TSA is amazingly polite at Dallas Love Field...

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You're welcome

so is that a no to "looking in your house" then?

Absolutely, if your concept of "patriotism" requires you to believe that our government is unfailingly honest in its dealings with the citizens it supposedly represents.

These mobile backscatter X-ray machines have unlimited settings in the amount of radiation they emit. While their use raises serious 4th Amendment questions, perhaps the most important consideration is the radiation exposure forced on anyone in range.

Below, another piece of information for true patriots to ignore:



http://homelandsecuritynewswire.com/full-body-scanners-us-airports-may-be-dangerous-scientists

Full-body scanners at U.S. airports may be dangerous: scientists

Published 15 November 2010

U.S. scientists warned that the full-body, graphic-image X-ray scanners now being used to screen passengers and airline crews at airports around the country may be unsafe; scientists say that most of the energy from the scanners is delivered to the skin and underlying tissue; "While the dose would be safe if it were distributed throughout the volume of the entire body, the dose to the skin may be dangerously high," they say

Scanners may not be as safe as first stated // Source: cheapoair.com

Some U.S. scientists warned Friday that the full-body, graphic-image X-ray scanners now being used to screen passengers and airline crews at airports around the country may be unsafe.

“They say the risk is minimal, but statistically someone is going to get skin cancer from these X-rays,” Dr. Michael Love, who runs an X-ray lab at the department of biophysics and biophysical chemistry at Johns Hopkins University school of medicine, told AFP.

“No exposure to X-ray is considered beneficial. We know X-rays are hazardous but we have a situation at the airports where people are so eager to fly that they will risk their lives in this manner,” he said.

The possible health dangers posed by the scanners add to passengers’ and airline crews’ concerns about the devices.

AFP reports that the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) began rolling out full-body scanners at U.S. airports in 2007, but stepped up deployment of the devices this year when stimulus funding made it possible to buy another 450 of the advanced imaging technology scanners.

Some 315 full-body scanners are currently in use at 65 US airports, according to the TSA.

Passengers and airline crew members, including pilots, are randomly selected to pass through the scanners. They have the option of refusing, but will then be subjected to what the TSA calls an “enhanced” manual search by an agent.

“People are not reacting well to these pat-downs,” said a travel industry official, who asked not to be named.

Government officials have said that the scanners have been tested and meet safety standards, but Captain David Bates, president of the Allied Pilots Association, which represents pilots at American Airlines, urged members to avoid the full-body scanner.

“No pilot at American Airlines should subject themselves to the needless privacy invasion and potential health risks caused by the body scanner,” he said in a letter this month, which was obtained by AFP.

“Politely decline exposure and request alternative screening,” even if “the enhanced pat-down is a demeaning experience,” he said.

A group of scientists at the University of California, San Francisco (UCSF) raised concerns about the “potential serious health risks” from the scanners in a letter sent to the White House Office of Science and Technology in April.

Biochemist John Sedat and his colleagues said in the letter that most of the energy from the scanners is delivered to the skin and underlying tissue. “While the dose would be safe if it were distributed throughout the volume of the entire body, the dose to the skin may be dangerously high,” they wrote.

The scientists say the X-rays could pose a risk to everyone from travelers over the age of 65 to pregnant women and their unborn babies, to HIV-positive travelers, cancer patients and men.

“Men’s sexual organs are exposed to the X-rays. The skin is very thin there,” Love explained.

The Office of Science and Technology responded this week to the scientists’ letter, saying the scanners have been “tested extensively” by U.S. government agencies and were found to meet safety standards.

Sedat, however, told AFP Friday: “We still don’t know the beam intensity or other details of their classified system.”
 
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San Diego man refuses pat down and full body scan and said he would not fly but would leave instead of submitting. He was then threatened by a $10,000. fine.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_newsroom/20101114/tr_yblog_newsroom/san-diego-man-balks-at-scan

As a consequence, he was threatened with a civil suit and a $10,000 fine if he left the airport's secured area. An in-depth article from the San Diego Union-Tribune explains that Tyner was wary of full-body scanners for both health reasons and privacy concerns. He even went so far as to check the Transportation Security Administration's website before leaving for the airport to confirm that Lindbergh Field didn't use them. (When he arrived, he was surprised to see that the airport did indeed have them.)
 
Once you say your leaving and not flying the TSA loses all authority over you.
Wouldn't it be great if one day everybody showed up to fly and then walked out?

You want to do what to my 12 year old daughter?

AFS
 
Funny how this thread started before TSA made the front pages accused of lying (Big Sis caught lying Google it) and #1 news story for many networks!

Guess we be on the cutting edge here!!!

I am just glad that it has been brought to the forefront of the news cycle for it's five minutes of fame.
 
These images cannot be stored

Quote attributed to Janet Napolitano and also TSA.

HHmmm.... well google "TSA scanner" and see for yourself how they are not stored or shared on the internet...

Could we have been deceived?

Where else will the government promise us they won't put these and we later learn they are there.

I'm ALSO alarmed by the fact that once you initate the procedure of either scanner or patdown, you cannot revoke consent and have to finish the procedure. TSA is considering fining the guy who revoked consent up to $11,000 for interfering with the process!!!

This to me is starting to feel like what I imagine the early days of Nazi Germany felt like. Papers please?
 

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The whole idea is to condition us to accept more invasive illegal searches.

One day, a radical Muslim will stick a bomb up his rectum.

Next thing will be TSA cavity searches.

Be prepared. That's the way this "free" country is going.
 
Yes the 30,000 images at some court house in Fla. kinda blew the "no stored images" comment out of the water if it is true.
 
These images cannot be stored
Not only do the machines themselves have the ability to store them, but a screener's cell phone camera has the ability to record and store them.

The argument that digital images displayed on a screen "cannot be stored" is ludicrous.
 
Policy failure on multiple fronts

A prediction: body cavity searches will be proposed soon enough. It's a small leap from Shoe Bomber to Underwear Bomber; the Butthole Bomber can't be far behind.

Just after the "pat-down" experience this past summer, I talked to food workers at a stand around the corner from the scanners. They told me that none of them were expected to be scanned or searched; they just flashed their ID per usual and proceeded into the gate area to report for work.

The ratio of English-speaking to non-English speaking food and retail workers at the Atlanta airport is not favorable in recent years. Assuming these workers are not being scanned daily, the program is a failure. And if policy now requires them to be scanned, they face even higher radiation doses than pilots.

Taking a historical perspective on this, it appears that the real goal of this program is to continue severely limiting the population's ability to travel. Governments have typically done this ahead of severe economic, political, or natural disasters- the types of disasters that might be followed by unrest and calls for revolutionary change. Look for scanners and patdowns to arrive at state lines throughout the country.


On Edit: Didn't see your comment until after posting, ILikeLead. Not a great image, but a likely scenario- if we can imagine it, the bad guys (or the government propagandists) already have.
 
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Hey Ben!! I am glad this thread has not been closed if for no other reason it may make some go Hummmmmm!

I could see some well meaning Fed agency wanting these scanners at court houses and everywhere else there are the magnetometers now; schools, Etc Etc

Not saying it will happen it is just that I have worked with NSA and that agency is full of people who for your protection can come up with stuff that a normal person would never think of. I wanted to go into a dissertation on the paranoid skitzoes that gravitate to that type of work but thought better of it.
 
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That's a good point about the low paid, non-english speaking food service workers.

I'd also suggest that the $10 and hour baggage handlers, etc. ...

They are either not searched with the scanners, which would be a major loophole in security, or they are scanned and exposed to a lot of radiation.

Wouldn't take much for a terrorist to get a job as a baggage handler... I've known TSA workers and the qualifications are less than impressive.

I cannot wait for the lawsuits of sexaul groping or harmful radiation exposure leading to cancer to come piling in.

Also, don't you think there would be lawsuits if you were injured or worse in a 'secured area' by a terrorist with a bomb or weapon? Afterall, how did he get that gun in the secured area?

Yes, we are being conditioned, daily, to surrender our Constitutional rights. I swore to uphold the Constitution and this is an outrage to me!

I have a solution and not just complaining. Here's my solution:
1) Xray and scan all baggage, search if necessary
2) Metal detectors and wands as we have done for a decade
3) Bomb sniffing dogs at each entrance to secured areas (I have NEVER seen a bomb sniffing dog in the secured areas)
4) Hardened airplane pilot areas (I believe most planes now have this)
5) Undercover armed agents on most flights (I believe we do this)
6) STOP BEING POLITICALLY CORRECT!! Who is targeting us for attack??? Is it the 9 year old white girl flying with her parents for Christmas? Is it the 83 year old Asian grandmother flying from Wisconsin to Kansas? Or is it the 23 year old Yemen man that has trips to Jordan, Iran, and Pakistan on his passport?

Folks, we have limited resources to fight terrorism. This "one size fits all" approach is absurd and is a sign that, when you suspect every American of being a terrorist, and burn the Constitution through unlawful searches, the terrorists have won. WE need to focus on the ball here.
 
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Leadcouncel good post and by the way the cockpit doors were hardened by mandate early in 2000 or late 90s; don't remember but was flying an MD-80?.

Other than making some department bigger or a company richer all it takes is someone willing to think the problem through and having the power to enact proper security measures we can all live with.
 
One day, a radical Muslim will stick a bomb up his rectum.
That's old news. A looney muslin attempted to assassinate the Saudi prince in the UAE and got through the metal detectors with "C-4 in the back door". He blew the crap out of himself, but the prince survived.

(I hope this accurate description got by the censors.)
 
After 9/11 my National Guard unit was activated for airport guard duty. we were allowed to walk around the secure area of the terminal w/ fully loaded (but not chambered) M16s
but forbidden to carry pocket knives or leatherman type tools ***????
 
What other gun related encroachments started as small "for your own good" laws and policies but have evolved into over-reaching incroachments on the 2A?

Gun control??? Helloooo.... anyone see the similarities?
 
After 9/11 my National Guard unit was activated for airport guard duty. we were allowed to walk around the secure area of the terminal w/ fully loaded (but not chambered) M16s but forbidden to carry pocket knives or leatherman type tools ***????
That's about as idiotic as forbidding pilots from having Swiss Army Knives or Leatherman tools.

Think about it. A pilot is trusted with the ability to crash the plane at will, but can't be trusted with a multi-tool?
 
forbidden to carry pocket knives or leatherman type tools ***????

I actually think this makes sense. A firearm is an accounted for item for each Soldier on a regular basis. However a knife/leatherman is easily lost, not reported, not accounted for, etc.
 
I'll try not to get anyone fired for this, but here goes:

Until very recently, I worked at a major international airport. One of the busiest in the world, in fact. I had this job for nearly a year, and went through "security" five days a week. As such, I can say with some authority that all this stuff really is "security theater."

For one, airport employees have different access to the airport than passengers. Most of the time, I took the shuttle bus from the Cargo side of the airport around the runways every day. Going to work that way, all they have is the metal detector. If you bring a bag, it is x-rayed. Since my job required steel toes, I was simply wanded since they didn't make employees take off their shoes.

About the x-ray... I carry a swiss army knife on my keys every single day in normal life. I occasionally forgot to take it off my keys and would leave it with the x-ray machine workers when going in to work and would grab it on my way out. Then one day, while at work, on top of the wing of a 767, I needed my knife. My shoelace had gotten stuck in some machinery, so I whipped out my pocketknife and cut it. Only after the fact did I realize that I had completely forgotten about my knife, and it had made it through security in the tray with my cell and wallet that morning...

After that day, I just pitched my keys in (with pocketknife attached) and let it go through the x-ray with my wallet and cell phone. I carried a knife in to work, in the "secure" areas, every single day for ten months... And if you think that aircraft maintenance workers don't NEED sharp pointy things every day in the "secure areas," you are kidding yourself.

HERE'S THE KICKER: for access from the terminal side of the airport... Employees don't even go through a metal detector. There is simply a "secure" side door. Here's the process: You scan your ID. You punch in your password. The steel gate opens. No TSA. No metal detectors. No pat downs. No scanning of any bags you happen to bring with you. I also often carried in a full thermos of coffee in the mornings. So much for limiting liquids, right?

If I had the gonads to do it, I could have easily carried my pistol with me to work that way every day and never gotten caught.:what: And if someone were completely ballsy, a folding rifle could have gotten through in a duffel bag.

And here's the thing. I am confident that I won't get tracked down by the Feds for posting this info, because the many thousands of airport workers in every state already know this. And the government does NOT care about closing these loopholes, because it is all an act to make people "feel" safe and increase control. Even if they do give employees equal "security", it will STILL BE POINTLESS...

Airports all over the world would need the exact same measures to make this effective. If you get a weapon past security in London and fly to New York... you are already in the terminal ready for your connecting flight to any airport in the US without additional screening.

It is only as strong as the weakest link. And trust me, there ARE some very weak links out there all over the world. Not every country has the resources we do to spend millions on security at one small airport.

THAT is why they shouldn't get away with this violation of the 4th amendment. It doesn't help. It just violates people's privacy and lets them ignore our rights.

Oh, and think about it this way. A terrorist could simply get an employee to take an entire rifle AND body armor around security in their work bag. It gets hidden in the ceiling tiles in the bathroom. Now the terrorist buys a ticket, goes through security like a normal chump, heads to the designated bathroom, and picks up his armament to put in his carry on.

Now you've got a terrorist with body armor and an AK past security and with a boarding pass. The scanners are pointless, I assure you.

Hadji needs more manpower? Okay, repeat the process for two weeks. Now there are ten rifles and ten sets of body armor hidden in the ceiling tiles. What now? Still think they can't take a plane?

What it boils down to is armored cockpit doors and armed pilots. They should be locked before takeoff and not opened until reaching the gate EVER, for ANY reason. Whatever goes on in the passenger compartment is the passengers' and Air Marshal's problem. If they somehow get into the cockpit, the pilots still have one last chance to save the day.
 
These mobile backscatter X-ray machines have unlimited settings in the amount of radiation they emit.

really? unlimited? can you substantiate
 
I'm gonna add this to my novel above. Even if they scanned and patted down ALL employees, every single day, tool bags still have to get through. Hide a few pieces/parts in the toolbag every day. The x-ray technician still can't tell the difference with all the tools and metal junk in your bag so it gets through. Do it for a week or so, and all the pieces are through.

Trust me, all these violations of our rights are not making ANYONE safer while flying. Anything that's actually affective doesn't require people getting naked and groped.

And this isn't even addressing the thousands of other ways guns and bombs can get into an airport. Ever heard of "GateGourmet"? All equipment, food, fuel, people, tools, parts, machinery, planes, vehicles and even the TSA agents themselves would have to be stripped bare and x-rayed before being allowed into the airport. And that includes everything and everyone that lands too to address security lapses in other countries.

Security that tight is impossible. Best bet is to sniff for explosives, barricade the cockpits, arm pilots and Air Marshals, and call it a day. None of those violate the constitution as far as I can tell.
 
Apparent Troll said:
really? unlimited? can you substantiate

Why gosh yes I could do so.

Instead I'll grant you the courtesy of refuting my statement, as I've previously given you the benefit of research you could easily have accomplished on your own.
 
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HERE'S THE KICKER: for access from the terminal side of the airport... Employees don't even go through a metal detector. There is simply a "secure" side door. Here's the process: You scan your ID. You punch in your password.
I don't know what airport this guy worked at but I'll verify he's telling the truth.
At TIA, Tampa, E-terminal, serving Delta, my home airport, there is a side door that allows employees to bypass security totally. Nobody is even watching the door. Put in the code and, bingo, door opens. I have complained to TSA and they admit it's not their area. So, all we do is theater.
I say fight back. Always refuse the scan, take the patdown (if you must fly) it slows everything down. (I always ask for a gay screener, they give the best patdowns. JK)
And while they are fondling my genitals, I remind them what a joke this is.
really? unlimited? can you substantiate
Prolly not unlimited, but it is adjustable down to pore level. I have heard it is the same as 30 chest x-rays.
Beyond that, I just don't want strangers checking out my genitals. Maybe you do.

Janet Napolitano admitted yeasterday that muslim women may be given a pass on patdowns and images.
Meanwhile, if you are paying attention, you have seen the photo of the muslim screener groping a nun. WT?
The terrorists won.
 
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Rusty Shackleford, I agree with your conclusions in both your "novels" above; great stuff. Like Guns and More said, it's all theater. The only benefit of this enhanced security accrues to the government: It wants to control the citizenry.

Whether it's headed by likely homosexual Skull n Bones grad Bush or seemingly homosexual Indonesian native Obama, the goal of our government is to make sure the population is properly cowed and obedient. Air travel is simply a highly visible and public industry that is easily targeted.
 
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