Truth or Fiction?

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I'm not all that skeptical about it, I'm not going to call everyone that can shoot better than I a liar. Sure, we see a lot of stuff that makes us wonder but unless the name of the poster is Gecko45 I'm not going to make a big deal about it; I'll just be big enough to admit there are others out there with better skill than I.

As far as MOA goes, CZ offered their Ultimate Hunting rifle year ago with a 1000 yard MOA guarantee, then they moved it down to 800 and now it's at 600. Why they dropped it? I have no idea.

Maybe somebody can call BS on this group I did this weekend, yes, it appears I did pull one a little high: group1.JPG
 
Equitytrader please don`t ruin this thread. Nobody has used the word liar if you would read all of the posts you`ll see that we`re having fun with this. There is some good info on this thread such as target size for different ranges, world record groups, etc. Anyone that shoots knows that saying that you`ve shot a 3 round group of 1 " at above 600 yards is probably BS and even though the math says that a 1/2" group at 100 yards = XX" at 1000, the range of vision , the slightest amount of wind, temp, etc. play a much,much larger role out past 400 so if you`d like to believe them it`s ok but most of us who shoot know better.
By the way, my daughter can shoot that group you`ve posted at 50 yards with her Daisy air rifle.
 
The furthest I have ever shot is 600 yards, M14 National Match. The 24" bullseye looked like the head of a black pin dancing on my front sight. Granted I learned how to hit the black, that was two feet, but if you can do this measured in inches, you have my respect.

I am very happy to see the common sense responses by everyone that repeatability is unpredictable. I made a hole in one once, witnessed no less. Can't swing less than 100 most days. Same thing I think.
 
claiming 1 1/2 " groups at 2750 yards!!

A friend of mine shoots .50BMG on a regular basis out west. He and his "50Cal" friends are equiped with walkie-talkies, computer ballistic software on PCs, hand-loaded, precision ammunition, gunsmith trued & accurized rifles and NightForce scopes. They have several courses laid out of which the shortest is 1760 yds. (1 mile). The other distances are 2640 yds. & 3872 yds. (1.5mi. & 2.2mi. respectively). They also shoot at 2.8 miles occasionally for fun.
A radio equiped guy stands 100-210 yds off to the side of the target behind a protector and calls shots. The shooter dials in the "correction" into his software and tries again. At 2.2 miles - their most frequent distance - they'll hit a 36" sq. sheet of plywood (painted blaze orange) "most of the time" after their initial zero'ing in. This is, of course, on fairly calm days. A 10 MPH, 3:00 breeze will blow them off course by 62 feet w/o any correction so you can see that wind-calling is crucial!!

P.S. "M.O.A." @ 2.2 miles is almost 40"
 
I sold one of my favorite varmit rifles today, a Sako 75 varmit in .223, I'm not physically able to travel the distance to my prarrie dog towns anymore, so its been several years since it had been out of the safe. I let this guy take this rifle to try it out, I agreed to meet him at the local range this afternoon to either pick up the money or the rifle, when I got there he had some alful groups on paper and he said it seemed to shoot "pretty good" I told him I could take the scope off (6.5 X 20 Leupold VARI X lll) and shoot better groups than those. He laughed and then showed me the groups my old rifle shot, 3 of the 4 five shot groups he displayed were one hole groups, the other had one with a wisp of paper between the group and the one "flyer" well below 1/2" including the one with the flyer. He paid my asking price and was pleased to get that rifle, I miss it already:(

I have shot some unbelievable groups with that rifle, never shot it on paper past 300 yards and I hesitate to mention group size as my reputation might slide even farther down the slippery slope of no return.:neener:
 
to equitytrader -

That group, at 50 yds, appears to be just over 1/4". I'd estimate 0.6 MOA. Tahat totally reasonable given the short distance. Wind is almost of no consequence at 50 yds. It becomes a huge deal at 600 yds.!
 
The best shot I ever made was on the M-60 range at the Grafewoer training area. I hit several targets from 6000+ ( yes that's six THOUSAND ) meters.

wait for it

Of course I was shooting an M110A2 8 inch Howitzer & we actually shot out. But I actually did take out almost every target on the range W/ one shot
 
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One interesting aspect of this thread is how little reference to the loads used has come up.


I wonder how much of this perception is by folks using say XM-193 and FMJ, surplus ammo, hunting bullets, or your basic crappy UMC and Win White Box loads.

There is a world of difference between handloads for a specific rifle and factory stuff. And there is a big difference between Lapua/Sierra/Berger match bullets and FMJ and Core-Lockts.
 
There is a world of difference between handloads for a specific rifle and factory stuff. And there is a big difference between Lapua/Sierra/Berger match bullets and FMJ and Core-Lockts.

Amen brother, +1
 
If Gecko45 had shot the group at 2750 yards.............I'd believe. He did save the Mayor's nephew's...well, you know.

And whenever I hear "3 shot group", I instantly turn off. Like that tells you anything.
 
Hey could you tell me why it doesn`t tell you anything?
Click to expand...

No kidding. It is certainly more informative than a 1 shot group. ;) I use to sight in my hunting rifles with 3 round strings. The pile of antlers in my garage tells me it works well enough. Granted, a 5 shot string is better than 3, and 10 is better than 5, but 3 is usually enough for the majority of shooting.

That said, now that I roll my own, I always use 5. Sucks in the bigger rifles where I have to reload, but oh well.
 
Quote:
whenever I hear "3 shot group", I instantly turn off. Like that tells you anything

Hey could you tell me why it doesn`t tell you anything?
Click to expand...

Because it's not really indicative of what a rifle/load can consistantly do. Here's a 3 shot group that is really just one enlarged hole. I don't pretend that I or the rifle can duplicate it. 5 shot groups tend to open things up a bit, and are a truer measure of the rifle and rifleman.

Don

target030719.jpg
 
read the sticky on arfcom "the problem with three shot groups"
 
Hey, for a hunter, a rifle that consistently, year after year, shoots tight three-shot groups is providing all the information that's useful. I'm not talking about "every now and then" tight groups.

Light sporter barrels heat up. Groups "grow". So, a five-shot group is quite often a waste of time and ammo.

Another datum for a hunter is whether or not the first shot from a cold barrel always goes to the same point of impact as it did yesterday or last week or whatever.

So think about the purpose before making arbitrary judgements.
 
so just use the same piece of paper next year and make a 6-shot group. :)
 
i have seen a guy in nevada hit a steel plate about the size of a sheet of typing paper at 900 yards with an ar15.

i would say his hit % was at least 75%. which at 900 yards, from a .223semiauto rifle is incredible.
 
i have seen a guy in nevada hit a steel plate about the size of a sheet of typing paper at 900 yards with an ar15.
Click to expand...
Open sights??;)

Youtube is filled with guys that claim this kinda shot but most of the time there is nothing to "scale" the distance so who knows. The size of a thousand yard match target is posted on this thread. I think it`s like 42" by 44". It`s a pretty good sized target.
 
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