Uberti vs Colt

[Cowhide Cliff]

Most all of the Ubertis can stand some tuning but I have also seen new Colts the same way. I saw a Colt recently that the timing was so far off I wouldn't have considered it safe to shoot.

Personally I can't see paying three times as much for a new Colt for a gun I'm planning to put through the paces. If I am buying a gun for the name then I'm investing in an older collectible firearm, not a new one that will never be collectible once it has seen plenty of use.

Just my opinion, if it's worth the difference to someone for the gun to say Colt on it then that is about the only thing your getting for the extra cost.

 

[Barry the Bear]

Thanks guys for all the info im gonna hold out for a US firearms one but I won't let a colt pass me by.

 

[shootniron]

Can't speak for everyone, only myself, but I love the Cimarrons...just great guns for the money. Never had a Colt, not disparaging them at all, but they cannot possibly offer more for the money, than a Cimarron...even considering resale.

And, I have Rugers and they are fine guns and I like them...but I love the Cimarrons and that SAA action...just handles so much better than the Ruger. When I reach for a gun to go tromping about the woods...as I do regularly, it is a Cimarron Mod P in 44 special...it is MY gun.

 

[Crunchy Frog]

Take a look at the Pietta revolvers as well.

I would start with EMF (Early and Modern Firearms); they have been importing Pietta revolvers for years.

 

[xxmaa]

$ no object?

Get a colt! Then watch all the A uberti owners jump around telling you how all the clones are just as good ! But they ain't !! An they may never admit ,it till they beat some widow , out of one . I saw an uberti Callahan that was put together like a freedom arms . SOLID. But it still was no colt. When colt decided the P mdl was obsolete ; They threw the machinery out . AUberti bought it . So when us arms said their arms were made on Colt machinery , in the old colt factory , It was 't a lie! They imported the parts from Italy , an put them together in the old colt factory . Doing a superb job.but they still an't colts ; but made on colt machines ... So the new colts with the different handle , are only colts , because they are made by the American colt co. In the usa. And can be marked colt . Kind a crazy . But the colt is better whether it shoots better are not! Just pick em up an feel the difference ..

 

[45 Dragoon]

Hey Barry,
My carry is an El Patron Comp. made by Uberti. Like others have said, all S.A.s (no matter what flavor) can stand a good tuning and set up. It's the biggest reason a S.A. will last or start eating parts. A Colt can be a dog just as any of the others. I make it an exercise to cycle my E.P. at least 50 cycles daily (since new but after I went through it), almost at a fanning speed with trigger held back, just as a torture test for my set up on it. Have not had any parts/springs break. The locking notches are as new. My set up includes an action stop and a bolt block (I think they are the most important additions for longevity for any S.A.).

So, no matter what flavor you end up with, the set up is what will make it last.

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com

 

[45 Dragoon]

Quote from xxmaa - " the Colt is better whether it shoots better or not" . . . . . . . . . . .ok . . . . . . . now I really want to spend the money for a . . . . . . . . nah, don't think so.

Bottom line is, spend your money like you want to, its yours. I don't fault anyone for buying what they want. I work on Uberti's and Piettas (almost) daily and you can tell when the tolerances were stacked on the "good" side and when they weren't. It's the same with the Colts I work on. The main difference is the exterior finish, Colts look the best but when you go inside, they all pretty much look the same. The good thing is, they all leave here feeling as good as the Colt looks !! (Including the Colts of course!!)

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com

 

[CraigC]

As Cliff said, the US finished Cimarrons have real bone charcoal case colors.

DWJ, quite a few of the newer guns are coming with the squared off 2nd generation style sights.

xmaa, the early USFA's were made in the old Colt building out of Uberti parts but not on Colt machinery. Why would they need machinery to finish and assemble Uberti parts? The USFA's of the last decade or so of production were made entirely in the US on modern CNC machinery in a different facility. Like the gun I pictured above, they are head and shoulders above Colt in quality from the inside out. As far as feel, my tuned Colt's feel and sound just like my tuned Uberti's. My late model USFA's, however, feel completely different. Like a precision instrument and they required no tuning. US Arms is a completely different company.

TruthTellers, how many Colt's, Uberti's, Pietta's and USFA's have you owned?

If you want to roll the dice and pay thousands on the Colt, that's your decision and your money.

A new Colt is $1400-$1500, not "thousands". And you've obviously never handled one made in the last several years. You speak with authority on this subject, yet you don't even know how much a new Colt costs. A used 3rd generation Colt is going to cost $1000-$1200. I got the Colt .38-40 pictured above a year ago, with $300 worth of grips and $200 worth of tuning for $1200. I'm thinking about picking up a 2nd generation right now for $1300.

 

[ROAshooter]

"Funny, I started programming CNC machines back around 1990, so I guess I don't know what I'm talking about."

"Yup. Times have changed."

didnt ya know...experince is not a qualification.....with todays noitalls

 

[CraigC]

Yup. Times have changed.

Yes, I'm sure that operating CNC equipment has gotten 'more' difficult in the last 20yrs.

DWJ, said he "started" programming CNC's in 1990.

Here's a life lesson. After an injury, the old man had to leave construction behind and start a new career in IT in 1982. He started as an operator/programmer making less than he was in construction. He learned everything he could and worked every hour they let him. He never went to college and to this day, has survived on blood, sweat and tears with only a high school diploma. Through the course of 20yrs and several employers, he moved his way up to director with dozens of employees under him. Such a respected expert on the System36/38 and AS/400, he was hired as an expert witness on multiple court cases and eventually by IBM to train their employees on their machines. For the last 15yrs he has been in business for himself and at present, his company has several million dollars a year in sales. I left my field job in 2005 and went into the IT industry as a subcontractor. Suffice to say when the old man speaks, I listen. I can't imagine how much of my brains I'd have to knock out to actually believe that my new experience was somehow deeper than his hard-earned 33yrs. Or that my younger age was somehow an advantage. The point here is not to brag about Dad but to let a certain someone know that sometimes it's best to shut up and listen. One's first step towards wisdom is to be smart enough to know that when your betters are trying to teach you something, pay attention. So when Driftwood Johnson talks about sixguns, you'd be wise to open your ears and close your lips.

 

[Cowhide Cliff]

Actually the other way around. Much of the newer CNC is easier.

 

[CraigC]

That's what I would've assumed.

 

[ROAshooter]

Being the "old guy" that I am....I do have a deep respect for those "old guys".....that could mill a part...WITHOUT...the benefit of a computer running the milling machine. I have handled souvenir parts milled by a family friend, my dad worked with at White Sands Missile range. So many of his personal souvenirs were machined out of "unobtanium" which were new materials being tested on various missile systems in the 60s..... As an adult, I had the pleasure of firing my friends AK47.....that he had replaced all the internal parts with milled/machined parts he personally made from the scrap bins....without the benefit of a computer!!

 

[CraigC]

The gunsmith that's doing my custom .500 Ruger recently finished this one, a five-shot .45Colt. Steve had a unique request for a front sight, one that resembled that of the Ruger No. 1 but scaled down to proper proportions. Jack (the gunsmith) has no desire to ever own a CNC mill and prefers to do things the old fashioned way. He had to make the cutter to accomplish the graceful slope and center peak of the trailing edge on the front sight base.



A testament to fine work by skilled hands.

 

[TruthTellers]

Pertaining to the CNC discussion, so long as there is no setup involved, yes it makes the process a lot easier. Hopefully manufacturers like Uberti and Colt keep limit the amount of machine setups so they can crank out more parts.

Even with straight operation, the operators still have to comp for tool wear, measure critical dimensions, inspect and replace cutting tools, and try to get the best surface finish. So, it's not just a straight load and go like some believe it is.

I can't pretend I know exactly what happens inside of Colt and Uberti, but I can say if operating CNC's was as simple as some are making it out to be, then there's no way in hell that the higher quality, harder steel that Colt most certainly uses in their SAA's is worth an extra $500-$1000.

My whole argument had been that nothing is a guarantee, not even an SAA, with manufacturing today. If the thinking is that the money spent on a Colt will ensure that it will function perfectly with no hiccups because it cost more compared to what the Uberti costs, that is flawed thinking. Colt can produce guns that leave much to be desired just as well as other SAA manufacturers can.

Colt isn't a guru of manufacturing because what makes Colt Colt isn't just the name, it's the people that work there and the manufacturing procedures they adhere to. I previously stated, you can, and often do, have a tier of guys with a variable set of skills. Some guys are better than others. That truth isn't specific to Colt alone, Uberti will also have people like that. The difference is Uberti doesn't pretend they're the master of manufacturing like Colt tries to sell you when they rattle off the MSRP of their product.

As for the statement that "newer CNC's" are easier to work with, through all the experience I have seen, they are actually more difficult to work with. The complexity of the software that runs the newer CNC's is much more complicated than the CNC's of 20 years ago, which didn't have as much memory and thus was kept simple and understandable almost anyone could get it.

Hell, newer machines I've seen come into the shops I've worked at also have huge quality issues. Again, just because you buy a new Mori Seiki, which is supposed to be the best machine tool manufacturer in the world, doesn't mean jack. Older machines, like older guns, that have proven themselves over time tend to be better than whatever is newly manufactured.

 

[xxmaa]

Guess

It was't clear enough , Craig .i wrote the parts were made on colt machines (in Italy) and put together in the old colt building.an like you, every one assumed they were made in the good ole USA . Rave on man , makes for real good read.

 

[isaactc]

Wisely stated.

 

[isaactc]

A wise conclusion.

 

[CraigC]

It was't clear enough , Craig .i wrote the parts were made on colt machines (in Italy) and put together in the old colt building.an like you, every one assumed they were made in the good ole USA . Rave on man , makes for real goo read.

It wasn't clear because you don't know what you're talking about. You need to brush up on your history. I have assumed nothing. It is well established what USFA guns were of Uberti parts and which were of domestic origin. The USFA I pictured earlier is all domestic. The one below the late model domestic 12/22 is an early USPFA gun made of Uberti parts.

And this crap about Uberti building guns with old Colt machinery is pure myth. Even if they had, by the time they produced parts for USPFA, they were using thoroughly modern machinery as they are today.

 

[Hondo 60]

I can't comment on Colt SAAs, as I've never owned one.

But I can very highly recommend Ubertis.
Got 2 of 'em, an 1873 Cattleman NM Brass with a 5.5" barrel.
This one is as accurate as they come, certainly better than I can shoot.

A month ago I bought an El Patron Competition.
It's as good as the older one and just as much fun.
No break-in needed.

It's currently at Taylors & Co to have a 45ACP cylinder fitted.
They called just today to let me know it's done & ready to be shipped back to me.

This evening I was in the garage casting .452" 230 gr bullets.
They're lubed & drying as I type this.

 

[Barry the Bear]

There was a neat stoeger birds head revolver behind the glass at the lgs, for a second thought I might buy it but I'm still gonna hold out for the higher tier guns.

 

[xxmaa]

STI

Texican ,around 2008 ;was the first handgun of any kind , made on high speed Cnc . Uberti , colt , not . An uberti got there start with colt tooling. You do the brushing up . Craig , you've assumed something ! Cause you or no one ,is perfect ! I remember when ,passing up the chance to buy a colt.(saa) for 75.00 bucks N.I.B. (saa) rugers for less . Wish , the rodeo (usfa) had stuck with me. Seems like you think I don't like a.uberti products . I like em all. Mainly use bows, arrows. Black powder on occasion. Cartridge stuff too easy , like huntin over bait. To the O.P. you maybe should try an find you one of those texican .45 colts, should really be going up in value by now. Called sti wanting one right after they quit making them. Forgot why he said they stopped. I heard they were like a vault ( bank type)

 

[yugorpk]

I dont know what any of you are talking about concerning Colt. If you have tried to buy anything "new" in SAA from Colt you have been sadly disappointed. Colt is damn near insolvent and they are not building anything in the SAA custom shop. Ive been trying to buy a new Colt SAA for years. "New" in Colt speak means made 7-8 years ago. Colt is as close to total bankruptcy as you can get.

 

[red rick]

+1 with yugorpk .

I tried to buy a new SAA Colt about 3 years ago . Waited and searched for over a year and never saw a 5 1/2" barrel model . I saw one 4 3/4" model and a few 7 1/2" models . I got tired of waiting and bought a Taylor & Co. Smoke Wagon Deluxe and I am very happy with it .

 

[CraigC]

Texican ,around 2008 ;was the first handgun of any kind , made on high speed Cnc . Uberti , colt , not . An uberti got there start with colt tooling. You do the brushing up . Craig , you've assumed something ! Cause you or no one ,is perfect ! I remember when ,passing up the chance to buy a colt.(saa) for 75.00 bucks N.I.B. (saa) rugers for less . Wish , the rodeo (usfa) had stuck with me. Seems like you think I don't like a.uberti products . I like em all. Mainly use bows, arrows. Black powder on occasion. Cartridge stuff too easy , like huntin over bait. To the O.P. you maybe should try an find you one of those texican .45 colts, should really be going up in value by now. Called sti wanting one right after they quit making them. Forgot why he said they stopped. I heard they were like a vault ( bank type)

More misinformation. The STI Texican was made almost entirely on an EDM. Not a CNC mill. The big deal being that they didn't require any further metal prep before the finish work. By 2008, USFA and Uberti were firmly into using CNC machinery to produce their guns. I don't know where you information comes from but it's mostly incorrect.

I dont know what any of you are talking about concerning Colt. If you have tried to buy anything "new" in SAA from Colt you have been sadly disappointed. Colt is damn near insolvent and they are not building anything in the SAA custom shop. Ive been trying to buy a new Colt SAA for years. "New" in Colt speak means made 7-8 years ago. Colt is as close to total bankruptcy as you can get.

More misinformation. 7-8yrs ago is when they started shipping the good stuff. Colt has been steadily shipping guns. At least according to Brent, the Custom Shop manager, who posts on ColtForum quite often. If I remember right, 200 guns a month. Colt is indeed shipping guns and taking orders right now and that is a fact.

I tried to buy a new SSA Colt about 3 years ago . Waited and searched for over a year and never saw a 5 1/2" barrel model . I saw one 4 5/8" model and a few 7 1/2" models

Did you actually try calling Colt and ordering one? Or did you just look for one on dealer shelves? You must not have tried very hard.

I imagine you saw a 4¾" example of an SAA (not SSA). Rugers are 4 5/8".