rapid-fire strings without a failure the gun is reliable.
When possible I'll actually shoot a match with the gun. If it holds up to that it is trustworthy.
That's also how I found my current match gun. I tested in a match and won. I've now won five straight with it and have fired 1,500 rounds out of it without a failure of any kind.
I would strongly advise anyone to shoot their gun in an IDPA match. I see guns that have never failed fail in every match.
Last match the front sight fell off a Glock and a Springfield 1911 jammed so tight it took my brass hammer and punch set to get the empty brass out.
The Springer has locked up in each of the last three matches and each time the guy has "fixed" it. Then it does something new and worse even though he's fired hundreds of rounds testing it since the last match.
Before I do anything I'll accuracy test by shooting from a rest at 5, 10 and 25 yards. That can take anywhere from 10 rounds to 150 to find the right load for the gun.
Once I find the most accurate rounds I'll rapid-fire test. After shooting IDPA for about a dozen years I've found many guns that have worked flawlessly for years suddenly develop glitches when they are put under the stress of competition. Match conditions are the closest you'll get to gunfight conditions without getting into a gunfight.
If I can go through 100 rounds of rapid-fire strings without a failure the gun is reliable.
When possible I'll actually shoot a match with the gun. If it holds up to that it is trustworthy.
That's also how I found my current match gun. I tested in a match and won. I've now won five straight with it and have fired 1,500 rounds out of it without a failure of any kind.
I would strongly advise anyone to shoot their gun in an IDPA match. I see guns that have never failed fail in every match.
Last match the front sight fell off a Glock and a Springfield 1911 jammed so tight it took my brass hammer and punch set to get the empty brass out.
The Springer has locked up in each of the last three matches and each time the guy has "fixed" it. Then it does something new and worse even though he's fired hundreds of rounds testing it since the last match.
coloradokevin
Member
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For my duty weapons, where ammo cost is not an issue, I go with 1,000 rounds before I feel comfortable with the gun.
Personal guns, maybe 300-500 (not quite as particular on those)
Personal guns, maybe 300-500 (not quite as particular on those)
sacp81170a
Member
I chose 500+, but it really depends on the gun. Some need to be broken in, some don't. For revolvers, 200 rounds of carry ammo is generally adequate. The improvements in modern manufacturing in QC and CNC machining means that most name brand pistols of modern manufacture are pretty reliable right out of the box. It takes about 500 rounds for me to trust them, and most importantly, the magazines. Think about it: on a semi-auto, which part is most likely to be defective, the $500-$800 gun or the $19.95 magazines?
For semi-auto duty rifles, I like to put about 1,000 rounds through them for familiarization and break in. I also shoot and zero them with different ammo at different distances so I'm totally familiar with their ballistics. For pump shotguns, 500 rounds is good. I like to give them a good wringing out to get them settled in and find out how they pattern with each kind of ammo.
For semi-auto duty rifles, I like to put about 1,000 rounds through them for familiarization and break in. I also shoot and zero them with different ammo at different distances so I'm totally familiar with their ballistics. For pump shotguns, 500 rounds is good. I like to give them a good wringing out to get them settled in and find out how they pattern with each kind of ammo.
It looks like this is geared towards semi autos. Revolvers can be looked at and see if they will fire and function in general. I've had so many failures in so many autos (every single auto I've ever owned has failed in some way, some failed continually)that I don't carry one for any serious purpose, and so few failures of any kind in revolvers that I'd rather have a single action revolver in hand if trouble came up than any auto. Of course trouble around here is more likely to be animals related, from rattlesnakes to grizzlies.
YMMV
YMMV
primer
Member
I had semi's in mind when posting, but I have seen issues with revolvers. So they would fit also. For the rapid fire issue, I do rapid fire my gun to "test" them and myself. I run a full clip through it, drop the clip and insert a fresh one as fast as possible to resume rapid fire. I do this to test my accuracy as well as testing the gun. I do "test" my revolver, but it's for accuracy more than reliability. Unless something breaks, they tend to hold up with less chance of misfire.
Hawk
Member
I used to be happy if it ran 200 without incident including whatever it was going to be carried with.
I've since become a believer in one dealer's "enhancement package". When applied to a duty weapon, the thing shows up obviously shot a lot and runs well. I know I'll never have to hear the words "limp wrist" or "break-in" and that makes the service worth it all on its own.
I'd say "flawless" but my reading of the "IShot1K" thread in the "Competition" forum has me convinced a bobble is simply a matter of time. Also, I've already had several hiccups by using a .45ACP magazine to feed the .40S&W handgun. The fact that it ran 80% with the wrong mag actually gave me something of a warm and fuzzy.
I've trusted it from the git-go but there's been just over 1K rounds through it just because I wanted to - not because I felt the need.
100 rounds for personal peace of mind is prudent but should never be demanded by the manufacturer in lieu of fixing a problem child. I won't even get into one specific manufacturer that demands a 500 round break-in on a thing (surely it's not intended as a weapon) that has a recommended spring replacement interval of 800 rounds.
I don't carry revolvers but do enjoy hunting down older models. Since any Colt other than an SAA or any pre-lock S&W is likely used to one extent or another, I wouldn't trust any of 'em without at least 100 rounds. The folks that post about revolvers always being 100% obviously are using a different supply pool than I am. I've had far more revolver issues than bottom-feeder issues but they're toys so I don't care and they're used products so one expects varying quality of prior ownership.
I've since become a believer in one dealer's "enhancement package". When applied to a duty weapon, the thing shows up obviously shot a lot and runs well. I know I'll never have to hear the words "limp wrist" or "break-in" and that makes the service worth it all on its own.
I'd say "flawless" but my reading of the "IShot1K" thread in the "Competition" forum has me convinced a bobble is simply a matter of time. Also, I've already had several hiccups by using a .45ACP magazine to feed the .40S&W handgun. The fact that it ran 80% with the wrong mag actually gave me something of a warm and fuzzy.
I've trusted it from the git-go but there's been just over 1K rounds through it just because I wanted to - not because I felt the need.
100 rounds for personal peace of mind is prudent but should never be demanded by the manufacturer in lieu of fixing a problem child. I won't even get into one specific manufacturer that demands a 500 round break-in on a thing (surely it's not intended as a weapon) that has a recommended spring replacement interval of 800 rounds.
I don't carry revolvers but do enjoy hunting down older models. Since any Colt other than an SAA or any pre-lock S&W is likely used to one extent or another, I wouldn't trust any of 'em without at least 100 rounds. The folks that post about revolvers always being 100% obviously are using a different supply pool than I am. I've had far more revolver issues than bottom-feeder issues but they're toys so I don't care and they're used products so one expects varying quality of prior ownership.
MaterDei
Member
200 is my rule of thumb. In practice I've found that guns with reliability issues usually show themselves within 50 rounds.
possum
Member
500+ with fmj rds, and then i get into the testing of various sd and hd loads to see what works best.
jakemccoy
Member
I'll carry after 100 rounds of flawlessness. However, I won't feel totally confident until 500+.
Gingerbreadman
Member
I count any failure against trustworthiness. I have never actually owned a brand new gun, so I haven't had the chance to see how my guns performed for the first 100-500 rounds. But I have only one gun that has chambered, fired, and ejected every time single time, so that is the gun that I consider trustworthy.
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