I trust you, but not your gun

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What it means is he is a liar.
The individual has insecurities tied to his sexuality/masculinity and sees you (with or without a gun, in fact) as a threat.
It means he doesn't have the stones to say to your face that he doesn't trust you with a gun in his presence. So instead of letting his concern lay bare and take his chances of offending you personally, he places the onus of his mistrust on an inanimate object.

Whoever he is, he sounds like he's passive-aggressive. I can't stand those kind of people.
Quite frankly, it means he's a bigot.

With all the, um, conclusions being made about the friend, it would be interesting (and fair) to hear what he had to say about his statement and his position...


Arrogant Bastard, is there any way you could give your friend the link to this thread and maybe he could explain his position and respond to the comments being made about him?

That would be pretty fair.
 
Henry Bowman

I do not disagree with the info you present. And I am not saying we should give up our freedoms. Although I do not currently have a CCL I have been thinking a lot lately of getting one. I do believe in the right to own firearms and also in fact carry firearms.

I also think that some of the posters on this thread...if they present their message in the public arena the same as they present it here is part of the problem.

Here is an example of what I am talking about.

"The individual has insecurities tied to his sexuality/masculinity and sees you (with or without a gun, in fact) as a threat."

This type of comment is destructive to anything we should be trying to accomplish. How does someone make a statement like this? Does the person know the individual the poster is speaking of? The person who made this post is the type I would not allow to carry in my home. It is not constructive at all...just destructive. I want someone who can think straight and be levelheaded in a heat situation and this type of comment to me is just the opposite.

This is not the only response that is unproductive but it is just the first one I grabbed. I am sure I will get blasted...quickly... by those who have made these type of responses and if they get this upset that quickly do you want them carrying a gun around your wife? Children? etc...not me...I will pass.

Also as far as carrying a gun in someone elses home...Never without their knowledge and approval. Would I take this personally? No. Why? Because I choose to make the same decision about anyone coming into my home. Do I care what their reasons are? No. Would I want to talk to them about it? Not unless they are open to it. Would it prevent me from going into their homes? Not unless they live in a very bad area.

If we draw the line in the sand this way do we win? I think not. Only through constructive diologue can we overcome ignorance. That and showing people we do not reacte like Rambo can we overcome their prejudices.
 
I don't like snakes. I've tried to be logical, but drop a snake near me and my blood runs cold.
Same with some people around guns, their logical side says, "This is silly, guns are just a tool." But the emotional side says, "I'm going to die."
I don't know how you get past that.
I have educated my self about snakes. I even talk to the black snake I see in my yard. "Okay Mr. Snake, time to move along."
But I ain't pickin' it up.
 
Jeff F said:
Myself, I probably would not be going over to his house anymore.

I don't mind leaving it in the car when I visit. That's not really the issue for me -- I'm just trying to wrap my mind around his mindset.
 
lamazza said:
How does having a gun + instruction + knowledge alter that trust?

Its a good lesson to learn early on who your real friends are -cross this one off of your list.

Maybe he doesn't understand what kind of instruction or knowledge I have, or that i believe it should stay concealed and not be casually drawn from the holster to show off.

At any rate, if I cross him off the list, I miss a chance to convert him. He has said that though he would be slightly uncomfortable, it would not deter him from joining me out in public, or at my house. So there's wiggle room here.
 
Rokyudai said:
Do you think he is "on the fence" or rabidly anti? Time and patience will tell and in turn help you form a better understanding of how to proceed.

He agrees in principle with the second amendment, though he thinks it's for sporting, hunting and self-defense against criminals. He agrees a person should have the right to arm themselves if they feel the need, though it makes him vaguely uncomfortable when that person doesn't have to carry a gun as part of their job.

In my case, I suspect he thinks i'm slightly paranoid.
 
lee n. field said:
One person mentioned that I'd recently gotten my CHL (not strictly true -- I've completed the class, and am waiting for the license).

Why is this common knowledge? Word for the day here is "****". Obfuscate. Misdirect. Change the subject.

I don't mind that my friends know I've got a CHL. I'm pretty open-book about most things. It would irritate me, however, if somebody put a sticky note on my back that said, "Ask me about my concealed handgun!"
 


Few non-gunnies, other than my wife, know I have a CHL. While I might keep your buddy as a friend, I wouldn't be going to his home anymore.


 
Hey, the only guarentees that I can make about my opinions that I offer on THR are that they are 1) mine 2) honest 3) worth at least what they cost you.

I base my responses on things I have learned and experienced over time as everyone else does. I am careful about any technical advice or information I offer.

I realize that this is a discussion of Arrogant Bastard's friend--but for our purposes it must be treated like a case study. It's not personal--it's just an opinion--just a generalized one at best.

I wouldn't get too overwrought about how my opinion fits or doesn't fit into any particular worldview.
 
ColinthePilot said:
Finally, how do we expect to spread the word about gun ownership and right to carry among our fellow voters if we keep it all a secret? If the average gun-ignorant voter doesn't know anyone who carries a pistol for self defense, why should they vote for it. How will they know that there are responsible, law abiding citizens in their very midst every day, who carry weapons safely and without incident if we always keep it such a deep dark secret?

Since I became a gun owner, several of my left-leaning friends have expressed interest in coming to the range with me; I let them know whenever i go. A few others (who are Democrats) have said that they don't like the Democratic stance on the second amendment because they think about me, and people like me.
 
deerhunter61 said:
Just because someone has taken a couple of classes on how to handle a gun does not mean the person is prepared to handle said gun in the heat of the moment. I believe this is what people fear most from those who carry.

Thoughts?

Oh, I agree. I am always looking forward to getting more training when I find something that fits my schedule.

If somebody completed the CHL course, and that's it -- I wouldn't agree that they are trained to use their firearm.
 
Larry Ashcraft said:
Haven't been in a shooting situation, and I hope I never am. But we are never sure how we would react until it really happens, are we? This deserves its own thread, if someone wants to start it.

I sort of did start a thread like this, yesterday or the day before: "Calm and collected, or blind panic?"
 
Hmm. There is nothing more annoying to me than other people foisting their own fears onto me. I absolutely HATE that.
 
SoyBomb said:
While I appreciate the reasons some people feel it prudent to be quiet about their firearms or carry habits, I hope you can appreciate the necessity and utility of "gun and self defense evangelists" for the 2nd amendment cause.

I have a lot of left-leaning and Democratic friends, many of whom carry negative stereotypes about guns and gun owners.

This is precisely why I've chosen to be an open book about my CHL and my guns with my friends. They already know me. Several have gotten into cordial in-depth conversations with me about it. A few have wanted to see my guns. A few others simply wanted to see how i secure my guns (I have three safes -- a big one, a little quick-access one behind my bed, and one in my car). A couple have asked me to take them shooting -- I'm sure there will be more.
 
But here is my question: What does it mean, "I trust you, but people with guns make me uncomfortable?"

Sounds to me like someone operating from a lack of knowledge. Maybe you should invite that person to go shooting with you and let them see what "people with guns" really are like and then take it from there.

It certainly would give me pause with regards to coming over to that "friend's" house again though.
 
Carl N. Brown said:
The idea that a person with a gun is somehow more untrustworthy than the same person without a gun is odd.

I have heard and read several ancedotes that the responsibility of carrying a gun actually makes people more trustworthy: more cautious, more avoiding of dangerous situations, more aware of their surroundings, more respectful of others and themselves, etc.

Mossad Ayoob wrote about a guy who got a CCW and later told Ayoob that now that he was carrying, he avoided situations that before would have resulted in verbal altercations or even fisticuffs.

Oh, I have seen this with myself.

I've never been a heavy drinker, but now, when I'm out, I limit my alcohol intake even more.

I used to be quick to express my displeasure with other motorists by giving them the one-finger salute. Now, I don't want to be the one who provoked or escalated a situation into one where I might need my firearm. Not only am I refraining from expressing my displeasure, I actually feel calmer on the road, too. I used to think I should never put a gun in my car because I'd be too tempted to use it -- quite the opposite has turned out to be the case.
 
+1

Hey, friend.

It is not you that he mistrusts; it is himself!

The mindset is that they are afraid, they could not trust themselves, and therefore, no one else is trusted either. "No one will be allowed guns."

Please remember that when you "show" him your collection and invite him to handle a firearm.

Absolutely right! He doesn't trust himself with a firearm (and rightfully so). I would suggest you teach him to either conquer his fears and learn to handle a firearm, or tell him what we tell children: when you find a firearm in the sandbox, don't touch it and find an adult right away!
 
Perhaps one more opinion won't hurt.

What does it mean, "I trust you, but people with guns make me uncomfortable?"

I would think that this attitude is a reflection of a basic misunderstanding of why people carry. There is a sig floating somewhere on THR that I can't recall to whom it belongs. The gist of that sig is that it's not the odds, it's the stakes, and I believe it sums up nicely why so many choose to carry. It has been my experience however that among those who are uncomfortable around firearms, it is usually because they cannot grasp the motivations of the armed. To these people, an armed LEO is acceptable because the motivation to be armed is clearly understood. A "civilian" (and I do so hate to divide people up with such a vague term) who is armed does not have an easily ascribed motivation. Is a person armed in order to feel empowered to seek out dangerous situations? Or to bolster a flagging self esteem? Will an armed person use their firearm to threaten me or those I care about? Are they armed as an alternative to thoughtful debate?

You'll notice that among the reasons so far listed, self defense is not there. I think that because so few have been in a situation where deadly force would be a reasonable response, they cannot conceive of it as a valid reason. For example, if you use that reason then you must be paranoid, and if paranoid, then you are mentally ill, and if mentally ill, should you be trusted to carry a firearm? If you choose to carry a firearm into my home, where there is absolutely no threat to you, does this not give further proof of your paranoia?

Let's go a little further along this line and assume that your friend does not wish to think you are mentally ill. He sets a boundary that you will not carry into his home; if you agree then maybe you are not crazy and if you do not, then maybe you are.

I like to try to educate people by analogizing to seat belts. I wear a seat belt for several reasons, but never because I am looking to get into an accident. i always hope to never need to be wearing a safety belt, but should the worst happen, I would want to be protected. Unfortunately, the analogy breaks down about that point because safety belts are passive and require no decision making after strapping it on.

And that nicely brings us to the second point of discussion. After understanding motivation, people need to be educated that it is possible for a person other than LEO's or military to be properly trained in the "when" to use firearms as well as the "how" to use firearms. I personally believe that the general population has a very poor understanding of the nature of such training and so ascribe a much higher value to it, even unto bordering on the mystical.

I am a combat vet, and worked in private security for a little while after getting out. As a former armed professional, I have the utmost respect for those currently serving in that capacity. I do not however assume any of them to have god like powers of infallibility or omniscience. We are all human and some of us posses the temperament to pick up arms in the service of others, and some do not. For those that do not, all we can hope to do is to try to educate them that we who do are neither superhuman nor defective.
 
Another question...why do you think the military puts the Ranger, Green Beret and Seal candidates under so much stress etc...to find out if under the worst circumstances they make the right decisions.

Lets not forget the Air Force Combat Controllers and the parajumpers..:)

i wouldnt take it personally. Its his house and he sets the rules. No worries...some people dont mind guns they just don't want them in their house. I have friends that i love and trust dearly, but wouldnt want them carrying in my house. As a friend I would call him up and offer to teach him everything you know about guns, take him to the range and offer a bit of experience. I feel everyone should have gun experience whether they like or hate guns...

My GF hated guns and always asked why i had them and why i had one in the night stand. Well...after a bunch of conversations and teaching, and a range day..she loves them and feel comfy with them being there. She has even asked me when can we go shooting again.

joe
 
I think it means the neighbor knows the OP wouldn't do anything intentional to harm him, but he also thinks the OP might have a tendency to screw around, make mistakes, absent minded, etc. which could be a problem if a gun was involved. I know plenty of people who are dear friends and I trust them deeply, but I would never want to stand near them if they were holding a gun.
 
In my opinion, having been in similar situations, I would say your best bet is to find out what this person really does know about firearms. Take this as an opportunity to educate him. Ask him to go shoot with you.

Its up to you how you handle the situation with regard to their home. I personally would be finding excuses not to visit in their home. That's just me. YMMV
 
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