U.S. Pastor Gets 3+ Years for 20rds in Russia

[Limeyfellow]

The sad thing is, if you had done this and brought it into the US, it is a 5 year prison sentence. Possibly more for for breaking the law further in having unlocked ammunation in an airport and taking it on the plane. Most federal or state judges would have thrown a heavy book indeed at the guy.

 

[Cosmoline]

Any actual cases to support that claim? I find it extremely difficult to believe that a foreign national coming here to hunt would be sent to prison for years because he brought a box of ammo without the proper paperwork. Many thousands come to hunt in this state alone, often bringing their own hardware with them. If you screw up I expect you'd lose your firearms to customs and likely get a boot right back home, but I've never heard of them putting good faith violators away with hard time. Heck I've screwed up customs paperwork before and brought a dog in from Germany without proper approval. They let me take her and gave me a warning and instructions on what to do next time. These guys have MUCH bigger problems to worry about that somebody not filling in the right forms. Billions of pounds of hard drugs, for one thing.

The only way you'd be looking at serious trouble is if you LIED on your ATF F6 NIA (5330.3D) or used it as a cover for illicit arms traffic.

in having unlocked ammunation in an airport and taking it on the plane

I didn't see anything about him carrying it on the aircraft. It's perfectly legal in this country to check sealed boxes of smokeless ammo. I've done it myself.

 

[Cosmoline]

The law is the law. Breaking laws and getting arrested will not change them!!!

Their "law" is an even more perverse joke than our own. To even credit Russia with "laws" is a stretch. There are those with power and those without.

 

[Atla]

Send in the Marines!

 

[RPCVYemen]

But what you have is a case where a simple box of ammo becomes smuggling instead of a more "realistic" charge of just bringing the ammo in illegally.

How is bringing ammo without declaring or paying duty on it different from smuggling?

smuggle: to import or export (goods) secretly, in violation of the law, esp. without payment of legal duty.

I assume that the Russian system noted the difference between smuggling 10,000 rounds and smuggling 30 rounds, hence the lenient sentence.

Mike

 

[Markbo]

Robert Hairless: FWIW I said nothing about immigrants. I said I have met Russians. I was in the shipping business for 25 years and met Russians, Ukranians, etc, etc on Russian Flagged ships.

SSN Vet: I am aware of the Russian Orthodox. I was not aware of the current degredation of rights that Russians have won since the collapse.

uh... thanks!

 

[shdwfx]

I assume that the Russian system noted the difference between smuggling 10,000 rounds and smuggling 30 rounds, hence the lenient sentence.

By what standard of measure do you consider that in any way lenient? Some have gone so far as to call it 'average', but lenient?

Please.

 

[max popenker]

A small update: Russian penal code, Article 188-2, Contraband of narcotics, radioactive substances, small arms, ammunition, and explosives, other weapons and parts of weapons of mass destruction...
Will result in 3-7 years of prison PLUS fine up to one million of roubles (about $40,000).

So, I guess, pastor got a MINIMAL term for contraband, and that's all.
Stupidity hurts.

 

[CAPTAIN MIKE]

Might Have Avoided This

I understand from news reports that he declared the ammunition going out of the U.S. to our own customs officials. I wonder why it was they didn't 'suggest' it would not be a good idea to carry ammunition into Russia.

 

[shdwfx]

Another Small Update

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,352203,00.html

According to his attorney and family spokesman, Dominic Starr, the pastor, who leads an annual missionary trip to Russia to speak at churches and visit church-backed orphanages and rehab facilities, declared the munitions to U.S. authorities when he left Myrtle Beach International Airport. He was cleared for the flight.

However, at the Moscow airport, where Starr says no signage in English exists to indicate that a separate declaration must be made to customs officials, an airport scanner picked up on the box.

According to Starr, who has been a member of the pastor's church for eight years, Miles explained why he was carrying the offending cargo, and officials appeared to understand, though they confiscated the gift, telling Miles he had broken the law.

The officials then stamped his passport and visa and sent him on his way. But upon returning to the airport on Feb. 3, Russian customs officials detained Miles, who has remained imprisoned since.

"We don't know why, and we may never know why" he was detained, Starr told FOX News.

Those who have followed the case say the expectation was that Miles would be found guilty of a misdemeanor illegal possession charge rather than the felony smuggling charge, which usually carries a penalty of three to sevens years.

It appears this was an honest mistake, and he did not intentionally sneak the ammo into Russia or try to "play games" with customs. He got the "minimal" sentence IF he actually is guilty of smuggling, which is still very debatable in light of these circumstances.

Sen Lindsey Graham, R-S.C. is also working through diplomatic channels to secure his release.

 

[max popenker]

Let me clear some things.
I flew in and out of Russia many times, and EACH time shortly before the landing cabin crew supplied EVERYONE in cabin with Russian Customs Declarations blanks, which are available in English.

The truth is that pastor DID broke the laws, by bringing in un-declared stuff that MUST be declared. It IS a felony here, period.
The reason of this felony is relevant only to the severity of punishment, as decided by judge (i.e. plain stupidity brought minimal term, while proven intent to smuggle ammo would probably have resulted in as much as twice the time plus heavy fine)

Ammunition IS heavily regulated in Russia. Also, for example, try to imagine the same trick when landing in London or Tokyo, or replace box of ammo with box of marijuana and put the pastor in the context of any US international airports...

Russian laws could be very weird, and our legal system could be as sicking as it gets, but the truth is that pastor DID broke the laws out of sheer stupidity, and got what he deserved.
He must thank god that he didn't tried to bring some crack to his fella somewhere in Saudi Arabia, where he probably would be beheaded for drug smuggling...

He saved himself a stroke of pen when [not] filling Customs declaration, now we'll see if he'll save his own self out of such unpleasant place as Russian prison.

 

[RPCVYemen]

I understand from news reports that he declared the ammunition going out of the U.S. to our own customs officials.

Why does this have any impact at all? Does US Customs have any concerns about anything leaving the country.

This sort of sounds like the media is confused - or the story is sketchy.

There is no customs check on the way out of the US - not when I have flown. In every airports I have been in, you can't even get to the customs inspectors area on outgoing flights - customs in exclusively concerned about what is coming into the country.

There folks who are concerned about "munitions" leaving the country - but they are not a part of customs.

However, at the Moscow airport, where Starr says no signage in English exists to indicate that a separate declaration must be made to customs officials, an airport scanner picked up on the box.

Wait a second - the pastor filled out and signed a declaration form. I have filled out a bunch of those, and every one was in multiple languages, always including English. Are you claiming that the declarations form was not in English?

That would not fit my experience at all. I have flown into a lot countries, and the declarations form was always in the language of the destination country plus several others. I got in trouble once for filling out the Saudi form in Arabic. I thought I have misspelled something, but they were just mad at an American who had filled out the form in Arabic.

Sen Lindsey Graham, R-S.C. is also working through diplomatic channels to secure his release.

Let's hope that works out. It appears that the Russian government applied the minimum sentence, but the pastor sounds like a nice guy - if a bit of an airhead.

You might also consider contacting Jesse Jackson, or someone who has been friendlier to the Russians in the past. As I recall, Rev. Jackson had negotiated the release of some Americans from some countries friendly to the Soviets (Does anyone recall this? I can't recall any details).

I don't really know Sen. Grahman's record, but if he has lashed out at Soviets frequently, he may not be particularly effective.

I know that Rev. Jackson is not wildly popular on THR, but there was a time when he was very popular outside the US. If the Russian government wants to release the pastor - and stick a finger in the eye of the Bush administration at the same time - they might be more likely to release the pastor to Jackson or Carter.

Mike

 

[RPCVYemen]

According to his attorney and family spokesman, Dominic Starr,

I just re-read the quote, and realized that this is the story told by the pastor's lawyer. The lawyer is required to represent his client's interests, and is never required to tell the truth. In fact, a lawyer who publicly told the truth and hurt his client would be severely censured.

I think that a lawyer making a true public statement that hurt his client would very likely be dis-barred.

It's not likely that he would face any censure at all for lying - as long as it helped his client. I think there are lawyers who would argue that they are required by professional canon to lie for their clients, if that helps the case. I think there is some kind "robust defense" requirement - some lawyer on THR will know for sure.

It does tickle me that on THR, a lawyer who represents a defendant is considered the lowest lying scum - unless he's representing a gunnie, then he's pure as the driven snow, and a veritable font of truth.

Evil

 

[Ash]

The lawyer is required to represent his client's interests, and is never required to tell the truth. In fact, a lawyer who publicly told the truth and hurt his client would be severely censured.

Not at all. The attorney cannot lie. He can leave things out, but he cannot lie. He is an officer of the court, and cannot lie and, should his client confess to a crime in private to him, he is obligated to remove himself.

 

[shdwfx]

It does tickle me that on THR, a lawyer who represents a defendant is considered the lowest lying scum - unless he's representing a gunnie, then he's pure as the driven snow, and a veritable font of truth

That's a common fallacy, attributing perceived conflicting opinions of a group to individuals - a form of straw man argument.

Regardless...

Littered all through this thread are comments of "got what he deserved", "airhead", "arrogant American." Honestly seems a little mean spirited.

I think a more telling question is why be predisposed to assume the worst from this particular gunnie - especially when we don't have all the facts? Why eviscerate a well intentioned person who (as more details come out) appears to have made an honest mistake - and paid dearly for it?

For myself, that position is untenable especially when that requires taking up for a corrupt Russian judicial and penal system.

 

[Gene_WI]

All this bruhaha. The pastor got a minimum sentence! He will have all the trial-pretrial time count towards his sentence. I would be surprised if he does any time at all. I predict release on appeal, or a similar compromise. In any case he will go to a special prison for foreigners with good food and hot water.

The most important lesson here is. READ WHAT YOU SIGN, and be careful in customs.

 

[RPCVYemen]

Not at all. The attorney cannot lie. He can leave things out, but he cannot lie.

That's news to me. I am not arguing, just surprised.

I was pretty sure that although a defense attorney is an officer of the court, he is not required to tell the truth, and may lie. He's not giving a deposition - his statements are not sworn testimony, so he can't be prosecuted for perjury, right?

should his client confess to a crime in private to him, he is obligated to remove himself

Doesn't this have to be wrong? I am confused. If this were true, couldn't a dependent tell his attorney - and every attorney assigned to him by the court that he's guilty, and then walk because he can't be represented by counsel?

I am puzzled. Are you sure about all this?

Mike

 

[MakAttak]

All this bruhaha. The pastor got a minimum sentence! He will have all the trial-pretrial time count towards his sentence. I would be surprised if he does any time at all. I predict release on appeal, or a similar compromise. In any case he will go to a special prison for foreigners with good food and hot water.

The most important lesson here is. READ WHAT YOU SIGN, and be careful in customs.

The pastor got a minimum sentence for SMUGGLING.

Most of those objecting here are wondering why the lesser crime of illegal possession was not chosen.

But, hey, we're just trying to get special treatment for Americans cause we think we're all better than everyone else, right?

 

[Ash]

An attorney cannot knowingly lie in court. He is an officer of the court and as such, is obliged to tell the truth. If his client confesses to committing a crime, the attorney is obliged to advise him to confess to the court and remove himself. For an attorney to knowingly defend someone who has confessed to him, to knowingly lie in court, he can be disbarred and imprisoned. Now, an attorney can suspect his client is guilty and be okay, but he cannot lie for the client. He can phrase questions, leave things out, etc, but cannot knowingly lie.

Ash

 

[RPCVYemen]

If his client confesses to committing a crime, the attorney is obliged to advise him to confess to the court and remove himself.

If that's true, then what stops a defendant from confessing to every attorney he's assigned, and walking?

Mike

 

[RPCVYemen]

For an attorney to knowingly defend someone who has confessed to him, to knowingly lie in court, he can be disbarred and imprisoned.

What statutes are used to prosecute the attorney? He's not committing perjury if he's not giving testimony.

I am confused - I am not a lawyer, but served on a jury several years ago. I seem to recall a video they showed the prospective jurors that included the info that neither the prosecutor nor the defense attorney was under oath, and was not obligated to tell the truth.

Are you saying that's incorrect?

Are you a lawyer?

Mike

 

[General Geoff]

It is illegal to lie under oath, whether or not you're a lawyer. That's why lawyers don't lie, they bend the truth.

 

[Ash]

Bend, yes, bend to the very brink, yes, but lie, no.

As to confessing to get out of trial, that doesn't do anything but keep yourself in prison.

Ash

 

[JohnBT]

"Miles said he bought the ammo for a friend’s Winchester rifle, a rare weapon in Russia"

There's something fishy about this story. What kind of friend will fly halfway around the world and only bring you 20 rounds?

John

 

[Ash]

He was there for a mission's trip. He brought a box of ammo with him.

Ash