I trust you, but not your gun

[deerhunter61]

To Trust or not to Trust...that is the question...

Someone has already mentioned different types of trust. I think this is the REAL issue here. I had a brother that although I loved him dearly and would trust him with my wife and children and anything else I owned I did not trust him is situations where he was put under a lot of stress. He would almost always panic when under certain types of pressure.

I will try to illustrate what I am talking about. When someone is driving a car in wet conditions and begins to hydroplane the impulse we all have is to naturally hit our brakes. Some people are simply able to overcome these urges because reason immediately kicks in and logic wins out. Others through a lot of training have learned and turned the training into action so that they resist the temptation to hit the brakes. Still others go into an immediate panic and stomp on the brakes sending the vehicle into a spin. I think what people fear, I would put myself in the catigory, is that just because someone carries a gun does not mean that under a lot of stress they will make the right decision. Does it mean that the person is untrustworthy? Again it depends on what the person is trusted with. We are not all created the same and just because some have the ability to make the right choices in incredible stress not all do.

Another question...why do you think the military puts the Ranger, Green Beret and Seal candidates under so much stress etc...to find out if under the worst circumstances they make the right decisions.

Just because someone has taken a couple of classes on how to handle a gun does not mean the person is prepared to handle said gun in the heat of the moment. I believe this is what people fear most from those who carry.

Thoughts?

 

[Deus Machina]

Just to play devil's advocate, I'll say it could simply be badly phrased.

For instance, I myself don't trust anyone with a gun.

Now, let me explain that. I trust the people to not intend anything. I trust them to be good people. But until I see them handle a weapon and they prove they know how to be safe with them, I keep a close eye on them.

My CCL class got a quick second explanation of trigger etiquette because a couple ones that had never held a pistol before had their fingers in the guard. Even I got told to readjust me grip (in my case, I was holding by the muzzle with the slide locked open and the magazine in my other hand, but still.)

Knowing so many of these people had never owned or possibly even shot a firearm before, I personally wouldn't trust them. Even if they do have their license.

That said, quietly invite him to see your collection or spend a day at the range with you. Don't preach, but make him feel welcome to it. Let him see a friendly, law-abiding, responsible gun owner, and his tune may change.

 

[deaconkharma]

the post above is likely to be the truest intent of the friend.
OR...
some people do have that gun jumps up and goes off fear,
OR...
hopefully not this one, but I've found that most anti's PROJECT their own lack of emotional and self control onto others. debate with them long enough and when logic fails them, you'll see what I mean. Things like I hope you shoot yourself with that thing or other angry wishes of ill ends start flying. I hope it's the first reason above though

 

[Larry Ashcraft]

deerhunter61 ...

Nicely put, and thought provoking.

I know what I would do in a driving situation, heck, I've been in all of them, including my motorcycle swapping ends in some water that was deeper than I thought it was. (I stayed upright, but I was mighty sore for a few days.)

Haven't been in a shooting situation, and I hope I never am. But we are never sure how we would react until it really happens, are we? This deserves its own thread, if someone wants to start it.

 

[VegasOPM]

Don't overthink it and don't take it personally... his house, his rules. I have rules for my house and I bet you do too.

 

[shooterfromtexas]

Take him shooting, demonstrate good behavior. I am sure that will change his views.

 

[Soybomb]

"It's not you. I trust you. But people with guns make me uncomfortable."

I'd find that somewhat insulting, its a comment somewhere on the level of "now I'm not a racist but those..."

That said I think you did the right thing. You already have your foot in the door with him being your friend, take him to the range some day for some fun.

Why is this common knowledge? Word for the day here is "****". Obfuscate. Misdirect. Change the subject.

While I appreciate the reasons some people feel it prudent to be quiet about their firearms or carry habits, I hope you can appreciate the necessity and utility of "gun and self defense evangelists" for the 2nd amendment cause.

 

[Armueller2001]

I wonder if he mistrusts police officers, because they are people with guns. Or if he mistrusts people driving cars, because a moment of misdirected attention can cause many injuries and fatalities...

 

[bogie]

Duh... Ask the fellow why?

If you're normally a nice upstanding fellow, strapping on a boomstick won't make you otherwise - could he be engaging in a bit of transferrence?

When I start hydroplaning, my first instinct is to stomp the brakes - why? Because I used to play in a big flat parking lot that got flooded, and we'd learn to control the skids... And it got to where we'd over correct, so as to skid more, so as to have to overcorrect...

Scared the bleep outta my passenger the first time it happened to me in real life (icy road), because while I was having fun, she thought we were gonna die...

(that one was a right/left/right/left/center on a bridge in a light front-wheel-drive car...)

 

[U.S.SFC_RET]

Never tell anyone you have a CHL. Never tell anyone you carry a gun. It is that simple. You will be known as the man with a gun. People in general who are not comfortable (due to the negative press) don't like it.

 

[sacp81170a]

Who isn't trusting whom? If you expect the friend to trust the OP, why shouldn't the OP trust his friend? Trust is a two way street in my book.

Here's the problem with that line of thinking:

You may trust your friend, but do you trust all of his friends, even the ones you don't know? Once a piece of information becomes public knowledge then you've lost control of it. I go over this in CHL classes with all my students because of the consequences that accrue in making themselves open to accusation. Suppose one of your friend's friends takes a dislike to you and one day accuses you of brandishing a firearm? The cops show up, ask you if you're carrying, sure enough you are, and now you got a whole bunch of 'splainin' to do.

Resist the temptation to tell all your friends unless you don't mind that knowledge being passed along to all their families and acquaintances. I know it's hard not to do when you're feeling all giddy about getting your CHL. It's like in law enforcement when rookie cops want all their friends and acquaintances to know they're cops. After a couple years, they cool out and realize that letting everyone they meet know they're a cop compromises their personal security. Why compromise yours?

 

[coloradokevin]

Arrogant,

Some people are strange, I can't really provide a better explanation.

I have a hippie-like friend who lives in the area that I police full-time. I've been to his house on calls before, and have stopped by during lunch breaks in the past when he's had some of our friends over.

He has never been bothered by me carrying at his home when I'm in uniform, but was completely horrified when he found out that I had carried on a hiking trip with him in the past.

Where is the logic on that? He knows I'm a cop, he has had me carrying in his home before (obviously openly). But, when he found out that I do the concealed carry thing while hiking, it totally appalled him!

 

[Carl N. Brown]

The idea that a person with a gun is somehow more untrustworthy than the same person without a gun is odd.

I have heard and read several ancedotes that the responsibility of carrying a gun actually makes people more trustworthy: more cautious, more avoiding of dangerous situations, more aware of their surroundings, more respectful of others and themselves, etc.

Mossad Ayoob wrote about a guy who got a CCW and later told Ayoob that now that he was carrying, he avoided situations that before would have resulted in verbal altercations or even fisticuffs.

 

[BruceRDucer]

What does it mean, "I trust you, but people with guns make me uncomfortable?"---ArrogantBastard

It means this.

In every sense, the person has never addressed the realm of feelings within their own Libido, concerning human violence.

It actually has little to do with you, or even your handgun itself.

The host simply has left all the realm of using force for any purpose shoved aside into an untidy mess in their own collective of vague sentiments, ethics, and values.

Such persons might seem very unwilling to advance their understanding. Otherwise, a few entertaining stories about how ordinary people used a weapon for self-defense might help them advance their understanding.

If I was guest in their home though, I would retaliate by eating all their food.

/

 

[Deanimator]

Ask him what he'd do if a guy kicked in his door like in the Brinks commercial. When he [inevitably] says "call the cops", ask him if he'd tell 911 to instruct the cops not to bring guns, since he couldn't "trust" them if they came armed.

 

[Mp7]

... i think deerhunter made a good comment.

And the part of "You know your buddy best" is also true.


i find it arrogant and extremely paranoid suggest
that this guy can´t be your friend cos he´s got his
own opinion.........

i say ask him wether u can give him the holster when
you come to his house. That way u will be armed when you come and go
and all should be fine.

you know best who your friends are and what real respect is.
Guns are a hobby topic for all here.
Anyone who puts his CCW over relationsships
would automatically disqualify himself for CCW (- in my world.)

02$.
Mp7.

 

[Intune]

"Wanna come over?"
"Love to. Gotta show you my new ride."
'Cool."
"Oops, better not. I'm armed."
"Just leave it in the car."
"Well, it's a motorcycle, but a car is not the best place to leave a weapon either. I guess until you get over being a hoplophobe that we can't hang over at your place anymore. Bums me out. Oh, John & Cindy and a bunch of her girlfriends wanna hook up tonight at the theater but I'll be carrying so I guess I'll tell them you can't make it. Bye."

" "

Tough love.

 

[Phil DeGraves]

But here is my question: What does it mean, "I trust you, but people with guns make me uncomfortable?"

What it means is he is a liar. First he says he trusts you, then he says he doesn't.

What kind of car does he have? Tell him that next time he comes over to your house he'll have to leave that car at home as you don't trust people with Corvettes (or whatever). After all, they are only meant to speed and kill people in them, and the car companies know that drunk drivers are going to use them.

It's all hypocrisy. If he said, "I don't really trust you to know what you are doing with a firearm," at least he'd be being honest.

 

[Wedge]

I've heard this many times. From my wife, my in-laws, numerous "friends". My wife hated guns when we met. They were "dangerous". I actually didn't even own a gun when we first started to date. Over time she saw that they were just inanimate objects.

In fact it was my wife who got me all my reloading equipment as a Christmas present and her parents who gave me a VERY nice holster for CCW.

 

[Neo-Luddite]

My un-informed opinion;

The individual has insecurities tied to his sexuality/masculinity and sees you (with or without a gun, in fact) as a threat.
The social constrictions of interaction in our culture allow for 'house rules' that can be used to constrain the competition.
Knowing that he has no ability with a firearm, and believing that he cannot acquire such abilities owing to his own inadequacies, he feebly seeks control over you and will be ever concerned that you are 'secretly' armed when around him.

If he can accept you as a benign mentor/experienced comrad/ 'big brother', etc.---you might be able to help him grow by taking him shooting. Maybe.

There are lots of ways of looking at the whole interaction, and there are some great responses here. I'm really not some goofy Freudian--but sometimes, yeh, that view of reality fits pretty well.

 

[blkbrd666]

It's an opportunity...after doing the Wal-Mart Walk, you can follow up by doing the Neighbor Walk.

 

[Eric F]

I trust you, but not your gun

Gee wiz I trust alot more guns than I trust people behind them. I trust anything until it/they prove other wise. Alot of people have let me down over the years. Only 6 guns have ever let me down same model same manufacturer long story dont ask do a search I've posted it many times.

As far as what to do, no big deal leave it in the car or dont go visit. But do not show lack of respect by bringing a gun into his house if he has asked you not to.

 

[Henry Bowman]

By claiming that you're the exception, it allows them to retain (and perhaps not even examine!) their bias against whatever it is that they don't like, without putting their relationship with you in jeopardy.

I think this is the answer.

I think what people fear, I would put myself in the catigory, is that just because someone carries a gun does not mean that under a lot of stress they will make the right decision.

A very perceptive post, deerhunter61, but . . .

This is what I consider to be "the price of freedom." The price of freedom is not just paid on the battlefield by our ancestors or currently in a far away land. We must be willing to accept that freedom has a continuing and daily cost in the form of risk(s).

Far too many Americans today are willingly giving away what they preceive to be unused freedoms in exchange for a promise of security (risk reduction). They have come to believe that is a good bargain. It can be very frustrating trying to explain to them the risks (that they are unable to perceive) of that bargain.

 

[SSN Vet]

I posted recently about taking an Irish lad to the range at the request of his naturalized U.S. citizen uncle......

I incorporated into my safety brief the fact that firearms, like other power tools, are inanimate objects. They are not possessed by evil spirits, nor do they have a mind of their own. The point being that when YOU take this tool into your hands, YOU are responsible for what happens. It's YOUR responsibility to understand how the tool works and to handle it safely.

I think your friends reaction has less to do with psychological phobia and more to do with liberal, ACLU type indoctrination. For 45 years, our society has been blaming bad behavior on everything and everyone accept the individual conducting themselves badly. It's the individuals environment, potty training, the ghetto, poverty, the system, the man, everything and every body accept the perpetrator of the ill deed.

Now, after years of blaming guns for crime, lots of folks are afraid of them. Shocker!

 

[moga]

But here is my question: What does it mean, "I trust you, but people with guns make me uncomfortable?"

What does it mean?

It means he doesn't have the stones to say to your face that he doesn't trust you with a gun in his presence. So instead of letting his concern lay bare and take his chances of offending you personally, he places the onus of his mistrust on an inanimate object.

Whoever he is, he sounds like he's passive-aggressive. I can't stand those kind of people.